looking for classic sounding acoustic guitar mic with $400 budget

[monkeyxx]

I might be able to swing $400 for a single microphone... I'm looking for the "classic" acoustic guitar sound. Dylan would be a good example, such as the song "it's all over now baby blue" just for the record, what would the "classic" mic for this purpose be, a neuman 84 or something a bit more esoteric? the purpose would be for acoustic guitar based recordings, with that instrument and my human voice being the bulk of the sonics.

I was looking at a single Peluso CEMC6, but also considering trying to find a used mic that costs more new, something like a Josephson C42, AT4051, or things like that. perhaps even a large diaphragm condenser? something like the Red Type B? but I'd like to get a small diaphragm mic just to have something different than what I have now, and for ease of manhandling/placement. I don't like the sound clips I've heard of the MXL603 or studio projects C4, too thin and hard. the Oktava mk012 sounds I've heard are better, but I still hear a little "funkiness" in there that I'd like to be able to spend my way past with this next purchase, although I've only heard one sample of that mic on acoustic guitar, a small sample size.

I tend to record vocals and guitar at the same time, so there's a bit of bassy bleed from the guitar into the vocal mic (an audio technica 3035), which I usually like, to a degree. the standby acoustic mic is a studio projects B1, but I'm looking for the next level, within monetary reason...something in the "professional" or "classic" realm. something that will sort of knock my socks off would be great. I hope I'm not hoping too much. any experience with any mics in this general price range would be great to hear. double duty on drum miking would be cool, but that's not a dealbreaker.

[jmikeperkins]

I have spend years and thousands of dollars trying to mic acoustic guitars and there is no simple answer because it depends SO MUCH on the guitar itself and to a lesser extent the player, the style of music and the room you are recording in. Your goal should be to use as little eq as possible and try and get the sound you want from the choice of the mic and where you put it. I usually use a pair one aimed near the bridge and the other aimed near the 12th fret. Sound comes out from all over an acoustic guitar and not just out of the soundhole.

Which pair to use is the question. I have a pair of Neumann KM74 mics (similiar to KM84), a pair of newer Neumann KM184 mics, a pair of Earthworks SR 77 mics, and a pair of EV RE200 condenser mics. With this variety, I can usually find something that works. The Neumann KM74 is usually the first one I try. Its a somewhat rare mic, but has the same capsule as the KM84 and sounds similiar. If that sounds too dull, I will try the Neumann KM184 which is brighter and gives a bit of a "zing" to the sound. You would think that would be enough, but some acoustic guitars sound bad (too muddy) with ANY Neumann and require something totally different. I will usually then try the Earthworks mics as they are much flatter and have a different sound. Sometimes this works, but sometimes the guitar is still too dull to work in a dense mix. Finally, I will go to the EV RE200 mic which is a small diaphram condenser with a really hyped high end response. Sometimes that is the ticket (and again it sometimes sounds horrible).

I know this is not a simple answer to your question, but there is no simple answer. It just depends. If you can afford it, the vintage Neumann KM84 is probably the best overall acoustic guitar mic but that is not to say it will always work best.

J. Mike Perkins
jmikeperkins.com myspace.com/jmikeperkins

[flail19]

I concur with everything that J. Mike wrote. As another suggestion I would look at the Rode NT4. It has a fixed 90 Deg. X/Y configuration and matched stereo condenser capsules. I even think Bruce Sweiden uses this mic. I use the Josephson C42 and like it fine. Sometimes the MXL 603's make it into the work flow in stereo pair if the guitar calls for it. You did say that you did not like the sound of the 603's but how will they sound on your guitar? I know it's a terrible thing to admit on Gearslutz but the AKG C1000 has been a good mic for me on acoustic guitar. all of these should be in your price range.

It really depends. It's nice to have a few tools to do the right job. Good luck and have fun

[axisdreamer]

I'm starting to use a Shure SM81 for acoustic.They are smoother on the top end then the oktava 012 and they also have bass roll off settings on the mic and fall in your budget.

Good luck to you !

Stace

[max cooper]

Damned if that AT 4047 doesn't do an amazing job of recording dreadnought guitars.

[mookie]

this is a good thread. i'm wondering about how best to mic my dreadnought myself... a mono rather than stereo source will probably work best for my setup...
i have a 414 which sounds pretty good, but i'm wondering where is best to place it. part of the rub for me too is that i like to play and sing at the same time, so bleed is an issue (omni sounds good, but may pick up too much vox).
what pattern do y'all usually use for acoustic guitar (omni, cardioid, hypercardioid, etc.) and why? also, with a big guitar, do you roll off or attenuate lows, and/or do you pull some mids out? i like generally a full sound because the acoustic is often the only or main instrument in the mix.

[Sara_tonin]

For the price, I'd say an AT 4033, or 4040 for the LDC
Sounds great on acoustic guitar and other string instruments!

[monkeyxx]

thanks for all the replies. I have become a lot more conscious of room acoustics, and have put a plywood sheet over my carpet in the back of my (bed)room(studio), and after messing around a little, found that sitting facing a certain corner made the guitar sound best. I HAVEN'T tried running cables up the stairs into the really live sounding rooms up there (wood floors, higher ceilings, minimal furnishing) but it seems like it might be worthwile. I should also mention that the guitars I'm working with are probably a bit on the dark side of things, I find myself wanting more clarity when I play back my tracks, yet I don't seem to like that "hyped" mic sound from other people's clips, for example the 603s and C4s. a little presence boost in EQ seems to work OK sometimes in my own use with the mics I own. I've also found I like heavier strings for a fatter sound, but the dark guitar is not very forgiving of the loss of trebles. the ATM450 I tried is better on the clarity than my B1, but it somehow seems a bit "cold" overall...whatever that means, that's all I can muster. I don't know if any of this affects future input, but keep it coming!

[monkeyxx]

the 4033 looks pretty nice, and I like the sound clip provided by audio technica, better than any of their other LDC clips on acoustic (4050, 4047, 4040). I'm thinking it might flatter my dark guitars too. I like that it's bright sounding, but still maintains a "softness" or "sweetness"

I wish I could hear the Josephson and Peluso and SM81 in action!

I also really like the Listening Sessions clip of the 414 B-ULS on their acoustic guitar, my favorite of any of that bunch of clips, I like the "sweetness" of it.

I guess I just realized I could strech a bit and put a used KM184 roughly into my price range...hmm I wonder?

[flail19]

Originally Posted by monkeyxx

I wish I could hear the Josephson

Order one from Mercenary and try it out. If it does not work for you I'm sure you can return it.

[Acoustic Cloud]

Get at least one 012.

That will leave you more for a LDC from someone. Then you can mix them if you desire. The stock 012 is very nice on acoustic. MUCH better IMO than a 4033. They both have that same "grainyness or softness", but the 012 is a better grainy.

[RusRant]

First the name Dylan came up, and I'm a Dylan fiend so I'm in. I would also recommend the NT4. Very cool mic IMO.

[flail19]

Hey Monkey check this out

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=102137

[88fingerz]

I like a pair of MXL 603's for this application.

Beautiful sound on a quality guitar.

[Acoustic Cloud]

Originally Posted by 88fingerz

I like a pair of MXL 603's for this application.

Beautiful sound on a quality guitar.

nuff said.......

[JeffSanders]

I love the AT 4041 and the Peluso CEMC6 for acoustic guitar!!

Next on my list is an OktavaMod-modded mk012...

[2nd Kid]

Check out Violet Design's Black Knight mic. http://www.violet-design.ee/index.ph...d=73&Itemid=99
One of the best mics on acoustic guitar that I've heard.

[kissingonstilts]

I've been experimenting with this for years, and, cost notwithstanding, I've been the most comfortable with KM84s, KM86s, Gefell UM900, Korby FET47, and Schoeps CMC6/MK4 (or MK21). But, many of these are more than $400.

For a long while I used a pair of 84s, but wound up going to one (for both guitar and voice) - it was clearer and more beautiful. Much experimentation with placement was ingredient into my comfort level with the sound, and, of course, a room that allowed some bloom.

The 184 hasn't as much dimension to my ears, but it works. I've tried the Audio Technica line, B&Ks (now DPA), Earthworks, TLM170, 414s, Sennheisers and Octavas, among others (though I haven't tried the Josephson and have heard good things about it), but my experience tells me that something of the family I mentioned in the first paragraph might work nicely. The closest to your budget would be a used 84 or 184. Enjoy the experimentation!

[mark714]

I'd suggest you find a used AT4051 for $300ish. If you can't they aren't that much over 400 brand new. They are solid, trustworthy and just plain work on lots of sources without being flashy. Without hearing your guitar and noting your price range it's one of the safer choices you can make.

[Baz]

AA CM54 for $175 incl omni head.

[paulneedles]

try an ev635a for a sixth of your budget - condensers won't give you that classic 60s acoustic guitar sound, ribbons are a bit hit or miss on acoustics. get a brick or something nice to put it through.

[Mike Derrick]

Originally Posted by Baz

AA CM54 for $175 incl omni head.

Baz, can you detail your experience with this mic, and give a ballpark idea to the kind of quality of this Advanced Audio mic, comparison thoughts welcome, thanks.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Mike Derrick

Baz, can you detail your experience with this mic, and give a ballpark idea to the kind of quality of this Advanced Audio mic, comparison thoughts welcome, thanks.

Actually, I've never personally used this mic but I've had extensive conversations with Dave of AA Mics and he advised me that everyone that's using them are quite happy. A local sound stage studio here in N Van recently bought a pair, as well another local studio..Apparently they really shine if you go for the Peluso capsule upgrade - I can't remember what that costs though.

you can read more by going HERE (its a very poorly laid out site) and navigating to the mic section. These guys import the mics from China and all the AA mics listed are built by the FEILO company, which also makes sE mics..The bodies look very similar to Peluso's CMC6's so I wouldn't be surprised if they make the amp bodies for Peluso also.

[drBill]

I don't think I saw anyone recommend an akg C451/CK1 cap. A truly classic sound (as long as you don't mind a little briteness) and they are tried and true. A used EB model can be had for well under $400. A true bargain IMO.

[themaidsroom]

play your songs live for two or three months
go to a studio with a great tape recorder, console and mics and record
them one day for $400 - that will sound classic


in my opinion, as someone who has unfortunately bought and subsequently sold many
of the mics mentioned in this thread : if you work at it and do it right, the tape will be
more valuable than any mic mentioned on this thread, certainly more dylanesque


just my 2 cents
be well


- jack

[Baz]

Originally Posted by themaidsroom

play your songs live for two or three months
go to a studio with a great tape recorder, console and mics and record
them one day for $400 - that will sound classic

just my 2 cents
be well


- jack

While I wouldn't disagree with this good advise, the fact is that all the intangibles of the: great recorder (converters) , console and sound of a pro room may skew your perspective a bit. I'd prolly lean more towards renting some decent mics and using them with your front end and space, to truly get a bead on whats going to work for you.

[monkeyxx]

Originally Posted by themaidsroom

play your songs live for two or three months
go to a studio with a great tape recorder, console and mics and record
them one day for $400 - that will sound classic


in my opinion, as someone who has unfortunately bought and subsequently sold many
of the mics mentioned in this thread : if you work at it and do it right, the tape will be
more valuable than any mic mentioned on this thread, certainly more dylanesque


just my 2 cents
be well


- jack

I gotta say, this is cool advice... there's hardly anything you can do better for a song than playing it for audiences... I don't think any amount of private practice and tinkering can do for a song what sharing it live can... look at radiohead and their mini-european tours while they're writing for new albums.

on the other hand, I am terrified at the idea of sitting in a studio with some guys I've never met with their eyes on the clock and their tried and true methods. I like to record on my own time, all the time, at my own pace, with my own methods and experiments, it's a big part of how I write songs. I just want to hear better sounds than I'm getting with my entry level equipment, kick it up a small notch. I'm saving up for a sytek preamp and a newer firewire interface. I do really appreciate the otherwordly sounds that come out of professional engineers, studios, and producers... I think it will play more of a role when I'm more of a professional musician, if that ever comes.

by the way, I ended up going with the AT4033, and for now, it seems to be working nicely. I think it will shine even more when I get that preamp. wish I could have a pair of neumanns for my home... someday?

[DeeDrive]

If you're looking for a natural, classic sound, have you tried a 57? Excellent for a very pleasant, non-hyped sound. If you've got one lying around, definitely give it a try. Personally, I was shocked when I first heard how good it sounded.