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3rd January 2007, 05:59 AM
| #1 |
| Gear Head  Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: suburban Philly, PA
Posts: 53
|  a low-cost 4-mic drum situation and your opinions on my choices So the first thread I posted since joining GS was about the Samson 7-kit budget drum mic package. Then I heard some good stuff about the 8kit also by Samson. I'm thinking the Samson is a bad idea. The old adage keeps ringing in my head, "you get what you pay for." Specifically, I bought an LCD TV over the weekend that died three days later, so I took it back and bought a same size tube TV. Can't go wrong with old technology, plus the picture is way better for movies, but I digress. So.... I'm thinking this would be an ideal acoustic drum miking situation: - AKG D112 for the inner kick (used or new, I don't care) - Shure SM57 or 58 for snare (I currently have a 58), or used as a front-of-kick mic if the overheads pick up everything... - a pair of Rode NT5s (great reviews everywhere) for overheads This would set me back about $700. I think this might be really ideal though, sound-wise. The kit I'd be miking is a Yamaha Stage Custom Advantage, 4-piece with Zildjian Avedis cymbals all around. It's tuned great and all is well. The room I'll be recording in is a 20x9 space with an 8 or 9-ft ceiling. Wood paneling walls and thin carpet (so the room definitely resonates). Kit is in the center of the room, by my desk. Opinions? Thoughts? Thanks to all who have responded to my previous posts about snare sounds and the Samson mic package... your input really helped! - Chris in suburban Philly |
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3rd January 2007, 07:49 AM
| #2 | |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Austin
Posts: 1,443
 | use the 58 on snare D112 is good and the Beta52 sounds nice too. if you wanted to up it to 900, you could get an RE20 instead of the D112...that's a nice upgrade. I'll +1 the NT5s myself, they're my go-to overheads. but cheap and easy, you're in the clear on this one.
__________________ "its like talking to a door to door salesman, but with a filthy mouth and a f*cked up view of male and female relations" - Tuna Butter on Pimps Quote:
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3rd January 2007, 08:02 AM
| #3 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: East Coast, Sweden
Posts: 1,142
| I like the idea of using few mics for the drums. I think people nowadays use too many in general. Things were better back in the day when they had smaller kits and fewer mics. I like that sound more than the modern type sound where there's one or two mics on every piece of the kit. Hell, they've probably got a mic on the stool as well. Things just blend together a lot better the old way. Not a helpful post, I know. But I like it that you use only 4 mics.
__________________  (click to see me and my work) |
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3rd January 2007, 08:11 AM
| #4 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: May 2006 Location: Montreal, Québec
Posts: 1,191
 | My personal choice would be Audix i5 on snare (you'll never regret this one trust me !), beta 52 on kick, and a pair of LDCs or Ribbons on overheads. |
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3rd January 2007, 08:33 AM
| #5 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Toronto
Posts: 611
| I like your choices. But I would trade in your 58 for a 57. I was told they are the same mic on the inside, but I hear WAY too much of a difference to believe that. |
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3rd January 2007, 11:00 AM
| #6 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Texas
Posts: 1,835
| SM 81 overheads 1 or 2 Audix i5 snare D6 kick That would do you nice. You can also do i5's on toms. I also had nice drums sounds with 57's as overheads, this was 5 years ago or so... I listen back to those recordings and the drums sounded fantastic. Much bigger sounds in my opinon than alot of stuff I do today... I might try the 57's again on overheads soon. I just havent thought of it in a while |
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3rd January 2007, 02:19 PM
| #7 |
| Gear Head Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: suburban Philly, PA
Posts: 53
|  hmmmm The SM81's are out of my price range unfortunately... Audix looks very nice... like a 57, but better? The other kick mic recommendations I haven't price-checked yet but... I want to stay under $700... ideally $550 if I can get everything used. Do you guys use a compressor routed to the mixer... I know pre-amps are absolutely crucial for good sound but I can't afford them. Who knows if I ever will be able to. But do you guys use a basic compressor/limiter/gate...? If so, can you recommend one for under $200? Thanks so much! :) -Chris |
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3rd January 2007, 02:34 PM
| #8 |
| Gear nut  Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 75
| +1 on the i5. You will be fine with what you have suggested. It comes down to spending time with placement to find the sweet spots, tuning and room treatment. Don't worry about the preamps so much. The placement, tuning and room are more important. I use a Soundcraft M series mixer to track drums, (cheapie mixer but with decent preamps based on their Ghost pre), and get more business because of our drum sound than any other reason. |
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3rd January 2007, 02:38 PM
| #9 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New England
Posts: 982
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3rd January 2007, 03:02 PM
| #10 | |
| Gear addict  Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Chicago
Posts: 460
| Quote:
1. Go with a 57 on snare...you can also use it on amps, horns, ect... 2. Check out a Shure Beta 52 on kick, it will be more versatile in the long run 3. NT5s are great, nice choice | |
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3rd January 2007, 03:16 PM
| #11 | |
| Gear Head Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: suburban Philly, PA
Posts: 53
|  Ok... hmmm D112 at $220.... Audix D2 at $200 and lower... Beta 52 at around $150....This is a tough choice. Very. I'm sold on the 57, i5 and NT5 pair. Quote:
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3rd January 2007, 03:30 PM
| #12 | |
| Gear Head Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: suburban Philly, PA
Posts: 53
| Ok... do you think these mics (I'm leaning toward the Audix D2).... would be good for indie rock/shoegazey stuff, with the occasional Jimmy Eat World-ish melodic rock sound? The Beta 52 is 50/50... some people rave, some rant.... Audix seems high marks all around.... D112 I've read is a bit "muddy"...... I'm so torn! haha. Quote:
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3rd January 2007, 03:31 PM
| #13 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: East Coast, Sweden
Posts: 1,142
| What about the Beyer M99 on kick? Very underrated mic.
__________________ (click to see me and my work) |
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3rd January 2007, 03:39 PM
| #14 | |
| Gear Head Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: suburban Philly, PA
Posts: 53
| Quote:
-Chris | |
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3rd January 2007, 03:58 PM
| #15 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New England
Posts: 982
| Do a search on D112 (& the Audix too) I think you'll find the general consensus is that the D112 takes careful placement to get what you want, but is a standard mic (gets lots of use). The Audix is a great for a quick set-up but is only good for one sound (albeit a great one). These are my impressions based on past searches... YMMV I think the D112 sounds the more vestatile of the two and thus a better choice if you have few mics. |
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3rd January 2007, 05:38 PM
| #16 |
| Gear Head  Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 56
| Cheaper than the D112 and in my opinion much better is the CAD KBM 412 http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...one?sku=270774 Here at school many of us prefer it as the inside kick over the 112, and for the price you can't beat it! And with the extra money maybe you could get an RE20 for bottom snare or outside kick. |
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3rd January 2007, 05:43 PM
| #17 | |
| Gear Head Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: suburban Philly, PA
Posts: 53
| ehhh $50? I'm scared.... haha. Who makes the RE20? Quote:
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3rd January 2007, 05:48 PM
| #18 |
| Gear Head Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: suburban Philly, PA
Posts: 53
| re20... nah The RE20 is $400, and why would i want a huge beast like that miking my snare side head or the front of the kick? haha. ;) I'm consdiering this $50 CAD mic... but... i dunno... i'm still weary. convince me with some audio samples! -Chris |
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3rd January 2007, 06:03 PM
| #19 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: El-Lay
Posts: 1,125
| drum mics I think the original post is fine -57 -d112 -nt5's Exactly what I use on my DW kit. Sounds great! Different tunings on the heads and mic placement give you versatility, no matter what style of music! You can always add a 57 to the beater side of the kick to add the "fwack" that the new d112's lack. Experiment turning the d112 180 degrees around, interesting sound. For the price the NT 5's are also versatile for other applications. Can always upgrade later to RE 20, 421's or anything else that "pleases" your ears.......good luck!
__________________ "first guy to the bridge gets the solo" ____________________________ "'I'm having a bad feeling about my intuition" www.poodiemusic.com |
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3rd January 2007, 06:51 PM
| #20 |
| Gear Head Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: suburban Philly, PA
Posts: 53
|  D112 ok, regarding the D112 support.... how easy/hard is it to get that nice "click" in the kick sound, if i need it... for rock recordings... i really like that bass click as well as the "woomp." :) -chris |
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3rd January 2007, 06:57 PM
| #21 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: El-Lay
Posts: 1,125
| Quote:
SM 57 inside the kick close to the batter head OR placed outside the batter head about 6" to a foot away from the beater. Only problem, make sure the pedal doesn't squeek!
__________________ "first guy to the bridge gets the solo" ____________________________ "'I'm having a bad feeling about my intuition" www.poodiemusic.com | |
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3rd January 2007, 07:01 PM
| #22 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Lone Star
Posts: 459
| What I would do... for your budget. Kick - EV 868 - more natural, easier to place, bigger sounding, way more versatile IMNSHO than any of the kick mics mentioned - similar price range. O.H. - If you already have a decent cardioid LDC you are using for vocals, consider getting another of that same mic for OH. Also, a decent matched pair of Russian Oktava Mc-012 mics can be had for around 300-350. I prefer them greatly to the Rode mics - especially if you are going with a minimal setup that relies heavily on the OH mics for the overall drum capture. Snare- 57 or I5... although I've never used an I5, gonna get one eventually myself. Never heard anything bad about it. Maybe it's great. The only thing you might consider is that you would also want your snare mic for guitar overdubs... etc. Don't know how the I5 would respond to that. total spent - about 600. cheers,
__________________ "You know how it is... technology is a cradle that swings above a grave." -- myself |
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3rd January 2007, 07:24 PM
| #23 | |
| Gear Head Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: suburban Philly, PA
Posts: 53
| i love your signature. haha. yeah, the one i use for lead vocals is an AKG C2000B LDC. It's not the greatest mic ever, not even close, really... so buying another for an overhead, I'm thinking... nah. Can't find oktava's on ebay... EV mic seems like a decent deal, though... Quote:
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3rd January 2007, 07:31 PM
| #24 |
| Gear Head Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: suburban Philly, PA
Posts: 53
| nevermind. found the oktava's on ebay... |
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3rd January 2007, 09:35 PM
| #25 | |
| Gear addict  Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wisconsin, US
Posts: 354
| Quote:
I like the 57 on snare a lot. I will typically also mic the top with a 421 and sometimes the bottom with a 57, sm7 or beta 57. Almost anything on the bottom works for me when I am just looking to add the crack or snap to the snare. I like the 421 for a bit of a darker or fuller sound (I will typically position the mic differently than the 57 to make sure I have a different option.) At mix time I choose one of the top mics and in somecases blend a bit of the bottom. I have not used the Rodes, but I have the Oktavas and am happy with them. Nice thing about the 57 and D112 (and to some extent the Beta 52) is that they will all hold value so if you get them at a decent price you really have nothing to lose. I would look to ebay for all of them. I got my D112 for $135 and my Beta 52 for under $100. It takes some patience, but if you keep looking you will find the deals. | |
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4th January 2007, 04:01 AM
| #26 | |
| Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 56
| Quote:
A friend showed me once that if you want real clicky, tape a quarter to where the beater hits on the head. Havn't tried it but something to experiment with. I can get you a couple different files using the CAD, I suggest definetly researching it on here before you spend 200 on a D112 if you're looking to save some money. Hope any of this helps. | |
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4th January 2007, 02:42 PM
| #27 | |
| Gear Head Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: suburban Philly, PA
Posts: 53
| yes, please show me some audio of the CAD. i'm definitely trying to save money left and right. what would you recommend for a click mic? Audix i5 on kick? SM57? Quote:
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4th January 2007, 03:18 PM
| #28 |
| Gear maniac  Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Atlanta
Posts: 273
| I don't care for the sm57 at all. D6 on kick m201 on snare studioprojects c4 pair on overheads or use the sp B1 pair all you will need for quite some time. |
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4th January 2007, 03:27 PM
| #29 | |
| Gear addict Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wisconsin, US
Posts: 354
| Quote:
My understanding is that the way the big boys get the nu metal kick click is typically through replacing with a sample or blending with a sample. If you really want to get it all acoustically with mics I personally would suggest trying the D112 or an SM57. I own those mics (along with a Beta 52 which may be too full of a sound for your application) and have tried a lot of different micing set ups including micing the beater side, two mics in the drum.... However, since I do not do heavy music, I am not the best to answer your questions, but I am an avid reader at this site and did a lot of reading specifically about drums and frankly, I do not think you are being pointed in the right direction here. Here are a few threads that might apply. (I do not mean to be a jerk and just say "use search," but having followed this thread a bit I cannot help but to think you could find your answer posted here somewhere already. Some guys who have posted some great stuff about drums include (but are not limited to) Fletcher (here and at the mercenary site,) Recorderman, and Heinz. Look for their posts, they appear to all speak from personal experience, not hearsay. Warren Dent is also a wealth of knowledge and shares a lot here. Anyway, here is some reading for you. http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=17702 http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=57565 http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=32075 http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=101353 http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=69022 http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=99005 http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=84919 Hope this helps! Good Luck. Jim | |
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4th January 2007, 03:48 PM
| #30 | |
| Gear Head Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: suburban Philly, PA
Posts: 53
|  Hey Jim... I'm definitely not looking for the nu-metal click. I just like a subtle click in the kick. The music I'm doing is mellow indie rock and occasionally Jimmy Eat World-ish emo rock stuff. I'll check out the links you provided, definitely... thanks so much for your help. :) -Chris Quote:
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