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a low-cost 4-mic drum situation and your opinions on my choices
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themixtape
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3rd January 2007
Old 3rd January 2007
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Red face a low-cost 4-mic drum situation and your opinions on my choices

So the first thread I posted since joining GS was about the Samson 7-kit budget drum mic package. Then I heard some good stuff about the 8kit also by Samson.

I'm thinking the Samson is a bad idea. The old adage keeps ringing in my head, "you get what you pay for." Specifically, I bought an LCD TV over the weekend that died three days later, so I took it back and bought a same size tube TV. Can't go wrong with old technology, plus the picture is way better for movies, but I digress.

So.... I'm thinking this would be an ideal acoustic drum miking situation:


- AKG D112 for the inner kick (used or new, I don't care)
- Shure SM57 or 58 for snare (I currently have a 58), or used as a front-of-kick mic if the overheads pick up everything...
- a pair of Rode NT5s (great reviews everywhere) for overheads

This would set me back about $700. I think this might be really ideal though, sound-wise.

The kit I'd be miking is a Yamaha Stage Custom Advantage, 4-piece with Zildjian Avedis cymbals all around. It's tuned great and all is well. The room I'll be recording in is a 20x9 space with an 8 or 9-ft ceiling. Wood paneling walls and thin carpet (so the room definitely resonates). Kit is in the center of the room, by my desk.

Opinions? Thoughts?

Thanks to all who have responded to my previous posts about snare sounds and the Samson mic package... your input really helped!

- Chris in suburban Philly
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3rd January 2007
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use the 58 on snare D112 is good and the Beta52 sounds nice too.

if you wanted to up it to 900, you could get an RE20 instead of the D112...that's a nice upgrade.

I'll +1 the NT5s myself, they're my go-to overheads.

but cheap and easy, you're in the clear on this one.
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3rd January 2007
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I like the idea of using few mics for the drums. I think people nowadays use too many in general. Things were better back in the day when they had smaller kits and fewer mics. I like that sound more than the modern type sound where there's one or two mics on every piece of the kit. Hell, they've probably got a mic on the stool as well. Things just blend together a lot better the old way.

Not a helpful post, I know. But I like it that you use only 4 mics.
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My personal choice would be Audix i5 on snare (you'll never regret this one trust me !), beta 52 on kick, and a pair of LDCs or Ribbons on overheads.
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3rd January 2007
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I like your choices. But I would trade in your 58 for a 57. I was told they are the same mic on the inside, but I hear WAY too much of a difference to believe that.
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3rd January 2007
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SM 81 overheads 1 or 2
Audix i5 snare
D6 kick

That would do you nice.

You can also do i5's on toms.

I also had nice drums sounds with 57's as overheads, this was 5 years ago or so... I listen back to those recordings and the drums sounded fantastic. Much bigger sounds in my opinon than alot of stuff I do today... I might try the 57's again on overheads soon. I just havent thought of it in a while
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3rd January 2007
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Thumbs up hmmmm

The SM81's are out of my price range unfortunately...

Audix looks very nice... like a 57, but better?

The other kick mic recommendations I haven't price-checked yet but...

I want to stay under $700... ideally $550 if I can get everything used.

Do you guys use a compressor routed to the mixer... I know pre-amps are absolutely crucial for good sound but I can't afford them. Who knows if I ever will be able to.

But do you guys use a basic compressor/limiter/gate...? If so, can you recommend one for under $200?

Thanks so much!

-Chris
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3rd January 2007
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+1 on the i5.

You will be fine with what you have suggested. It comes down to spending time with placement to find the sweet spots, tuning and room treatment.

Don't worry about the preamps so much. The placement, tuning and room are more important. I use a Soundcraft M series mixer to track drums, (cheapie mixer but with decent preamps based on their Ghost pre), and get more business because of our drum sound than any other reason.
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3rd January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape View Post
- AKG D112 for the inner kick (used or new, I don't care)
- Shure SM57 or 58 for snare (I currently have a 58), or used as a front-of-kick mic if the overheads pick up everything...
- a pair of Rode NT5s (great reviews everywhere) for overheads
[clip]

The kit I'd be miking is a Yamaha Stage Custom Advantage, 4-piece with Zildjian Avedis cymbals all around. It's tuned great and all is well.
My exact set-up (kit & mics) for the drum room I just completed! (I mean just barely.... I hung the last broadband panel last night!)
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3rd January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape View Post
- AKG D112 for the inner kick (used or new, I don't care)
- Shure SM57 or 58 for snare (I currently have a 58), or used as a front-of-kick mic if the overheads pick up everything...
- a pair of Rode NT5s (great reviews everywhere) for overheads
This is probably going to work, for the most part.

1. Go with a 57 on snare...you can also use it on amps, horns, ect...
2. Check out a Shure Beta 52 on kick, it will be more versatile in the long run
3. NT5s are great, nice choice
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3rd January 2007
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Talking

Ok... hmmm D112 at $220.... Audix D2 at $200 and lower... Beta 52 at around $150....This is a tough choice. Very.

I'm sold on the 57, i5 and NT5 pair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRadio View Post
This is probably going to work, for the most part.

1. Go with a 57 on snare...you can also use it on amps, horns, ect...
2. Check out a Shure Beta 52 on kick, it will be more versatile in the long run
3. NT5s are great, nice choice
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3rd January 2007
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Ok... do you think these mics (I'm leaning toward the Audix D2).... would be good for indie rock/shoegazey stuff, with the occasional Jimmy Eat World-ish melodic rock sound?

The Beta 52 is 50/50... some people rave, some rant.... Audix seems high marks all around.... D112 I've read is a bit "muddy"......

I'm so torn! haha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape View Post
Ok... hmmm D112 at $220.... Audix D2 at $200 and lower... Beta 52 at around $150....This is a tough choice. Very.

I'm sold on the 57, i5 and NT5 pair.
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3rd January 2007
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What about the Beyer M99 on kick? Very underrated mic.
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3rd January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petsematary View Post
What about the Beyer M99 on kick? Very underrated mic.
Way too high, price-wise. I'm looking to not spend more than $200 per mic...

-Chris
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Do a search on D112 (& the Audix too)

I think you'll find the general consensus is that the D112 takes careful placement to get what you want, but is a standard mic (gets lots of use). The Audix is a great for a quick set-up but is only good for one sound (albeit a great one). These are my impressions based on past searches... YMMV

I think the D112 sounds the more vestatile of the two and thus a better choice if you have few mics.
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3rd January 2007
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Cheaper than the D112 and in my opinion much better is the CAD KBM 412
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...one?sku=270774
Here at school many of us prefer it as the inside kick over the 112, and for the price you can't beat it!

And with the extra money maybe you could get an RE20 for bottom snare or outside kick.
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ehhh

$50?

I'm scared.... haha.

Who makes the RE20?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sara_tonin View Post
Cheaper than the D112 and in my opinion much better is the CAD KBM 412
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...one?sku=270774
Here at school many of us prefer it as the inside kick over the 112, and for the price you can't beat it!

And with the extra money maybe you could get an RE20 for bottom snare or outside kick.
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3rd January 2007
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re20... nah

The RE20 is $400, and why would i want a huge beast like that miking my snare side head or the front of the kick? haha.

I'm consdiering this $50 CAD mic... but... i dunno... i'm still weary. convince me with some audio samples!

-Chris
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3rd January 2007
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drum mics

I think the original post is fine

-57
-d112
-nt5's

Exactly what I use on my DW kit. Sounds great! Different tunings on the heads and mic placement give you versatility, no matter what style of music! You can always add a 57 to the beater side of the kick to add the "fwack" that the new d112's lack. Experiment turning the d112 180 degrees around, interesting sound. For the price the NT 5's are also versatile for other applications. Can always upgrade later to RE 20, 421's or anything else that "pleases" your ears.......good luck!
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3rd January 2007
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Smile D112

ok, regarding the D112 support....

how easy/hard is it to get that nice "click" in the kick sound, if i need it... for rock recordings... i really like that bass click as well as the "woomp."

-chris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape View Post
ok, regarding the D112 support....

how easy/hard is it to get that nice "click" in the kick sound, if i need it... for rock recordings... i really like that bass click as well as the "woomp."

-chris


SM 57 inside the kick close to the batter head OR placed outside the batter head about 6" to a foot away from the beater. Only problem, make sure the pedal doesn't squeek!
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What I would do... for your budget.

Kick - EV 868 - more natural, easier to place, bigger sounding, way more versatile IMNSHO than any of the kick mics mentioned - similar price range.

O.H. - If you already have a decent cardioid LDC you are using for vocals, consider getting another of that same mic for OH. Also, a decent matched pair of Russian Oktava Mc-012 mics can be had for around 300-350. I prefer them greatly to the Rode mics - especially if you are going with a minimal setup that relies heavily on the OH mics for the overall drum capture.

Snare- 57 or I5... although I've never used an I5, gonna get one eventually myself. Never heard anything bad about it. Maybe it's great. The only thing you might consider is that you would also want your snare mic for guitar overdubs... etc. Don't know how the I5 would respond to that.

total spent - about 600.
cheers,
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i love your signature. haha.

yeah, the one i use for lead vocals is an AKG C2000B LDC. It's not the greatest mic ever, not even close, really... so buying another for an overhead, I'm thinking... nah.

Can't find oktava's on ebay...

EV mic seems like a decent deal, though...

Quote:
Originally Posted by meteor View Post
What I would do... for your budget.

Kick - EV 868 - more natural, easier to place, bigger sounding, way more versatile IMNSHO than any of the kick mics mentioned - similar price range.

O.H. - If you already have a decent cardioid LDC you are using for vocals, consider getting another of that same mic for OH. Also, a decent matched pair of Russian Oktava Mc-012 mics can be had for around 300-350. I prefer them greatly to the Rode mics - especially if you are going with a minimal setup that relies heavily on the OH mics for the overall drum capture.


total spent - about 600.
cheers,
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3rd January 2007
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nevermind. found the oktava's on ebay...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape View Post
nevermind. found the oktava's on ebay...
I have a D112 and a Beta 52. I like the Beta 52 more, but the D112 get's more of the click (in my experience.)

I like the 57 on snare a lot. I will typically also mic the top with a 421 and sometimes the bottom with a 57, sm7 or beta 57. Almost anything on the bottom works for me when I am just looking to add the crack or snap to the snare. I like the 421 for a bit of a darker or fuller sound (I will typically position the mic differently than the 57 to make sure I have a different option.) At mix time I choose one of the top mics and in somecases blend a bit of the bottom.

I have not used the Rodes, but I have the Oktavas and am happy with them.

Nice thing about the 57 and D112 (and to some extent the Beta 52) is that they will all hold value so if you get them at a decent price you really have nothing to lose. I would look to ebay for all of them.

I got my D112 for $135 and my Beta 52 for under $100. It takes some patience, but if you keep looking you will find the deals.
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4th January 2007
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Quote:
how easy/hard is it to get that nice "click" in the kick sound, if i need it... for rock recordings... i really like that bass click as well as the "woomp."
Usually you need two mics on kick. One inside (womp), one where the the pedal actually hits the beater (click).
A friend showed me once that if you want real clicky, tape a quarter to where the beater hits on the head. Havn't tried it but something to experiment with.
I can get you a couple different files using the CAD, I suggest definetly researching it on here before you spend 200 on a D112 if you're looking to save some money.
Hope any of this helps.
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4th January 2007
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yes, please show me some audio of the CAD. i'm definitely trying to save money left and right.

what would you recommend for a click mic? Audix i5 on kick? SM57?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sara_tonin View Post
Usually you need two mics on kick. One inside (womp), one where the the pedal actually hits the beater (click).
A friend showed me once that if you want real clicky, tape a quarter to where the beater hits on the head. Havn't tried it but something to experiment with.
I can get you a couple different files using the CAD, I suggest definetly researching it on here before you spend 200 on a D112 if you're looking to save some money.
Hope any of this helps.
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I don't care for the sm57 at all.

D6 on kick
m201 on snare
studioprojects c4 pair on overheads or use the sp B1 pair

all you will need for quite some time.
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4th January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape View Post
yes, please show me some audio of the CAD. i'm definitely trying to save money left and right.

what would you recommend for a click mic? Audix i5 on kick? SM57?
mixtape: One other suggestion for you is to do a search here on: kick drumagog

My understanding is that the way the big boys get the nu metal kick click is typically through replacing with a sample or blending with a sample.

If you really want to get it all acoustically with mics I personally would suggest trying the D112 or an SM57. I own those mics (along with a Beta 52 which may be too full of a sound for your application) and have tried a lot of different micing set ups including micing the beater side, two mics in the drum.... However, since I do not do heavy music, I am not the best to answer your questions, but I am an avid reader at this site and did a lot of reading specifically about drums and frankly, I do not think you are being pointed in the right direction here.

Here are a few threads that might apply. (I do not mean to be a jerk and just say "use search," but having followed this thread a bit I cannot help but to think you could find your answer posted here somewhere already.

Some guys who have posted some great stuff about drums include (but are not limited to) Fletcher (here and at the mercenary site,) Recorderman, and Heinz. Look for their posts, they appear to all speak from personal experience, not hearsay. Warren Dent is also a wealth of knowledge and shares a lot here.

Anyway, here is some reading for you.

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=17702

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=57565

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=32075

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=101353

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=69022

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=99005

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=84919

Hope this helps! Good Luck.

Jim
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Cool

Hey Jim... I'm definitely not looking for the nu-metal click. I just like a subtle click in the kick. The music I'm doing is mellow indie rock and occasionally Jimmy Eat World-ish emo rock stuff.

I'll check out the links you provided, definitely... thanks so much for your help.

-Chris

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdier View Post

My understanding is that the way the big boys get the nu metal kick click is typically through replacing with a sample or blending with a sample.

Jim
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