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Flex pitch, how does it stack up?
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F.M.
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#1
19th July 2013
Old 19th July 2013
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Flex pitch, how does it stack up?

Vs. Melodyne specifically. We all know it is monophonic. That's fine with me. Workflow wise it looks great. Mostly I want to know how it sounds.
#2
19th July 2013
Old 19th July 2013
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Tried it today and found it easy to use, but had little success--I was trying to tune an upright bass but there was too much bleed from other instruments in the track
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19th July 2013
Old 19th July 2013
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I use Melodyne and to be honest (and from what little time I've had with FlexTime) I'd say I prefer FlexTime, the display, the handles, the tuning bars (or whatever they are called) it all works so well.
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19th July 2013
Old 19th July 2013
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Anybody else use Flex Pitch yet? Pros and cons?
How does it sound compared to Melodyne?
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19th July 2013
Old 19th July 2013
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Being a dedicated Melodyne guy, I was skeptical of Apple's built in solution. I haven't really dug into it, but I've read reports that the algorithm doesn't sound as good as Melodyne. That's third hand Internet speak, so I wouldn't trust that opinion until I hear it for myself.

Additionally, I have the cheapo version of Melodyne which doesn't include the audio to midi function. I was pleasantly surprised to find it in the Apple plugin.
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19th July 2013
Old 19th July 2013
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silky Smoove View Post
Being a dedicated Melodyne guy, I was skeptical of Apple's built in solution. I haven't really dug into it, but I've read reports that the algorithm doesn't sound as good as Melodyne. That's third hand Internet speak, so I wouldn't trust that opinion until I hear it for myself.

Additionally, I have the cheapo version of Melodyne which doesn't include the audio to midi function. I was pleasantly surprised to find it in the Apple plugin.
Thanks for the info.
If you try it for yourself please post something here. That would be helpful.

Anybody else try it yet?
#7
19th July 2013
Old 19th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PB+J View Post
Tried it today and found it easy to use, but had little success--I was trying to tune an upright bass but there was too much bleed from other instruments in the track
Did you attempt to use an expander to isolate the bass better first? Give that a shot.
#8
19th July 2013
Old 19th July 2013
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The main problem i'm having is that there is not the note separation that Melodyne has.

Melodyne separates every note so it can be worked with and it is adjustable whereas so far it seems like Logic doesn't see every note hence it is hard to adjust every nuance you may wish to. You can use the scissors tool and separate the notes further but it is definitely not the same elegance as Melodyne.
This may come in time i don't know?
Having used Melodyne for a long long time it may just be that I'm use to that and I do find personally that the first software I use tends to be my favorite!

The sound seems relatively very good without too many artifacts probably consistent with Melodyne IMHO.
#9
19th July 2013
Old 19th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chugbry View Post
so far it seems like Logic doesn't see every note hence it is hard to adjust every nuance you may wish to.

The algorithm is suppose to be smart in that it will ignore un-pitched consonants, as you don't need to correct these. Suppose to sound better if you don't correct these.

Melodyne recognizes everything graphically, but who knows, the algorithm may ignore shifting these unpitched consonants beneath the covers... I'm not sure.
#10
19th July 2013
Old 19th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoyle View Post
The algorithm is suppose to be smart in that it will ignore un-pitched consonants, as you don't need to correct these. Suppose to sound better if you don't correct these.

Melodyne recognizes everything graphically, but who knows, the algorithm may ignore shifting these unpitched consonants beneath the covers... I'm not sure.
Yeah i see that but it would in my Op be more useful if you could change monophonic riffs etc to something different if you wanted to. I guess that would mean being able to select at any transient you wish to adjust. I'm not saying what is there isn't good at all it just could be a bit more elegant? maybe
#11
19th July 2013
Old 19th July 2013
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^
True about note separation. Sometimes two words gets one region. But you also got pitch drift on both sides of the region so you get a bit of control over these words.
But kind of the same problem did(and do still) the transient detector have when Logics 9 drumreplacement came out.
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19th July 2013
Old 19th July 2013
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If two notes get detected as one, you can split the detected note with the pencil tool. Melodyne has the same problem, and there you split with the Note Separation Tool.

Also, if a note isn't detected, you can force it to detect the note, but I'm not sure how to do that yet... but I saw it done.
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#13
20th July 2013
Old 20th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoyle View Post
If two notes get detected as one, you can split the detected note with the pencil tool. Melodyne has the same problem, and there you split with the Note Separation Tool.

Also, if a note isn't detected, you can force it to detect the note, but I'm not sure how to do that yet... but I saw it done.


you can split the detected note with the pencil tool.

Great find, really useful.
#14
20th July 2013
Old 20th July 2013
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It´s really great to have this in Logic now..I can see melodyne be used less now for me. Have not scrutinised the quality fully yet, but it seems fine to me so far..
#15
23rd July 2013
Old 23rd July 2013
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Ive used auto tune, for the past few years, so I gave the flex pitch a shot on a pretty rough vocal yesterday, and I have to admit I was impressed.

I still need more time with it, but in my experience I noticed that the vocal sounded pretty natural after tuning.

Anyone else hear that?



I take all of the above statements back. After trying to tune a legit recorded vocal, with all the frustration Flex Pitch has caused.... It needs serious work.
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#16
23rd July 2013
Old 23rd July 2013
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I like it, it's good. Sound quality is certainly competitive with AT and Melodyne and the interface is better.
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#17
23rd July 2013
Old 23rd July 2013
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Strangely... as a Melodyne missionary... I really like it so far.

I'm missing the note transition tool, but it seems the pitch drift tool can get close.

So far I'm feeling really good about it.
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#18
24th July 2013
Old 24th July 2013
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I didn´t manage to split a wrong detected not with the pencil tool.
Is there a special trick I need to do?
I tried clicking with the pencil tool on to the big fat block that represents the note that is indeed two different notes... I did that where I wanted to devide both.
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#19
24th July 2013
Old 24th July 2013
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The audio sounds fine to my ear. The integrated interface is much easier to use IMO. There might be some "power" use of Melodyne I don't need that others will take advantage of, but for general pitch correction I doubt I'll fire up Melodyne much anymore.

I haven't tried flextime for LPX yet. I thought that it was kind of cumbersome in LP9 and because of that didn't use it much. Maybe I'll go back and try that as well now that I'm hooked on flexpitch.
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24th July 2013
Old 24th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grooveminister View Post
I didn´t manage to split a wrong detected not with the pencil tool.
Is there a special trick I need to do?
I tried clicking with the pencil tool on to the big fat block that represents the note that is indeed two different notes... I did that where I wanted to devide both.
You use the scissor tool to split notes.
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24th July 2013
Old 24th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkheadedbug View Post
You use the scissor tool to split notes.
That´s what I tried next, scissor-tool didn´t work eighter in the flex-pitch graph.
Where do I have to click?
Left- or right-click? Magic Mouse here...
#22
24th July 2013
Old 24th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grooveminister View Post
That´s what I tried next, scissor-tool didn´t work eighter in the flex-pitch graph.
Where do I have to click?
Left- or right-click? Magic Mouse here...
It's kind of weird but you don't actually place the pencil directly on the waveform to get the note to re-analyze - for some reason you have to drag the line (which is a few bars to the right of the actual tool) over to the left so that IT marks a new note.
#23
24th July 2013
Old 24th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nola111 View Post
It's kind of weird but you don't actually place the pencil/scissors directly on the note to split it - for some reason you have to drag the line (which is a few bars to the right of the actual tool) over to the left so that IT splits the note or marks a new note.
I noticed this too.

Personally I'm unimpressed with flexpitch. It seems fine if you use it in a simple manner but if you want to do the cool things the toolset seems to provide it sucks.

It also doesn't play with flex time and when you enable it it will remove any region fades you have.
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24th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nola111 View Post
It's kind of weird but you don't actually place the pencil/scissors directly on the note to split it - for some reason you have to drag the line (which is a few bars to the right of the actual tool) over to the left so that IT splits the note or marks a new note.
I think you have something screwed up. I'm doing it right now by clicking with the scissors in the middle of the note.
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24th July 2013
Old 24th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkheadedbug View Post
I think you have something screwed up. I'm doing it right now by clicking with the scissors in the middle of the note.
Sorry, I was referring only to use of the pencil tool, not the scissors tool. I'll edit to clarify.
#26
24th July 2013
Old 24th July 2013
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It's great. I won't be ditching Melodyne just yet, but for most tasks Flex Pitch will suffice, and won't suffer from the clunky data management Melodyne necessarily needs.

But... Why can't Flex Pitch and Flex Time work together? Leave Flex Pitch to sort out the timing and the pitch corrections disappear - surely this is a bug, not a feature??
#27
24th July 2013
Old 24th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Orff View Post
But... Why can't Flex Pitch and Flex Time work together? Leave Flex Pitch to sort out the timing and the pitch corrections disappear - surely this is a bug, not a feature??
Not sure what you mean - Flex Pitch is basically Pitch AND Time all in one. Timing can be adjusted while in Flex Pitch mode.
#28
25th July 2013
Old 25th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Orff View Post
But... Why can't Flex Pitch and Flex Time work together? Leave Flex Pitch to sort out the timing and the pitch corrections disappear - surely this is a bug, not a feature??
Drag the note ends right or left to lengthen or shorten note lengths. It's not done the same way as Flex Time when in Flex Pitch mode, but it's there.
#29
25th July 2013
Old 25th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grooveminister View Post
That´s what I tried next, scissor-tool didn´t work eighter in the flex-pitch graph.
Where do I have to click?
Left- or right-click? Magic Mouse here...
Are you looking at the waveform at the bottom of the screen - ie the waveform editor - or are you looking at the waveform in the arrange page* ?

(*now called the Main Page)


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#30
25th July 2013
Old 25th July 2013
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I feel vari audio has the edge with pitch and stretch quality on vocal, but flex pitch seems to work better on more sources, like mono instruments as well.

Overall, after now using it for the week, I believe it's as good as melodyne, honest.

I have melodyne editor and use it in s1 and compared it head to head, and I feel logic has even better integration than celemonys ARA, so I understand why apple did it their own way.

Plus, apple have a patent already for polyphonic and word is its coming.

I'd still keep melodyne around for when I use studio one though.
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