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Putting together a sound system, need advice
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liv4ree
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#1
6th January 2013
Old 6th January 2013
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Putting together a sound system, need advice

Hi all. I'm in the process of putting together a system for our Country/Folk Trio. Currently we use.
Peavey 8600 XR (we use the built in reverb)
Pair of Peavey PR15's
Peavey PVM 22 mics for vocals
Acoustic guitars are direct, not mic'd
Acoustic/electric bass direct
Banjo direct
3 vocalists

I want something portable, (not really heavy)
Our venues range from House concerts (living rooms), Small club venues (100 to 200 people) and outdoor gigs, again 100 people.

I'm looking for a complete new setup. Front end, mics, powered speakers would be fine. A 16 channel board.
Again, we like a quick setup, and tear down (who doesn't right).
I've thought about a mackie board with built in effects, and powered speakers.
Thanks in advance...
#2
6th January 2013
Old 6th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liv4ree View Post
Hi all. I'm in the process of putting together a system for our Country/Folk Trio. Currently we use.
Peavey 8600 XR (we use the built in reverb)
Pair of Peavey PR15's
Peavey PVM 22 mics for vocals
Acoustic guitars are direct, not mic'd
Acoustic/electric ass direct
Banjo direct
3 vocalists

I want something portable, (not really heavy)
Our venues range from House concerts (living rooms), Small club venues (100 to 200 people) and outdoor gigs, again 100 people.

I'm looking for a complete new setup. Front end, mics, powered speakers would be fine. A 16 channel board.
Again, we like a quick setup, and tear down (who doesn't right).
I've thought about a mackie board with built in effects, and powered speakers.
Thanks in advance...
Be careful with that electric ass. It can clear a hall out faster than bad music.......




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6th January 2013
Old 6th January 2013
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I'm partial to Sennheiser e935 for a good stage vocal mic.. but SM58 or Beta 58 are also a smart choice

for small super compact and affordable mixer.. I've opted for the Mackie DL1608 console.. I've mixed two gigs with it so far, and for the money I'm quite pleased.


and the DLM series of Mackie speakers looks quite intriguing as well.. looking forward to trying these soon.

though, the built-in kickstand to convert into a wedge looks kinda clumsy.

for compact stage wedges that punch vocals and acoustic guitar.. I'd go with a compact Yorkville wedge.. I mix sound at local club with a very small stage and they bought two Y110M wedges, they are quite adequate for acoustic acts.. though, I wouldn't rely on them for any big ass bass.
liv4ree
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6th January 2013
Old 6th January 2013
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oops

Fixed it..
liv4ree
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6th January 2013
Old 6th January 2013
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Wow. I really like the Mackie DL1608. Very cool.
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6th January 2013
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I play folk/rock with keyboard/bass/vocals/acoustic guitar. I just bought a pair of Behringer 815 NEO speakers and while I've only done 2 gigs with them so far, I am VERY impressed with the sound, build quality and weight to power ratio. They handled an outdoor gig at a market with 1000+ people no problems, the bass carries nicely across a soccer-field sized area without a sub. They also handled an intimate acoustic New Years eve gig at a fancy shmancy golf lodge. They have a nicer, fuller sound than my old HK system that cost at least 6 times as much as them and had a sub. The girl I play with is currently taking them on a 9 date tour, and we have a more dancy outdoor gig coming up, so they'll get run through their paces and I'll let you know how they go. They sound 100% better than anything else anywhere near their price range.

Never thought I'd become a Behringer fanboi.
liv4ree
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6th January 2013
Old 6th January 2013
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Thanks Daniel.
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6th January 2013
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The new Line6 live stuff was made for gigs like yours. You could be set up in 20 minutes with two speakers and the mix head. And it's scalable for larger and smaller gigs. Everything from a coffee shop gig to a soft seater theatre.

Next I'd look at the new Mackie iPad mixer thing and some powered mains. For you being able to walk around and tweak the mix remotely would be useful, and it's a reportedly a very good platform.
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#9
7th January 2013
Old 7th January 2013
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It seems like every gig my wife's bluegrass band plays anymore has QSC powered mains. I must admit they sound great for an acoustic band.

I would look into an Allen & Heath Mixwizard mixer and a pair of QSC K12 speakers, plus a couple of powered monitor speakers. I normally don't recommend Behringer stuff, but their powered monitor speakers work well and sound fairly good for the money.

You might also research the new Yamaha powered speakers and Electro Voice Live X powered speakers. They all get glowing reviews and might save you some money.

I have ceased to be a big Mackie fan since their customer service sucks and it's impossible to get replacement parts.
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7th January 2013
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I am not a Mackie fan either, but have to say, if I was looking for a portable console, their new iPad unit would be high on my list.
I'd also second the recommendation for Sennheiser vocal mics, soooo much nicer than 58's, and QSC or RCF for powered speakers. Yamaha and Yorkville would be second choices, also good. Maybe JBL third. Not Mackie.
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8th January 2013
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Yamaha MG166CX Mixer = $430

-Best sounding / ease of use mixer in the price range. Very reliable.

(4) Whirlwind IMP 2 DI Boxes * $50 = $200

-Very common DI. Sounds great.

(3) Electro-Voice RE410 Mics * $200 = $600

-I was skeptical of these at first. But they blow away mics like the Shure SM58, Sennheiser e935, Audix OM7, etc. This mic is truly comparable to a Sennheiser e965 or a Neuman KMS 105 ($700 mics). These can often be found used on eBay for under $100.

(2) QSC K12 Speakers * $850 = $1,700
(2) RCF ART415A * $800 = $1,600

Like Ed said above these will be your best speaker options in this price range.

Also might be good to invest in a snake and new mic / speaker stands if your current ones are wearing.
liv4ree
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8th January 2013
Old 8th January 2013
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Here's what I think I've decided on. Opinions?
1 pair QSC K12's
2 QSC K12 Bags
Mackie DL1608 console
Mackie DL1608 Bag
3 Sennheiser e935
Ipad 64GB
2 Yamaha MSR100 8" Powered Speaker monitors

Thanks everyone for your help..
#13
8th January 2013
Old 8th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liv4ree View Post
Here's what I think I've decided on. Opinions?
1 pair QSC K12's
2 QSC K12 Bags
Mackie DL1608 console
Mackie DL1608 Bag
3 Sennheiser e935
Ipad 64GB
2 Yamaha MSR100 8" Powered Speaker monitors

Thanks everyone for your help..
I think you'll love it. Should sound great, and a pretty classy little rig, I must say.
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8th January 2013
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I prefer the JBL PRX615 or 612's
For mains. Lighter than the QSC's and less HF hyped. A bit warmer sounding especially better suited for acoustic instruments. The grills on the QSC's dent easily. PRX grills are very rugged in comparison. I use the PRX stuff myself and very pleased with them.

The DL1608 is cool. I want one myself. I have heard great things from a few people that I know that have used them.

Sennheiser 935.....good mic's also.
You will need a wifi router too if you want to use the dl1608 with the iPad remotely.
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8th January 2013
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QSC k12s are great speakers. I don't know if I'd trust them to run a bass through for outdoor gigs without a sub though. If it's quite a small outdoor area it might be okay. It won't be as full sounding as good 15"s, but it might be okay. In my personal experience 15" powered speakers with some good power behind them are worth their weight in gold if you're trying to run a bass and avoid having to lug sub/subs around. I love the rest of your gear choices. DL1608 looks great. We're grabbing one for our summer gigs.
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8th January 2013
Old 8th January 2013
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I used a K12 system a few weeks ago - 2 x K12 tops and 2 x K Subs (I think the subs are 2 x 12"??) - anyway, it was a very good system and I had no problem with it whatsoever - very little EQ needed, pop/rock 150 punters pub type gig, good punchy sound.

@Daniel Munro: I agree with what you are saying about 12" vs 15"...I'd generally go for the latter if no subs, but I haven't heard the K12's on their own, so I can't really comment.
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liv4ree
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9th January 2013
Old 9th January 2013
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Ok. you guys talked me into it. I'll go for the QSC KW153.
Another question. Should I use a direct box on the acoustic/electric guitars and bass? The pickups have batteries. I've never used direct boxes for them before. Just wondered if they would sound any better with direct boxes.
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9th January 2013
Old 9th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liv4ree View Post
Ok. you guys talked me into it. I'll go for the QSC KW153.
Another question. Should I use a direct box on the acoustic/electric guitars and bass? The pickups have batteries. I've never used direct boxes for them before. Just wondered if they would sound any better with direct boxes.

Usually, the guitars sound worse with DI. Bass is a toss-up - mostly it depends on the PA system.



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9th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liv4ree View Post
Ok. you guys talked me into it. I'll go for the QSC KW153.
Another question. Should I use a direct box on the acoustic/electric guitars and bass? The pickups have batteries. I've never used direct boxes for them before. Just wondered if they would sound any better with direct boxes.
Direct boxes as opposed to what? Mic'ing them?
Mics almost always sound better on acoustic guitars, but feedback in the monitors is a problem, as is movement by the guitar player. Usually, both DI and mic are used, and mixed as needed per situation. Radial makes good DI's. I'd avoid anything Behringer, or other cheap models like IMP.
Bass however almost always sounds better DI'd than mic'ed, although here again both are usually used, and allocated as needed. But DI on bass is always a good starting point.
If your instrument pick-ups are active, then get passive DI's, and vice versa.
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9th January 2013
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I would not skimp on the DI's if you choose to use them. I would get Radial JDI's or the like.
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9th January 2013
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I think I may have confused everyone with my question. Both acoustics have active pickups. As does the acoustic/electric bass. (they have 9volt batteries).
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9th January 2013
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How have you been running the guitar so far?




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9th January 2013
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Most of the acoustic acts I run sound for use LR Baggs Para DI's for guitar and bass. I like them a lot better than passive or active standard DI's because they are totally adjustable as far as tone and volume.

A guitar with a pickup, regardless of being active or piezo, needs a DI typically to get to the mixer.
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9th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liv4ree View Post
I think I may have confused everyone with my question. Both acoustics have active pickups. As does the acoustic/electric bass. (they have 9volt batteries).
Or you may have been confused by the answers, no offense.
A good DI will provide the proper impedance or load for both the pickups, and the mixing console, and allow longer cable runs, and give you a split for an amp or tuner without having to unplug or re-patch. Yes, you can simply plug straight into the console with a guitar cord, if the console has 1/4" ins, but it is not the professional way to do it.
If your pickups have batteries, they are active, and I'd use passive DI's on them. HTH.
liv4ree
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10th January 2013
Old 10th January 2013
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Thanks edva. I thought that I had confused folks here when I saw someone asking about micing the acoustics. I'll check out the Radial JDI's.
Again, I thank everyone for their help. You all are great.
liv4ree
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10th January 2013
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Another question. Where we don't have drums. But we do have bass. Will the QSC KW153 be sufficient? Or should I look at the K12's with a sub?
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10th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liv4ree View Post
Another question. Where we don't have drums. But we do have bass. Will the QSC KW153 be sufficient? Or should I look at the K12's with a sub?
The 153's will be fine for any small or medium venue. They are a bit to haul around though. Subs with smaller speakers would work great, because you could more easily pole-mount the smaller speakers, getting them over the audience for better dispersion. I'd actually recommend the 8" instead of the 12" if you go the sub route, as they have an even wider dispersion (105 degrees), and the QSC 8's sound great, and are extremely portable. You'd then hi-pass them, making them even more efficient, and use one or two subs just for the lows. Personally, I'd go that route, although the 153's are excellent speakers, they are too big and heavy for me, and ground stacking sometimes is problematic, whereas pole stacking usually always works. The subs of course would be on the floor. IMHO.
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10th January 2013
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edva, what do you mean when you say: You'd then hi-pass them? Thanks.
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10th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liv4ree View Post
edva, what do you mean when you say: You'd then hi-pass them? Thanks.
That means there is a switch on the speaker to only let the "highs" pass through, in this case everything above 100hz. Then, everything at or below 100hz is sent only to the subwoofer. This frees the smaller speaker from having to try to pump out bass, which takes the most power, so as a result it performs more efficiently.
If you think the K8's are too small, maybe look at the k10's. However, they all have the same power, 1000 watts, and the 8's have the widest dispersion, which is usually desirable in a small system, since you want the sound to spread out and cover a close audience, as is usually the case in small to medium sized venues.
liv4ree
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10th January 2013
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Thanks Edva...
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