01v96i vs studiolive 24:4:2

[cheu78]

For engineering a live show I'd go with the studiolive.. The pre's are decent afterall, and even if I'd choose something better the studiolive is way better than any 01 or 02 for the live environment and it's perfectly capable of recording the live shows..

At another price there's the Digico SD11 which is stellar (but of course at a very different price than the presonus), and paired with the digico UB Madi you could record 'til 48 tracks to any computer that has a usb port.

Between the Digico and the studiolive there's "possibly" the A&H GLD which looks promising for the price..

If it's a fixed installation do you really need a digital desk?
Maybe a good old analog desk and some converters for recording (hd24xr if you want to go cheap and need a lot of I/O or the ferrofish mk2) will set you better than the cheapo digital stuff. Some analog desks could be found for pennies and they sound very good..
Maybe also the analog mixer with integrated converters like the A&H Zed series..I think it's way better than the 01 for a live shows and perfectly capable of recording..

I hope this helps,

Just my 0.02$,

Cheu

[trock]

Hey thanks for the info

this is a portable gig, i should have mentioned that. there is no building yet and the meetings will vary from location to location. hence the need for one of these

i have been watching some videos on both and while i love yamaha and cubase the studiolive, at least to get going, looks really nice and easy. using it with capture, dumping it into S1, remote control with my IPAD. looks like it covers everything right off the bat

i am worried about sound and stability, it seems to vary from review to review i read from people using it. some love it and have no issues and others dont like the sound and seem to have driver issues - haha - so of course i should just try it on my own

i also read the yamaha is very good quality, has motorised faders, templates for cubase, stuio manager and also has IPAD remote capabilites.

but i read that it is quite complicated to get into and get the hang of.

are these both cascadable? meaning can i buy a second one and seemlessly add them together?

thanks!

[njrsound]

The 01V96 is a great recording board but rather fiddly for live use. I own one and use it for both, I'm used to it, and as it mainly get used for location recording I can put up with the ergonomic challenges of using it for live reinforcement. If Reinforcement was the main use, I'd probably look elsewhere - the Yamaha LS-9 for example, with a Dante card and the matching software on the MacBook. Or the Presonus, which is cheaper, but research the current status of power supply problems they were having a while ago.

[adamboon]

O1V96i will sound better than the presonus!

[cheu78]

Originally Posted by adamboon

O1V96i will sound better than the presonus!

Maybe.. I'm not really sure about that though..IME is rather cheap.. But let's admit for a moment that you're right..
Have you already managed a 4-6 piece band with a 01..? Eq is a joke as the fx and everything else..I'd try to avoid it as much as possible for a live sound situation.. It could be good for a post prod studio, but I really hope that people stop bringing them at the venues as a live board
IMO and IME is NOT the right tool for the job (engineering a live show).. Is like hammering a nail with an sm57, you could.. But it doesn't mean it's an hammer..

..and I get better results, soundwise speaking, with any A&H mixer currently made (but I guess that this could be subjective).

Just my 0.02$,

Cheu

[Frost]

I owned 2 01v96 (until I upgraded to ls9s). And have used the presonus a lot. I don't understand the eq is a joke comment. I think they are both very usable for live sound. The Yamaha only has 12 mic preamps but I just used the last 4 with my wireless mics. I find the Yamaha much easier to mix with having moving faders but if you aren't going to add something like an Alesis hd24 it's a pain to record with. It seems like recording is important so I would go with the presonus.

I wouldn't cascade either of them. I would use external preamps and add a layer 17-32.

[adamboon]

The new 01v96i is easy to record with

[Frost]

Good call. Forgot about the update. That would make the Yamaha the obvious choice for me. Not having moving faders kills the presonus for me.

[AlexK]

The 01V96 is a great desk when you get used to it. Yes the PreSonus is more 'walk up to it and use it' in it's design, but the 01V96 is monumentally powerful and flexible once you put a dual-channel ADAT card (or whichever choice of IO).

And I don't get this whole '01V96 EQ sucks and isn't very good at recording' thing, I use mine primarily as a recording console and it works beautifully. I also do FOH on it regularly, and you'd be surprised at the scale of some of the shows I've done off such a compact board. It's especially great if you integrate it with SM2.

[hbphotoav]

Looking at the designs, and having worked a couple of times on 01v and DM1000, my take is that the Yamaha desks are more capable DAW-mates, and the 24.4.2 is more a "compact live desk with recording/tracking capabilities." I was looking for the latter, found the former's 12 onboard mic amps a serious limitation in a "portable" solution, and the learning curve much steeper than the PreSonus. As an old analog guy, the "analog desk with a digital overlay" (especially regarding the I/O layout on the back) my choice was pretty easy. I bought a 24.4.2.

HB

[trock]

thanks guys

i am still torn and going to check both out at gearfest in a few weeks at sweetwater.

since i know cubase so well and also S1 pretty well i was really just thinking of these 2 as they both seem to fill the record a show, dump to DAW, mix and print, as well as both having IPAD remote controls.

i think at most i will need to run a band but i probably use up the 12 on the yamaha pretty quickly that way. which is why i was wondering how easy it is to cascade these if needed

i also have had the yamaha n12 in my home studio for years and love it.

ack, i wish yamaha had the 01v96i with 24 inputs with pre's etc

[hbphotoav]

FWIW, we run a 40-channel A&H GL3800 at my HOW. The Presonus 24.4.2 gets a passive split of the first 24 channels ("band") of which we regularly use 18-22. 16 was never enough. It replaced a neat little Mix Wiz 12M... and gave us the additional input channels we needed, with 10 auxes for our IEMs system.There was more need for the digital tricks via the iPad/iPhone control of the auxes from the stage (at a $3K price point) than there was for upgrading the main desk to a SC48, gaining 8 input channels for a $30K price point.

Mileages vary. Every situation is different. Just be certain wherever you land is solidly reliable, scalable (the band will grow... it's a law), train-able (unless you are the 52-week sound guy and you never get sick), and sounds good. If it was easy...

HB

[brightshine]

The 01v96 will work great with Cubase. I own two 01V's and use one for live tracking to an HD24 and then bring it back to my personal studio and use both desks with Cubase. The moving faders are a nice touch when it comes to mixing. The latest 01V has the USB connection for recording.

When going live, the moving faders are really nice when switching between layers.

[Dettenator]

That is the good part about the presonus, you don't need motorized faders because there isn't layers to this board, each channel strip is just that, a channel strip, the fat channel is activated by selecting a channel and that fader can still work that channel, you can get into the EQ section and be adjusting it while you still have complete control of each channels fader.
The only time you have to worry about fader location is when recalling saved presets and if you use the remote function on an ipad or if you lock the board while you are roving and come back and someone has messed with the board.
I have no experience with Yamaha digital but we also use a Yamaha analog board, and I use a Digidesign at our church.

For live Presonus is awesome especialy if you want to record using capture, we then mix using a Studioone and a Presonus faderport, works great together and SLone is very easy to learn and use and gets the job done quickly.
The learning curve on the Studiolive is way better than most digital boards and the visual display makes it that much easier to adjust....IMHO

[trock]

good stuff

how easy is it to dump the recorded parts from capture into studio one? do tracks match up? etc or how is that done?

[Dettenator]

When you record a session in capture (not a mixing software) all you have to do is open your Studioone software and open the session in studioone, there is no drag and drop, cut and paste nothing, it will be there for you to open with all the markers, note, lables etc...pretty simple!

[trock]

wow, thats actually really cool!

thanks for that info

[hbphotoav]

Originally Posted by Dettenator

That is the good part about the presonus, you don't need motorized faders because there isn't layers to this board, each channel strip is just that, a channel strip, the fat channel is activated by selecting a channel and that fader can still work that channel, you can get into the EQ section and be adjusting it while you still have complete control of each channels fader.
...
The learning curve on the Studiolive is way better than most digital boards and the visual display makes it that much easier to adjust....IMHO

I concur. In conversations with my local sales guy, that was a large "issue" in the early months. His explanation... "The addition of flying faders would make a great little 24-channel $3,000 desk into a so-so $5,000 desk." He then proceeded to the same explanation of need as above.

I'm happy with it as is. When I want and need "more", I'll move up to a DM2000, M7CL or SC48. I'm sure they are each lacking in features as well... compared to the next "level" in the digital marketplace.

My $.02US.

HB

[Plush]

The Yamaha is the proven console. That is for sure. Also the sound is better on the Yamaha.

I cannot follow the thinking that says it is not a good console for live work.
It has a lot of inputs and I presume that you do have at least a rack of something like some Focusrite Octopre Dynamics. That is another 8 mic amps.

On board reverbs and comps on the new Yamaha are also very useable. What more do you want for the price?

[Dettenator]

Originally Posted by Plush

The Yamaha is the proven console. That is for sure. Also the sound is better on the Yamaha.

I cannot follow the thinking that says it is not a good console for live work.
It has a lot of inputs and I presume that you do have at least a rack of something like some Focusrite Octopre Dynamics. That is another 8 mic amps.

On board reverbs and comps on the new Yamaha are also very useable. What more do you want for the price?

The things i don't like about this board, and I may be wrong, I have done some research on it, but not that extensive, only 12 mic preamps, if you want more you have to purchase external, 16 1/4" inputs to add up to 24 channels, I would rather mic a guitar than use a DI on it to get that clean amp sound, to much layering, the faders are motorized but the 16 faders work the 12 mic pres, the 16 1/4" and the subs and auxes.
If you want to use the auxes as IEM or seperate stage monitor outs you have to purchase a seperate module to plug into the unit.
As I said before I am used to a 96 channel Digidesign board at church, but for the layering on such a small board I think is too much.
If I record a high school orchestra in a venue I can use 24 xlr mics on the presonus with no converters, DIs or adapters, just straight in, record to pc and mix later going back through the board or just using the DAW.

[Dettenator]

Oh and also on the Presonus you can record all 24 tracks, not so on the Yamaha.

[Tube World]

IF your using Cubase, Yamaha (who owns Steinberg) will intergrate better with Cubase. Remember that Yamaha has their own mixer screen on your computer that works with the mixer. If you need more than 12 mic pre's the Studio live would probably be better though. The new Behringer X32 is also very exicting

[AlexK]

Originally Posted by Dettenator

Oh and also on the Presonus you can record all 24 tracks, not so on the Yamaha.

This can be done with the Yamaha if you install a dual channel ADAT card, although you will need an interface with x3 ADAT inputs as well.

RE having to fill up extra channels with external inputs - this is a bonus IMO. More expandability, I can add extra channels to my rig as I earn it. With the Presonus, you're stuck with their stock AD/DA.

RE the sound of the desks, the dynamics in all the v2 Yamaha boards has been great IMO, from the 01V96 right up to the DM2000, which all use the same algorithms.

[Don S]

Originally Posted by Dettenator

If I record a high school orchestra in a venue I can use 24 xlr mics on the presonus with no converters, DIs or adapters, just straight in, record to pc and mix later going back through the board or just using the DAW.

I'm not sure I would want to use 24 tracks or mics on a high school orchestra!

[Dettenator]

Originally Posted by Don S

I'm not sure I would want to use 24 tracks or mics on a high school orchestra!

Well I haven't gotten a chance to do that yet, I am waiting for that oportunity to come along, what would you suggest to do in that situation?

[trock]

good discussion, thanks all

seems like both boards will do what i need. i am going to check out them both and get a hands on feel and hopefully get a full rundown from the guys at gearfest from each company.

[Don S]

Originally Posted by trock

good discussion, thanks all

seems like both boards will do what i need. i am going to check out them both and get a hands on feel and hopefully get a full rundown from the guys at gearfest from each company.

There is a ton of information and discussion on this forum:
LAB Lounge
Lots of FOH guys talking about the latest and greatest.

[Plush]

Originally Posted by Dettenator

Well I haven't gotten a chance to do that yet, I am waiting for that oportunity to come along, what would you suggest to do in that situation?

I suggest that you put up only two mics and back away as far as possible.

Putting out a lot of mics on a lesser group only picks up the mistakes in high fidelity.

Capture as a whole.

RE the comparison between the two consoles. You cannot have all the features in the world for $2000. That is very inexpensive these days and we ought to all be thankful for the flexible capability of these small set ups.

[Don S]

Originally Posted by Dettenator

Well I haven't gotten a chance to do that yet, I am waiting for that oportunity to come along, what would you suggest to do in that situation?

Go for a balanced/musical ensemble sound using a main stereo pair with a couple of flanks if it's a decent hall or a large ensemble.