PA for small bar and resto help - Pics

[mingustoo]

Looks great!
Should be easy to find some Mackie SRM 450 used around there.

[BPLive]

Originally Posted by mingustoo

Looks great!
Should be easy to find some Mackie SRM 450 used around there.

thanks -

Would you use this speaker in the small bar? and how many

[dschadt]

It looks great! +1 for the simple Mackie setup. Though if you're looking for lower music in the resto area you might try some of those ceiling-mounted speakers a lot of restaurants use. Just regular consumer stuff - wire it up into your mixer or whatever you're using. They're about 8-10 inches by about 6 inches and 4-6 inches deep? I think JBL makes pretty solid ones. If I had model numbers to suggest I would.

[BPLive]

Originally Posted by dschadt

It looks great! +1 for the simple Mackie setup. Though if you're looking for lower music in the resto area you might try some of those ceiling-mounted speakers a lot of restaurants use. Just regular consumer stuff - wire it up into your mixer or whatever you're using. They're about 8-10 inches by about 6 inches and 4-6 inches deep? I think JBL makes pretty solid ones. If I had model numbers to suggest I would.

It will look much better. paint and a rock theme :D and beer taps etc.

At first I thought you meant those round ceiling inside jobs. but I think you mean the jbl satellites. Being this is a high area for bars and parties, I need the option for acoustic duo or to just rock out music. When you go to rock bars here, they all have at least a cab with 12" and the look suits the rock theme. I understand for resto have smaller, so maybe I was on the right track with 4 EV ZXA1's or ZA1 (and maybe a sub) and for the small bar with pair of 15's so I don't need a sub. I want to be able to crank pink floyd and sound real nice in the body if you know what I mean.

[BPLive]

I can get 4

Mackie SR1521Z for 1600 euro in very very good condition. I can use 2 in each room for now? or is that overkill for this room?

remember that I can use them for the 200 sm club also upstairs later. 400 euro each doesn't sound bad for a 'eaw' designed speaker edit: SA and HD i believe are EAW not the SR series but not sure

[toneguru]

Put most of your budget in small hi quality speakers. Can you find used Bagend or used JBL MR925? Usually around $400 a pair used for the JBL and 12" bagend and $600 used for the 15" Bagend.

Also, stay away from the mid level JBL it is not worth it to buy it new.

Keep it simple if you are on a budget get a Mackie 808S PA head and two very hi quality (non powered) speakers. In a venue that size the acts should not need floor monitors. If they do they are playing way too loud for the venue.

JBL SR series or SRX is good, also MR series from the 90's were pretty good too. I think I got those models right. Stay away from JBL EON or old TR series, they simply do not cut it. Lots of speakers out there look good but sound like crap. Find a great singer musician that plays at a moderate to soft level and use his ears and wisdom to help you find a good set of speakers.

Do not get stage monitors too. They will make for a cluster!@#$ of sound. Plus, bands that whine about needing them in a venue like that usually suck or are good but a pain in the arse to deal with.

I have had over a thousand gigs in small venues like yours and we brought in our own PA to every one of them. A Mackie 808S head from around 1990 and a pair of used Bagend 12"/H for PA... and we did not have floor monitors.

[BPLive]

Originally Posted by toneguru

Put most of your budget in small hi quality speakers. Can you find used Bagend or used JBL MR925? Usually around $400 a pair used for the JBL and 12" bagend and $600 used for the 15" Bagend.

Also, stay away from the mid level JBL it is not worth it to buy it new.

Keep it simple if you are on a budget get a Mackie 808S PA head and two very hi quality (non powered) speakers. In a venue that size the acts should not need floor monitors. If they do they are playing way too loud for the venue.

JBL SR series or SRX is good, also MR series from the 90's were pretty good too. I think I got those models right. Stay away from JBL EON or old TR series, they simply do not cut it. Lots of speakers out there look good but sound like crap. Find a great singer musician that plays at a moderate to soft level and use his ears and wisdom to help you find a good set of speakers.

Do not get stage monitors too. They will make for a cluster!@#$ of sound. Plus, bands that whine about needing them in a venue like that usually suck or are good but a pain in the arse to deal with.

I have had over a thousand gigs in small venues like yours and we brought in our own PA to every one of them. A Mackie 808S head from around 1990 and a pair of used Bagend 12"/H for PA... and we did not have floor monitors.

thanks for that. I don't expect monitors in the rooms I showed above. I didn't post pictures of the club to avoid too much confusion as I want to start with the first floor first. Which is a small bar and resto that will host acoustic from time to time (I play guitar too) and little open mic events at most.

I am American living in Athens and can't find jack on the market. The prices are frustrating because I am still thinking American prices and want to get that good deal. The used market is full of Eon's, JRX, Old electrovoice. I havent' seen any good SRX here. PRX I see used now for 1400 euros a pair... WTF. The ones you mentioned I haven't seen and my greek wife and I been looking for a few months now.

So you don't like these Mackies? They are higher end mackies ... wood. I know they are too powerful as a price point for the small bar... but later when I sort out getting smaller speakers, I can move them to the club



^^ is the back upstairs club bar



is sitting leaning on that club bar taking a picture to the stage.

Of course I'll need monitors for that ? and the Mackie's could be used here?

[BPLive]

example with what I'm dealing with here. new ad for used gear

4 Speakers Yorkville Sound - C12W - Speaker - 400w, 12 inch / 1.75 inch 2400 euro (from 3900 euro)


- 1 Speaker Sub 400watt - 300 euro (from 600 euro)


- 1 Amplifier final CARVER made in USA 800 euro (from 1500 euro) + crossover


- 2 CD player DENON 300 euro (from 700 euro)

2400 euro for 4 Yorkville c12w ? Thats the price you can get brand new in dollars.

[cheu78]

I'd check out the QSC alternatives.. K series or KW.. Take the 10'' tops combined with the 15" old HPR subs ...they sound very good for the price.. If you could find the old HPR line (for the tops) used will be even cheaper.. (even if there's only the 12")

I like the 15" better instead of the common used nowadays 18" subs..
but that could be just me..

Btw the QSC line is good for what you're looking for, they're not plastic boxes and they're cheap..

just my 0.02$,

Bests,

Cheu

[fabricaudio]

Hi BPLive

If can guess correct this is the ex-swing club-bar. I have been there a few times. It has a very nice vibe and most of the times was crowded.

My opinion is to start with a few speakers and then upgrade. We run in the studio a PA system for the rehearsals and the we recently bought 2 floor monitors for more flexibility. The only damage was a crossover after two years.

Have a look here,
Online Guide PA Speakers - Thomann Greek Cyberstore

and here

The Box - Thomann Greek Cyberstore


I am not a PA expert and some people may believe that unbranded products may not seem reliable and good but we use this set (we use only only one speaker at the left and at the right we have these two floor monitors
THE BOX PA M 12 ECO MKII - Thomann Greek Cyberstore)

The key point for us is that the T-box products proved to be workhorse so far and they come with 3 years warranty

We even bought a second T.AMP E800 (THE T.AMP E800 - Thomann Greek Cyberstore) for back-up.


Of course people who are professionals in PA installation know better than me, but i just wanted to share my experience so far. Since you wrote your question here i assume you have a limited budget and you don't want to hire a PA consultant.

Although is very difficult here in Greece, smoking in clubs is the main reason why all these devices (no matter the brand) fail through the time.

Nikolas

p.s: It is a very nice place and i wish you all the best, maybe i will try to pop-in sometime (i am in the army at the moment)

[mingustoo]

That's a good suggestion for the QSC HPR. I just closed my club and was using the Mackies as my mains. The Mackies were great and put out a lot of sound, but the QSC sound a little better. Also look for RCF as they are made in Italy. Personally, I like the powered stuff as its just easier. You can always add the sub later.
That place looks like it's going to rock! Stay sober and count the money.

[BPLive]

hey niko,

I was going to delete that one image with the logo. Didn't want to be spotted in an online search etc.

We will be opening the first floor first. So I am not worried about the club right now. That will come later and the system will build in time like you suggested.

Great feedback and love the gear you have on your site. Even the Crumar Trilogy :D (almost bought one recently) --- but since this will be a rock bar and you know the area has a lot of bars and clubs using brand names as dynacord, jbl, ev, hk, I would as a customer and owner feel weird to see T. as my main speakers. you know? Kind of like if you replaced that Marshall stack with a Behringer guitar cab... your customer would turn around and look at you funny.

Originally Posted by cheu78

I'd check out the QSC alternatives.. K series or KW.. Take the 10'' tops combined with the 15" old HPR subs ...they sound very good for the price.. If you could find the old HPR line (for the tops) used will be even cheaper.. (even if there's only the 12")

I like the 15" better instead of the common used nowadays 18" subs..
but that could be just me..

Btw the QSC line is good for what you're looking for, they're not plastic boxes and they're cheap..

just my 0.02$,

Bests,

Cheu

I never seen them in person here but I have been reading and youtubing a lot on qsc. Even talked to a sales rep in UK about them. Now 2 questions

1. The k12's are 1500 pounds a pair. I can't import them from USA because I'll get custom f%$ked. 1500 pounds to euros = 1700 euros on a good day. I can get the 4 Mackie SR1521z for 1600 euros. As far as quality and sound I hear they are comparable ... as far as I read. The 4 Mac's I can get are almost new, used for 3 live events. Which would you get?

2. You brought up k12's and 10's ... for where? Which room(s) ... I don't understand if its too much power for the smaller bar.

thanks for the help guys... I'm trying to understand if its ok to put 12" cabs in that small bar. and for the resto beer chugging eating area. or even 15's.
to get the party started. Then later when I find deals on EV Zx1's or there other lines or smaller JVC, I'll put like 6 of those in the resto area with amps. My issue is that chances don't come up a lot for a decent deal.

Mackie SR1521z suck or are ok? too much power? I can always replace them later or move them to stage monitors or sound reenforcement for the club.

[BPLive]

Originally Posted by mingustoo

That's a good suggestion for the QSC HPR. I just closed my club and was using the Mackies as my mains. The Mackies were great and put out a lot of sound, but the QSC sound a little better. Also look for RCF as they are made in Italy. Personally, I like the powered stuff as its just easier. You can always add the sub later.
That place looks like it's going to rock! Stay sober and count the money.

ah ha so you probably agree that the Mackie SR1521z may be a good buy

Thanks for the advice. For right now because as you know about the buisiness I have many things on my mind, I'd like to stay with powered stuff.. for now. I need to get the party started... soon. Thanks for the advice and I'll try to stay clear from the czech beers... try to. Yea been checking RCF too, nothing good on the used market yet.

So what kind of music did your club play? mine will be focused on the rock scene.. classic rock, rock, some metal and such. Some dance nights.

[AlexK]

Really not a fan of Mackie here. All those PWM amps make for a very grainy sound which gets really harsh when you turn them up (especially with rock music). Plus a 15" two-way speaker is generally a very bad idea as it fires all it's midrange straight-forward in a sort of 'pencil beam'.

Slightly more costly, but a significantly better sounding, more compact, smart looking, lightweight, and wider-dispersion speaker would be the QSC K10. Very, very good sounding compact plastic speakers which put out an incredible amount of bass considering their size, and sound fantastic at the same time!

[BPLive]

Originally Posted by AlexK

Really not a fan of Mackie here. All those PWM amps make for a very grainy sound which gets really harsh when you turn them up (especially with rock music). Plus a 15" two-way speaker is generally a very bad idea as it fires all it's midrange straight-forward in a sort of 'pencil beam'.

Slightly more costly, but a significantly better sounding, more compact, smart looking, lightweight, and wider-dispersion speaker would be the QSC K10. Very, very good sounding compact plastic speakers which put out an incredible amount of bass considering their size, and sound fantastic at the same time!

I had a meeting with Dynacord rep a couple months back. I told him I was thinking about QSC and he made it a sales point con that its 'made in china'. It kind of worked for me actually because then I was thinking I should support EU or USA companies.... especially with being rock. maybe I'm thinking too much into it. Then again I haven't seen any clubs in the area using QSC and could be different (lol not that most people will care) . At the same time I get into anti 'globalization of goods' rants using people for cheap labor etc blah blah.

[cheu78]

You thought right IMO... But..
Most of EU or US companies just rebrand or quality check in their country but it's still made in china..(i'm not talking about quality, I'm only speaking about labor conditions and the ending price of a product).
If you really want to support EU companies or US companies, you should buy something very boutique that is probably hand made, and spend about 10 times more.. Which nowadays nobody wants to do..

And sometimes even then, some parts comes from china.. Maybe dynacord is built in another country that is not china, but with the same labor conditions for their workers (I don't know anything about dynacord and where they build their stuff)..

What you want to do is very good, from a moral point of view, but very utopic... I'm just saying that if you want to buy something for supporting the "local" business, it's very difficult nowadays more than ever, expensive and you should really know who and how they produce that stuff.. Not only in the audio world.
I'm not saying to not buying dynacord, it could also be better than qsc, I never heard any dynacord speaker.. i'm just saying that I'll make sure that your information must be correct when deciding to buy for these reasons. And of course expecting to paying a lot of more money, simply because you need to pay that labor as it should and not 3$ a day.

If the budget allows check out the Turbosound NuQ series, amazing speakers.. Not quite sure that they're made in England though.. The amps probably not.. But I could be wrong..way over your budget.. IMO absolutely worthed, but a budget is a budget.

Please don't take this as a personal attack, I'm just trying to look at the reality..



Bests,

Cheu

[BPLive]

Originally Posted by cheu78

You thought right IMO... But..
Most of EU or US companies just rebrand or quality check in their country but it's still made in china..(i'm not talking about quality, I'm only speaking about labor conditions and the ending price of a product).
If you really want to support EU companies or US companies, you should buy something very boutique that is probably hand made, and spend about 10 times more.. Which nowadays nobody wants to do..

And sometimes even then, some parts comes from china.. Maybe dynacord is built in another country that is not china, but with the same labor conditions for their workers (I don't know anything about dynacord and where they build their stuff)..

What you want to do is very good, from a moral point of view, but very utopic... I'm just saying that if you want to buy something for supporting the "local" business, it's very difficult nowadays more than ever, expensive and you should really know who and how they produce that stuff.. Not only in the audio world.
I'm not saying to not buying dynacord, it could also be better than qsc, I never heard any dynacord speaker.. i'm just saying that I'll make sure that your information must be correct when deciding to buy for these reasons. And of course expecting to paying a lot of more money, simply because you need to pay that labor as it should and not 3$ a day.

If the budget allows check out the Turbosound NuQ series, amazing speakers.. Not quite sure that they're made in England though.. The amps probably not.. But I could be wrong..way over your budget.. IMO absolutely worthed, but a budget is a budget.

Please don't take this as a personal attack, I'm just trying to look at the reality..



Bests,

Cheu

All good. Thinking out loud.

After the 'made in china' con about QSC.... he showed me a Bosch manufacturing plant in Zhuhai China. They also have one in Germany. He said the difference is that they own the plant in China (looking at the picture now) and its set up the same way as the one in Germany. There is like 4 pages dedicated to this fact in product cat. So I dunno take it for what its worth. but I think they make components for Electro-voice too.

Anyway you are right ... we both are. I am looking at QSC used right now, at least thats recycling. and I am looking at RCF Art 312-A new.

RCF Art 312-A I have read are comparable to k12's or k10's sound quality wise .... Can anybody relate to that? Its 3:30 am ... better sleep... but when tomorrow comes I think I'll find that RCF dealer and have a listen. Art 312-A are about 490 euros and k12's 845 euros ouch!! I'm thinking the RCF for the smaller room for its rating and price but not sure.

[once a roadie]

Stick with the electrovoice models mentioned. Softer tweeters and wider dispersion will be your friend. The jbls will throw a bit too focussed for the small room and will sound wonky. Eons need about 20 ft to develop their sound. Not sure about the mackies. Ev zxa is my vote for small spaces.


Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app