PA for wedding

[Sk106]

Wattage = 4W per listener, is a good average. 100 people in the audience = 400W amplification will keep you safe.

[jruberto]

Originally Posted by mightypants

Things I know I need:

-aux in for ipod or similar device
-I think 4 channels will do

Things you might not realize you need:
-someone to run it (who knows how)
-microphones, cables and stands
-monitors so the singers can hear themselves
-stands to put the PA speakers on

I'm a wedding professional and have pretty much seen it all (good, bad and ugly) over the last 10 years of being at someone's wedding every weekend.

My advice? Hire it out.

Your wedding day event is, like, what.. 6 hours long? Do you really want to spend any of that time being tech staff?

Enough wattage or not, dicking around with the sound system is the last thing you'll want to deal with on your wedding day, and there is nothing worse than the sound being poor when people are trying to talk to the room (you didn't mention this, but it's inevitable that someone, maybe even you, will want to), or howling feeding back during dinner. Which is what will happen when you realize you don't want to dick around with the sound system and you appoint someone else to be in charge of it. Getting the EQ and level right on a cheap mic being used by someone who doesn't know how to use a mic (holding it down by their belly like Bob Barker and talking real quiet) and who is standing out in front of the PA speakers is no small feat, even for a veteran audio engineer.

A few hundred bucks will buy you a toy PA. For probably not much more, you can hire in an actual PA appropriate to the room and someone to run it who knows how to run it, and then you won't have to give it another thought or invest any time and effort on your wedding day, or deal with the disappointment of crap sound.

$0.02. Cheers & congratulations.

[LimeMusic]

I agree with the above 100%. A few hundred dollars is not going to get you much, and I don't mean that in the "you have to spend thousands for a great PA" sense.

Hire it out and enjoy your family and friends on one of the most important days of your life

[Aeolian]

Agreed. At least rent. If you are going to have a need down the road then you might want to invest in something usable. But it won't be cheap. And wedding expenses are crazy. Somehow when folks find out something is for a wedding, the prices go up several multiples.

Also, having done it (and I know how and have the gear) messing around with tech stuff takes away from what should be a day about your wife.

If you don't hire in, at least have one of the musicians who knows how handle the rented PA. Including picking it up, set up, tear down (you have other things to do then) and taking it back.

What I would bring to your thing would be a Soundcraft Gigrac to function as a mixer and monitor power and a pair of QSC K10s. Sennheiser wireless 835 some small Peavey 10" plastic monitors that I replaced the guts with Eminence Deltas, and enough stand mics with 58s for whatever is going on. That's a good three grand worth of gear. Small, quick to set up, but most importantly high enough quality to be reliable and sound good without fighting with it. Rent on such a set up should be $3-500.

I've got subs, amp racks, a couple of A&H mixers, and tons of other speakers if the venue was bigger or hard to cover. But that would cost more and would probably go along with a top notch band. Which you would be paying a lot more for.

I get DIY to save some bucks. But buying a cheap PA for a one shot that can't be used for anything else is a waste of money.

[Lenzo]

I'd also think about renting...good mics can set you back a few hundred. You don't need much for the ceremony and backround music, but if you put the band in the mix and you want people to dance a beefier p.a. is needed. A decent p.a. can be ruined by cheap mics and during the ceremony you don't want to be hearing feedback because the mic is a piece of junk. Cheap wireless are even worse and can totally ruin a ceremony if they start dropping out and making rude noises. If you have friends who are musicians it's seems likely that you or your friends know someone who might give you a deal and take the stress off of you.
L.

[absoluteenergy]

Originally Posted by mightypants

I need to get a PA system for my wedding

Home

you want one of those

[AlexK]

Originally Posted by Sk106

Wattage = 4W per listener, is a good average. 100 people in the audience = 400W amplification will keep you safe.

In the politest way possible, this is not good advice! Watts mean nothing.

A high sensitivity speaker system will make more noise with 400 watts than a low sensitivity system with 4000 watts.

Take a single Bose 802 for instance. With it's 91dB/w sensitivity, it will require 13kw (yes 13,000 watts) to produce 132 dB at 1m.

Compare this to a Funktion One R3 which will produce the same SPL (132dB at 1m) with only 500 watts.

Watts mean nothing.

Just thought I'd knock that old chestnut!

[M4-10]

Is the bass player bringing his own amplifier (and how big is it)? This makes a huge difference to your PA needs.

It sounds to me like you should rent a package like this.

Do yourself a favour and get someone to run it as well.

[Sk106]

Originally Posted by AlexK

In the politest way possible, this is not good advice! Watts mean nothing.

A high sensitivity speaker system will make more noise with 400 watts than a low sensitivity system with 4000 watts.

Take a single Bose 802 for instance. With it's 91dB/w sensitivity, it will require 13kw (yes 13,000 watts) to produce 132 dB at 1m.

I hear you. I think I'm used to systems with roughly the same resistance. But there are indeed speaker with higher and lesser such.

Also I was taught the above measure by someone else, and we all know how easy it is to like short snappy principles. The fact that this worked out good the few times I've been responsible for the PA, plus hearing it from some other locals that this is a good average .. that plays in as well.

Watts do matter, but one must look at the resistance of the speaker as well.

[Aeolian]

Cheap 15" two ways are death. If you put them up on poles like you should, you don't get that much bass. They're heavy to get up there, and usually there's a big hole in the midrange. Especially slightly off axis. As they can't afford to but horns and drivers in there that go low enough to take over before the larger woofer starts beaming. To do it right, you need the horn to go down to 4-500 Hz. Not the 1200 to even 3000 that budget speakers cross over at. You are paying for the illusion of loud and bass. Neither of which is really there.

You want the best quality HF drivers you can afford. The rest will fall into place. Good efficiency will take care of spl. Good sound will mean less spl is needed for folks to understand what is said or sung.

By way of illustration, there's a club around here where bands bring in big PAs to rock the house on weekends. Typically single or dual 18s often with dual 15+ horn things like SRX725s on top. But there's a group that comes through there (when they're in town) led by Tony Lindsay who sings for Santana and Tom Politzer who plays horn for TOP. Their PA? A 600w Gigrac, a pair of EV Sx300s and a hot spot monitor. They let other local A listers bring it from the stage, and that little (but high quality) system keeps the vocals and horn up where the giant PA bands are.

Quality, not quantity.

[jruberto]

and if you let us know where you are, you may even be able to hire in a bona-fide gearslut to run it. or at least get a qualified referral.

[AlexK]

Originally Posted by Sk106

Watts do matter, but one must look at the resistance of the speaker as well.

But it's not about resistance. Speaker impedance (resistance) just tells you how many watts your amplifier will be able to drop into your speakers.

How loud your system actually goes is a combination of speaker sensitivity and power handling/power available (whichever first becomes the limiting factor).

Saying '4000 watts will be enough' is like saying you need 45dB of gain on your preamp to record vocals, without knowing what microphone you're using.

Originally Posted by Aeolian

Cheap 15" two ways are death. If you put them up on poles like you should, you don't get that much bass. They're heavy to get up there, and usually there's a big hole in the midrange. Especially slightly off axis. As they can't afford to but horns and drivers in there that go low enough to take over before the larger woofer starts beaming. To do it right, you need the horn to go down to 4-500 Hz. Not the 1200 to even 3000 that budget speakers cross over at. You are paying for the illusion of loud and bass. Neither of which is really there.

You want the best quality HF drivers you can afford. The rest will fall into place. Good efficiency will take care of spl. Good sound will mean less spl is needed for folks to understand what is said or sung.

By way of illustration, there's a club around here where bands bring in big PAs to rock the house on weekends. Typically single or dual 18s often with dual 15+ horn things like SRX725s on top. But there's a group that comes through there (when they're in town) led by Tony Lindsay who sings for Santana and Tom Politzer who plays horn for TOP. Their PA? A 600w Gigrac, a pair of EV Sx300s and a hot spot monitor. They let other local A listers bring it from the stage, and that little (but high quality) system keeps the vocals and horn up where the giant PA bands are.

Quality, not quantity.

+1000 to this. Sx300s aren't my favourite speakers, there are (IMO) much better plastic speakers out there.

They are nice and efficient though, they go louder than most other budget(ish) PA speakers. At £1k a pair, they're not exactly expensive...

[gehauser]

Originally Posted by mightypants

I need to get a PA system for my wedding, and I'm looking for some info to help inform my purchase. We're going to use the PA both for pre-recorded and live music, both before/during the ceremony and during the reception. Things I know I need:

-aux in for ipod or similar device
-I think 4 channels will do

I'm not sure about wattage--our ceremony will be outside with around 100 guests. The reception is in a room that fits about 100-125 guests. What kind of wattage will that require? The ensemble is likely to be bass, guitar, piano, and a couple vocalists. I don't think we're going to have a drummer. How much wattage do you expect we'll need? 120? I've looked at the Harbinger HA series, and think the 120 watt version will likely meet our needs, but I'm not sure if that's enough power. I'm also unsure of how one connects an mp3 player to it, and I haven't been able to see any close-up images of the unit. Anyone know about that?

Are there any other things I should be looking for? We're on a pretty tight budget, so while I'd love to go with something a little better in terms of quality, I don't think we can spend more that a few hundred dollars. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

I just did the PA for my son's outdoor wedding (~150 people) using low end gear. We had a Phonics 780 Plus 300W per channel mixer (7 inputs) with 12" Wharfedale Pro speakers on stands at the sides at about the second row of guests aimed at the back of the chair group. Did not use any pre-recorded input but I could have with this mixer. Preacher was miked with a wireless lapel mic (not sure what brand as someone else brought it and hooked him up), and the wedding musicians (fingerpicked lap dulcimer, fingerpicked guitar) were miked with 2 sm57s apiece (4 total). The dulcimer played the processional, and dulcimer+guitar played the recessional, all non-traditional music. Plenty of volume for everyone to hear, even on the solo dulcimer, but we did a lot of sound checks before the wedding to make sure it would be loud enough, and to shape the sound a bit.

After the wedding, we moved the same PA to a nearby gazebo for the outdoor reception. There we ran sound for a couple old-time bands, one with six musicians. Had the band in one quarter of the gazebo, with the 12" speakers on stands outside, but pointed into the gazebo. So 3/4 of the gazebo was used for guests who danced their brains out. We had a couple monitor speakers (Kustom 10") in the woods to put some sound into a nearby meadow where many "non-dancing" guests were gathered, who wanted to talk but hear the music at the same time. Miked the upright bass with Audix D6 tucked under the tailpiece, and everyone else (2 fiddles, claw banjo, flute, guitar) with sm57s, and added an sm58 for the vocals.

Got a lot of compliments on the sound at both the wedding and reception. I am a rank amateur at live sound, but it turned out great and we had a wonderful time. I had the cheap PA and a couple sm57/58s beforehand, so I only had to buy a couple more sm57s and D6 for this event, as I recall.

[mightypants]

Thanks for all the input, everyone. I should clarify a few things. Many of my good friends and myself are what I would call semi-pro musicians--i.e. make at least a portion of our living making music. There will be at least a few people at the wedding who know how to handle live sound gear, and I certainly do not plan do be responsible for operating the system myself during the wedding/reception. Between myself and a few friends we should have the bulk of the smaller pieces covered: mics, cables, stands, etc., so I mainly just need the amp/mixer and speakers.

I will definitely look into the possibility of renting instead of buying, but if it's going to cost $300-$500 to rent something really nice or $300-500 to buy something that will get the job done (even if it isn't as good as the rental option), I'll go with the latter. That way, I can keep the system if I think I might have use for it (I may--I'm not decided on this), or turn around and sell it to get back a chunk of what I spent.

I don't think our needs are that great. Yes, we're going to have live performances, but it's going to be pretty low key--a few jazz standards, etc. We don't need the system to be bumpin', just easily audible and decent sounding. It's always hard to decide what's good enough because of the wide level of subjectivity involved. I've read some stellar reviews of, for example, this guy: http://www.guitarcenter.com/Harbinger-HA120-Portable-PA-System-105776611-i1509687.gc. But I know it isn't a high-quality piece of gear. And I'm sure those of you who think of $300 systems as "toys" would have very critical things to say about that package, but if someone else has had success using it in more-or-less the way I intend to use it, it seems reasonably likely that it would be good enough in this scenario.

Of course, I'd love to have something better. I personally have pretty good ears and love high quality sound gear, but you know, weddings are MAD EXPENSIVE, and I'd love to be able to afford rent/food after it's over.

Lastly, I live near Boston, and my wedding will be about an hour south near Plymouth. If anyone can recommend rental places or people to run the system in the area, I'd appreciate that. I think I'll probably have one of my friends run the board, but I wouldn't mind looking into what it would cost to hire it out.

Thanks, again.

[gehauser]

FYI, at the wedding and reception I described above, I had the Phonics 780 Plus master gain cranked about 75% of maximum with individual channels at 50-75%.

So my gut reaction on the system you mention is that it might not be enough wattage.

But as I say, I am no live sound expert, as I only have the one outdoor wedding in my experience.

[tribedescribe]

$500 is the absolute bare bone amount you could get away with. The pa system you mentioned would not cut it for a crowd like you described and it also will not sound very good. I play lots of gigs with variable set ups and occasional do sound. For my non drummer gigs, two 10" speakers at 4-500 watts total is perfect. (bass player alway's brings a amp.) At the top end the yamaha stagepas 500 system would be perfect for this gig but at $900 its over-budget. A fender passport system would also work.

You could probably build a similar Behringer system for $500.

buy 2 of the Behringer EUROLIVE B210D

Behringer EUROLIVE B210D Active PA Speaker System: Shop Pro Audio & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend

Then a mixer like this Behringer XENYX 1202 Mixer

Behringer XENYX 1202 Mixer: Shop Pro Audio & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend

oh and don't forget speaker cords. This system would sound pretty decent for the money and sever your purpose well.

[Aeolian]

Consider buying used. Some sort of Peavey or Mackie head and something like 12" Yamaha club speakers. At least that way you avoid the depreciation of selling stuff you just bought. Other than the older heads being heavier than the latest things (like the 22lb Yamahas) that stuff is reliable and you won't be trying to dump 2nd hand Phonic or Behringer stuff.

[paulreed]

I play at weddings.......HIRE SOMEONE TO TAKE CARE OF IT FOR YOU.
The last thing you want to deal with is sound.
enough said.

[brill bedroom]

I make a living doing private events in the Boston area (part of the vast Marital Industrial Complex, I admit it). When I get to the office I'll see if I can send you a few south shore PA leads. As long as you aren't getting married on a Saturday between May and November, they won't already be all booked and incredibly expensive.

[brill bedroom]

Here's a guy I can personally vouch for: Barry Kimmel. gnomeaudio@aol.com

He lives in Leominster, does monitors for a lot of touring acts, but is home for a while. He has really good gear.

[21stcenturykid]

Rent. You'd be crazy not to. A $500 system is just going to be a waste of your money. Someone pro running sound at your wedding with good gear with save you a lot of hassle on the day. And that's the last thing you'd want!!

The people who review those $500 dollar systems and say they are great must have absolutely no experience of a more expensive system, because over the $1000 mark the difference is absolutely striking!

[Id Ridden]

Originally Posted by mightypants

I will definitely look into the possibility of renting instead of buying, but if it's going to cost $300-$500 to rent something really nice or $300-500 to buy something that will get the job done (even if it isn't as good as the rental option), I'll go with the latter. That way, I can keep the system if I think I might have use for it (I may--I'm not decided on this), or turn around and sell it to get back a chunk of what I spent.

Definitely rent... Our budget PA that gets the job done cost us thousands. You would be hard pressed to buy 1 new worthwhile speaker for your budget...

You are not even sure if you want to keep it if you purchase it, it's way more hassle then needed, especially since it's a wedding, hire it out and let someone else deal with it, focus on the wedding, check out the gear they bring, decide later if you want to go that route...