Using 2 mics for kick drum at live gigs

[dbbubba]

Originally Posted by opentune

Tired of the high volume?

Well that, but the gigs don't pay that well either!

I ****ed up my ears long ago (Lord Tracy '87, '88, '89, '90. 91.)
Label band, loud, sound companies liked us, so my rider specs were usually always met.
Still, I was mixing and playing loud rock in '76, so do the math!
What they tell you IS true.

Remember that I largely do corporate audio, but I'll ***** out if I like the band!
Still, I have to follow the dough...
My old buds in the band I toured with for years is doing their bi-annual gigs in a few weeks here in Dallas (everyone lives all over the U.S. now, so shows are rare.)

They'll be rocking and I'll be in Anaheim, CA tech directing an event that is a big dance competition.
Hang out with my old buds, mixing a KICK ASS rock band, being adored while drinking free Coronas for MAYBE $100 per night or...
Doing a more brain straining gig in Anaheim for ten times the take home money...

I know... the choice is HARD!

A hefty mortgage, car payment, insurance, two kids, electricity, bills, bills, bills...

[dbbubba]

Originally Posted by plexisys

You can do the same thing boosting 800-1.2k on the kick eq depending on the beater and drum head.

A comp/limiter on individual drums or the drum submix is a normal everyday thing in live sound.

I get click much higher than that (2.5K to 5K depending on the drum/beater combo.)

The reason the BBE works is that it only pops in when there is a high freq. signal present. Almost like a gate, but more precise maybe"
EQ alone is boosting EVERYTHING entering the mic which is a lot of snare and cymbal wash/bleed/trash.

Note also that I said it is followed by the PEAKSTOP limiter.
It is brick walled after the BBE adds the extra snap.

Try this with EQ alone and you'll be picking up a LOT of cymbal and other leakage in those mics.

[dbbubba]

Originally Posted by opentune

My kickdrum mic´ing/mixing depends basically on the song tempo/style. It´s either
the high speed/double bass/blastbeat snare/death metal thing or it´s the midtempo/groovy/straight metal band.

It´s a huge difference to me.?

Yeah... all bets are off with the paddlefoot, speedmetal drummers.
I spent some hours making trigger tracks and hand erasing mis-hits back in the day!

I did lot's of those guys in the studio back between '86 and '92 and it really got down to the drummer.
Some guys could hit their kicks consistently, but there was no way most of them could keep the energy level up as they speed up to the circus clown running around the ring stuff. Ever watch the Barnum and Bailey Circus drummer?

I made the mics work because sampling was difficult until about '90 unless you had a Wendell unit or were super patient.
The Alesis D4 was godsend because it actually tracked well and was cheap!

No... I recorded the drummers kicks and MADE IT WORK!

Sometimes it is OK if the intensity isn't 100% full on.
Them old Slayer records have some disappearing kick drums for sure!
They work!

[opentune]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

A hefty mortgage, car payment, insurance, two kids, electricity, bills, bills, bills...

Oh yeah, real life... i heard of that not too long ago. Actually i got caught up
by real life several times. Except kids, that´ll have to wait...

[opentune]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

...unless you had a Wendell unit..

Here´s a link for those who never heard of the Wendel:
: Drum Replacement 101 offers the basics for replacing drums in the personal studio | Basic drum replacement techniques, how to

Originally Posted by dbbubba

Them old Slayer records have some disappearing kick drums for sure!
They work!

I was talking with some musos and sound guys the other day. One of them played
the latest Dimmu Borgir record for us. Nice music, but not even close to Reign In Blood.

[dbbubba]

Originally Posted by opentune

Oh yeah, real life... i heard of that not too long ago. Actually i got caught up
by real life several times. Except kids, that´ll have to wait...

Well, I'm 53....
My "toys" got bigger and my life got more complicated.
A fourteen year-old daughter, adopting a 6 month-old (she's almost 5 now) because her dope head parents couldn't stay out of prison, etc...

Like the insurance company slogan says...
Life comes at you fast. Deal with it.

It's all good.

[opentune]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

Well, I'm 53....
My "toys" got bigger and my life got more complicated.
A fourteen year-old daughter, adopting a 6 month-old (she's almost 5 now) because her dope head parents couldn't stay out of prison, etc...

Sounds like you´re kept busy. Well, i have no idea what my world will look like
in twenty years (i´m 34), but i´ll let you know then!!
Just keep subscribed to this thread...

Originally Posted by dbbubba

It's all good.

Yep, in the end it´s all about the right attitude/mindset.

[Beyersound]

Originally Posted by MarkRB

Not worth it in small venues.

The entire stage resonates with the low end from the drums, bass, guitars, people jumping around etc... Lots of uncontrollable low end. Especially not worth it if you don't have a guy out front to just switch it off.

You should be able to get more than enough sub power from a D6 in the kick to get that punch from a PA.

Or put another way. I never felt a lack of low end using just an in-kick mic on 2000+ shows. Those things are only really useful in the studio, or huge shows where you have some space and a sound man IMHO.

+1 This is pretty much right on. I have worked with a couple of guys with the subkick in a premium live show situation. Tris Imboden from Chicago was one of them, the Subkick didn't really add anything useful. In most live situations getting the lower octave of bass info out of a kickdrum is easy, it is more about the speakers than the mics or pres. The room will always multiply and reinforce the low end. The D6 by itself will be plenty, and the API is nice, but not necessary.