Any live pro live sound mixers here?

[dbbubba]

'73 - '75 my band gigged anywhere we could and I built the p.a.
I probably did less than break even, but mom didn't charge rent.

'75 - ''81 friends in clubs wanted me to run sound because I was further ahead in the audio department... and I knew how to make a band sound good.
$100 per week? What-ever as long as it was fun, the beer was free and the chicks....

'82 - '83 my band and few in bigger clubs
$120..00 per week?

'86 built my 24 track room and mixed many of the bands live in clubs and concrts
$150.00 per night or $100. per set

'89 - Band I recorded was signed to MCA, guess who mixed F.O.H.?
$1800.00 per mo. and decent per diem (see the USA in a bus or van)

2001 - thanks to Muslim terrorists I am back in the live biz (laid off due to 9/11 and a good friend had a gig.)

Now I make a good salary, travel a lot and can do freelance as well.
My A1 day rate is more than $550 per day.
I work all I care to.
I fly to a different city every Friday morning and come home on Monday morning.
I get to take the family to Hawaii every two years on my air miles.
I have spent so much time in Las Vegas that I dread every time I have to go there.
I've seen all of the big hotels in almost every city inside and out.

It has taken a long time to get where I am and although I am fifty-two I figure I can still stay in the biz as long as I care to. My gear toting days are nearing and end.
I make WAY more money than if I was still a studio guy and I had a great 9-5, M - F paid vacation, full medical insurance gig in a production studio for years.

If studio work paid as much as live I'd be in the studio.
I can say that I have seen the entire U.S. up close and in person.
I do get to travel and take the family on cool vacations that are largely paid for by my travel.

Still, I dream of taking all of the gear in my garage studio and doing a full-on studio again. I know that it won't support my lifestyle, so the studio remains here at the house.

Truthfully, I enjoy the challenge of live stuff.
I mix very few bands anymore... corporate pays WAYYYYY better.

Take any gig that you can handle.
Hopefully it pays well, but take it either way.

I know show power, generator power, conventional lighting, intelligent lighting, film/video lighting, staging, corporate audio, F.O.H. mixing, monitor mixing, system design, logistics, recording, video distribution, video projection, rudimentary video editing, electrical best boy, grip, 26' camera crane, etc...

I have a broad background because I said "yes" to a lot of gigs.

TAKE ANY GIG THAT COMES YOUR WAY AND LEARN.
Listen and try to absorb everything that comes your way on a gig.
Read, read, read.

Have fun!

[severe]

Mitch...

Check out the Remote Possibilities forum on this site too.

Danny...

Thanks for sharing that.

[dbbubba]

It seems odd to post it all, but it is a pretty honest assessment of how it goes.

Between all of those dates was time in the studio.
Beat your brains out and never see a huge return on your investment.

Fun times though.

It's job now, but it has it's rewards.

[nickynicknick]

Have to agree with Danny here.... studio doesn't pay so much...unfortunate


....you should hook up with a production (PA)company...you'll be loading unloading trucks and setting up Pa's in all kinds of places...learn ask...there will be lots of small gigs you can try your hand at mixing...I guess you can make $15 an hour to start...there should be lots of work...once you become good and get hired to go on the road maybe you'll start off at $150/show and over some years work your way up to Danny's territory...me , it can range from $200/day to $600/day....corporate gigs always pay great

Nick

[dbbubba]

I'll be honest though...

If the right guys ask me to mix a band show I'll be there with bells on!

When my old buddies in Lord Tracy (MCA '80-'91) do a show and I'm off I mix it for free.
If it involves travel (Little Rock, Memphis, etc...) I'll do it for expenses.

I even do a gig occasionally at an OLD, OLD school C&W daince hall in Ft. Worth for $150.00 (CASH!!!) per night. Ratty-ass, old Peavey SP1s and Altec Voice of the Theaters, but the beer is $1.50 and the popcorn is free. The bands play stuff in the Buck Owens style and most are tour acts (The Derailers, Johnny Bush, Johnny Rodriquez, etc..)

If the money is good I'll do it.
If it is FUN... I wanna' do it, too!

DO BE AWARE....
Live will F@CK UP your ears if your not carefull.

Two years of mixing Lord Tracy when we were on MCA and got what we wanted as far as a p.a. f@cked my ears up a bit. (it was fun though!)

[1979]

I have n't been around as long as some of these guys, but I make a living off of live audio 80% of which is music. I am now at a point where I can turn down work, If I need a break.

I am not excactly living the high life but I mix music for a living and I don't have a real job- Can't complain.

Cheers

[mbradzick]

I just wanted to thank everyone who has replied so far!

[Disjointed]

deleted - oops old ass thread

[Remoteness]

So what?
We like old arse threads around here.

[plexisys]

Moved to LA in 75. Though I had mixed plenty of local and regional acts back home I got a job sweeping the floors and any other work at the original TFA. Did that for about 3 months. They then started having me build power distribution systems. Started out doing summer festivals as 1st or 2nd electrician. After the summer I started going out for full tours as electrician. Went from that to FOH in about 3 years. Went independent in 81.

Road pay was anywhere from $500.00 to $1,000 per week plus PD for production companies. $1,000 to $2,500 as an independent.

Unless you can bring in a decent sized act to mix on your own don't plan on starting out as a mixer. Most companies want to bring you along, starting at the bottom and EARN your way up.

[Disjointed]

i had said...

I make $75 a night doing sound for a small club (~$15 an hour)

not too bad, and I still work my day job for the fat cash

-- night mixing pays for my toys

[memphisindie]

I wish you guys would all zip it about all that water under the bridge and pay attention to the future since the past doesn't matter anymore since YOU can't change it.
What's important is MY opinion.
OK, maybe not, but drop it already, please.

OK, how I got into live stuff? Although I have elder relatives in the biz of live largescale concert lighting and movie lighting and directing, I didn't want to go that way so.
First, my brother and I were music junkies as kids, then, we got jobs with local bands, then I moved to NY after getting close to making a full time living out of it, then.......

Here's the particulars of how I started:

1979 - 1981 STOCKTON AUDIO SYSTEMS, LITTLE ROCK, AR Assistant to Designer
Assisted in production, installation, & maintenance of custom built high fidelity/high efficiency enclosures using custom picked components and custom designed cabinets.
This was before CAD. This was a summer job for a kid already familiar with this and driven type of job that lasted a while.
This guy really opened my eyes up to what sound does in air. We conducted open air experiments on boxes made of MDF in his shop. He had a dream to make a fabtastic listening area with video and audio and the ability to design it.

Buncha local gigs in between, then
1982 STRYDER SOUND, LITTLE ROCK, AR Engineer
Resume 2008–9 7/10/08 9:11 AM
Live recording and engineering for local acts, constructed custom speakers.
I built three garage recording studios with this group and played in a band with them.
This was a lot of custom boxes for JBL and Altec drivers.

Buncha more local gigs in between and then I moved to NYC and .....

1985 BIG APPLE STUDIOS, NEW YORK, NY Intern
24/48 track Neve 8068/Studer A820 studio Set up rooms, rough mixes, and learned recording, mic techniques, acoustical physics, billing, pricing, and client
relations. I learned Neve 8068 operation and mixing and Studer 24 track machine operation on 24 track Masters of Billy Joel, Bruce Springsteen, Richie Havens & Many others. Also did some (not much) session work as a musician.
I learned enough to have a headache for the rest of my life here. INVALUABLE experience, especially mixing SALSA, that is some great music. Still my favorite serious music to mix.
I got to work for Steve remote in the eighties for a few days helping gut and redo a truck. Steve rocks! Big influence!
Now for the HEAP I ended up in,
This is a few gigs summed into one big one because they overlapped a LOT like most do:

2000 PRESENT Freelance Engineer / National Talent Buyer/ Sound for Film & TV
MidasH3/Yam MC3212/ Crown/EAW LA325/Turbosound Flashlight/Protea/Driverack, DMX lighting, Tricaster video editing, FCPro audio for video sync, FOH and MON Engineer, Designed a Blues
Program and Booked national talent for two years, Designed two "Jam Nite" programs to increase audience on Monday & Tuesday
successfully. Improved sound and light system and Designed and installed new EAW/Crown/DBX/Yamaha/Lexicon FOH rig, and DMX light
system, freelanced excellent live recordings for acts. Own Soundcraft/HD-24/Protools 24+32 Track digital A/V studio, Location sound/boom
digital w/SMPTE ability, engineer recordings for artists, Post Audio for film, ADR and Foley for film including Fox National News (Whitewater
Trial remote), Artisan Multimedia AR (Simulcast to China for Clinton Admin), TVII Memphis TN (reconstruct, repair, foley, efx, adr, voiceover,
mix for feature length film "Dummy, A Love Story" )

1994 99 MP Productions FOH & Freelance Engineer
Yam 3k/crown/42 box EAW 850 Moved to Little Rock Arkansas. Mixed FOH for acts, freelance engineer, & teaching a class on audio
engineering. Mixed live music for radio simulcast, sound for video telecast for Fox National Network News, recordings for bands, live video shoot/
simulcast China.
This company was great, owner was great, NO DRAMA! I love them, but, I had to move.

1989 93 MONTANA STUDIOS Engineer
Many different configs /Yamaha/American/Soundcraft/A&H/Crest/Crown/QSC/BSS/Top of the line NYC showcase & rehearsal facility.
Engineered for many of the biggest international stars ever and many diverse styles, ethnicities, from many countries, many GRP Records
acts, Imago Records acts, & Electra, BMG, CAPITOL, Warner, ATCO, & Atlantic Records acts. Mixed live music recording for artist Kohei
Otomo’s Sony Documentary. Etc. I also freelanced as record label showcase engineer, and served as “live” recording engineer.
One of my favorite jobs, not much drama, tons of big stars.

1990 UNDERGROUND RECORDING STUDIOS Chief Engineer
Trident 80 Series/ MCI-2"24 Track Studio facility. Engineered “live” and "overdub" sessions for up and coming pop, grunge, rap, ska,
reggae, and “metal” bands & scheduled equipment maintenance by freelance personnel, billing, setting prices for services
Recorded a ton of up and comers here in the span of a few months. Marathons.

1993 THE BURNING FLAMES Band, Antigua FOH Engineer
Yamaha 3k/Crown EAW 850, Engineered FOH @ Club Harambee & the next year @ Madison Square Garden’s Paramount.(the old Felt
Forum).
I love these guys, they were great fun to mix and it's my soul music.

1990 SPO DEE O DEE House Engineer
Ramsa/Carver/EAW, Nightclub FOH featuring unadvertised major label acts.
This was a fun gig, anyone who remembers this place knows what a hot that club was. Tommy and Gerry, too much fun.

1989 JOE COCKER/CINDY BULLENS U.S. TOUR FOH Engineer
SC 800/Yam 3k/Crown/42 box EAW 850, Engineered East coast outdoor arena tour FOH for Cindy Bullens’ Band.
Musicians that could play well and very humble.

1989 THE LONESTAR ROADHOUSE House Engineer
Yamaha1.8k/Carver/Kliptch, Nightclub MON and FOH for major label and indie rock, soul, blues, jazz, & record label showcases etc.
Yet another wonderful gig. I mixed a ton of acts there and imprpomptu and scheduled allstar jams with a lot of heavy hitters.

1988 89 THE BOTTOM LINE, INC. House Engineer
Soundcraft 500/Crown DC-300/Chaos Audio CX & boxes, Premiere New York Showcase Room and Cabaret Theater for national and
international acts, I mixed record label showcases for some of the biggest acts on earth in soul, jazz, salsa, blues, rock, funk, Keltic,
Scottish, African, Afro-Cuban, and many others, Etc. also mixed Live simulcast to Japan for opening of Bottom Line in Japan. Alan and Stanley, what to say it was a peach. Neil was a great stage and lighting manager there. Tony, Vinnie, Donna, all stars too. Never forget John's "Beef BuhGUNdy".
This was another gig full of stars, tons of them, too many to mention, BUT, I have a list!
WHY?
Because, as my brother pointed out, I forgot to get PICTURES!, well, I was too busy.
Not one dark night for one year straight! That's right, no days off for a year! No subs either.
I went freelance after that, no one could understand why I was a little crabby after that. I am a brown person, but, after a year without seeing the sun, I was a white man. My color never fully came back. Still tooo many good/weird/silly memories.

There were numerous freelance gigs in between all of this stuff, too many to mention or remember them all, however, the all went well, that was the deal of how it kept going. It snowballed, I got most of the gigs I was able to go out for and had dry patches too, I ain't perfect, but, I always do my best even if I don't want to, other people aren't perfect either and I understand that. You never know where somebody has just been. Patience, a strong back, and good ears.
I'm going back to work after an extended hiatus from a sick child, a stalker trying to kill me, and a big move out of middle America.
My last few years is a real wake up call to the fact that if you are meant for work this biz you have no business in middle America unless you are passing through with a show and going back home to NYC or LA.
I will never leave again.
Good luck to both of us.

[Murton]

I first started getting interested when I was high school playing music and wanted to get a decent sound for my assessments.

I asked to join in on a youth run group who put on gigs at the school who had a PA from government funding.

I first watched how it was all done and then started helping out as much as I could at shows.

I then progressed to mixing the shows and eventually became the go to guy for mixing our shows we put on.

I then began helping a local band on their tours, lugging gear as well as mixing when we used our PA.

We upgraded our PA with a loan from the guitarists parents to put us independent from the youth program We began hiring out the PA and begun to be the port of call for all shows at a regional youth venue.

By that time I had around a year under my belt as was pretty confident with our system and I enrolled in a technical college course over two years, of which I am nearing the final quarter of.

The youth venue got a government grant to buy their own PA and subsequently offered positions to myself and the other member of our little group who half owned the PA with his guitarist in his band. So pretty much, due to us loosing business, we got government jobs doing sound at a youth venue on a pretty good system.

Our PA consists of JBL JRX dual 15" tops and 18" sub bins each side, with another set of JBL JRX dual 15" we use for drum fill, four behringer foldbacks, behringer amps, a 16/4 multicore, samson mic pack, 58's and 57's and a few DI's, behringer desk and crossover and compression. It is a pretty bad system in terms of quality, but it does well in small venues when only kick snare and vocals are pretty much in the mix, toms are miced, but only just in the mix, guitars very rarely.

The youth venue PA consists of JBL MRX Dual 15 tops and JBL MRX Dual 18" subs each side, a very nice sounding speaker system. dbx drive rack, Yamaha amps, 16/4 multicore, Yamaha MG24FX desk, Shure PG drum mic kit 58's for vocals, behringer instrument mics for guitars, DI's, dbx compressors, dbx graphics, 3x Yamaha foldbacks. A considerable setup for a room with a limit of 180.

I'm currently in the midst of purchasing a my own collection of decent mic's aswell as a LS9-16 and a tonne more gear as the amount of decent work I am getting has been increasing.

Pretty much, it has been a journey of being in the right place at the right time, volunteering my time to learn and help out, slowly gaining experience. I slowly got paid more and more money for my work, to the point where I have a casual part time job out of it. Add in study and dedication to learning at any opportunity and people will see you have the right attitude and will give you work.

I am hoping to get more venue work aswell as some decent touring work.

I'm currently in the process of making a studio with my partner to do demo and E.P. recordings aswell as building my rig to do FOH and location recording.

[Jay Kahrs]

Many years ago a drummer friend asked me if I'd come out to mix his band which had a month long residency at the infamous and now, sadly closed Stanhope House. Being a studio rat I wasn't too into the idea & somewhat nervous about it... but they dragged me out there.

Sometime during that month I met another FOH engineer who was hanging out, having drinks with friends... we exchanged numbers... couple weeks later I got a call from a band who had called him & he was already booked, so he gave them my number.

The rest, as they say is history.

I don't really look for live work but it has a tendency to find me.

FWIW - The Stanhope House is where Robert Randolph and a bunch of others got their start... an infamous blues roadhouse... Muddy Waters; Willie Dixon, Dr. John; SRV; Gov't Mule... you name 'em, they played there.

[memphisindie]

Stanhope House Sussex NJ, who was that engineer, what year?

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by memphisindie

Stanhope House Sussex NJ, who was that engineer, what year?

To be honest I can't remember if it was Rob Kalabrese (Kal) or Allison Goessling... I think it was Kal. This was probably about 12 years ago. Maureen was running the place...

Why 'ya asking?

[memphisindie]

I used to be in the area, but, it was 15-16 years ago. Thought I might know somebody, I think we may have met once, maybe a tour you were on.

[Jay Kahrs]

Could be... I get around!

Primarily East Coast club circuit... C & B level nationals.

I was also the house guy at the new Mexicali Blues in Teaneck NJ until early 2005... lots of bands came through that door, still do. Kal's over there now, went full time when I moved to Massachusetts.

[-Noodles-]

House engineer / crew (when shifts aren't available) in a 2,500 person venue.

Standard pay is £10 per hour, and £6 respectively.

Outside work, if you're a good band and we're friends ; £50 - 80 a night.
If we're not friends, it's £120 for 8 hours.

Started out by doing crew work, and showed my enthusiasm and patience. It paid off, and now I'm engineering and learning something about large scale shows every time I go to work. I still hone my craft at the little venues around town with my friends bands, and realize how easy I have it.

[GZsound]

I'm very impressed with some of the experience here.

I started running sound in 1972 simply because nobody else knew how to do it.

Five years full time on the road from 75-80 running sound for a six piece show band in Holiday Inns up and down the west coast.

From that point until ten years ago it's been running sound for various rock and roll, classic rock and show bands pretty much every weekend in bars, lounges, private parties, weddings, etc. ..

Ten years ago I started doing bluegrass festivals and events, acoustic festivals and events, small outdoor music festivals and small indoor stuff. Some three day festival gigs. I have a fairly small system by most standards, but it sounds great and I have a lot of business.

I charge $40 an hour including load in/out or $500 flat for a typical day long event.

And I think most "real" sound guys would laugh at my system..

[mbradzick]

Funny how old this thread is, yet it still gets attention!

Studio vs. live sound mixing job availability: where's the job growth?

Also, do you always have to start by lifting road cases? You don't get to assist a mixer for x amount of years then start mixing yourself? I know this sounds lazy but I for one would get eaten up by the dudes who've been lifting equipment all their lives. That's my impression so far.

Thanks for all the replies.

[bishopthomas]

Originally Posted by Michael Zick

Also, do you always have to start by lifting road cases? You don't get to assist a mixer for x amount of years then start mixing yourself?

Yep, you are correct. You don't get to only assist. Why pay two people when one can push cases AND mix bands?

[plexisys]

Also, do you always have to start by lifting road cases? You don't get to assist a mixer for x amount of years then start mixing yourself? I know this sounds lazy but I for one would get eaten up by the dudes who've been lifting equipment all their lives. That's my impression so far.

From my earlier post: Unless you can bring in a decent sized act to mix on your own don't plan on starting out as a mixer with a production compasy. Most companies want to bring you along, starting at the bottom and EARN your way up.

When you are on the road mixing is just a one part of your job. Even at the height of the music business there were really only a small number of "briefcase" mixers and they worked for the band.

[mbradzick]

Originally Posted by plexisys

From my earlier post: Unless you can bring in a decent sized act to mix on your own don't plan on starting out as a mixer with a production compasy. Most companies want to bring you along, starting at the bottom and EARN your way up.

When you are on the road mixing is just a one part of your job. Even at the height of the music business there were really only a small number of "briefcase" mixers and they worked for the band.

I gotcha. Then I guess my friend worked for the bands he toured with. He started off in a local club and after a couple years went on the road as their sound guy.

[plexisys]

For a production company they expect the engineer to be the smartest guy on the crew that can step in and do any job that needs to be done. You only get that from years of work.

Another factor that requires time is learning about all the different venues. There are tons of of considerations from loading in/out problems, are you going to stack or fly a system. How much gear can you get in, dealing with other acts on the bill, dealing with different union/nonunion crews, the fine line of joking and bitching at the lighting guys, and then finally how to get a decent sound in that venue.

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by Michael Zick

I gotcha. Then I guess my friend worked for the bands he toured with. He started off in a local club and after a couple years went on the road as their sound guy.

I don't know about your friend, but, if he was already familiar with their material, used to doing their sound and kicked butt consistently, he may not have had to push boxes, but, If you go to work for a touring company, you will be doing everything, pushing boxes, picking system parts, assembling entire systems, loading them in a truck, driving to venues, unloading, setting up, running soundchecks and shows, breaking down, rinse and repeat till the tour is over. I used to get off one show, go straight to another for days or weeks, get off that one and fly to a recording, fly back to get on a truck for another few days for another show, and when I was working for two or more companies, it was awesome. I pushed a $hitload of boxes, but, most shows, usually national or international acts, I mixed too. Lots of outdoor stuff from sheds to arenas, small to large.
Then I had kids and POOF!, I'm a clubsound guy for 1/2 rate. Steady and in town. It was usually wonderful. I learned to mix with my eyes closed, sleep mixing. Ha ha ha ha.

Yes, you will be eaten alive by the guys pushing the boxes all their lives, but, if you survive that, you'll have a bunch of rowdy-a$$ friends that always got your back. Be sure to reciprocate. They can help you build stuff in a day hat would take most people a year, all on beer fuel. They aren't afraid of extreme heat or cold either. Great company grilling out too. Need a bigass stereo for your house party? Don't tell your crw or truss will show up and a flying rig in your backyard with a live band made up of your crew will rock your neighborhood.
Man I miss touring.

[plexisys]

Yes, you will be eaten alive by the guys pushing the boxes all their lives, but, if you survive that, you'll have a bunch of rowdy-a$$ friends that always got your back. Be sure to reciprocate. They can help you build stuff in a day hat would take most people a year, all on beer fuel. They aren't afraid of extreme heat or cold either. Great company grilling out too. Need a bigass stereo for your house party? Don't tell your crw or truss will show up and a flying rig in your backyard with a live band made up of your crew will rock your neighborhood.

I still talk almost everyday with some of my friends who I toured with going back to the 70s. Touring will make you friends and enemies for life. Other than being a pirate I can't think of a better life.

[mbradzick]

How the hell did you guys manage relationships (long enough to have kids at least) while gone so much of the time?

[mbradzick]

Originally Posted by plexisys

Other than being a pirate I can't think of a better life.

Really? I thought all that downloading got kinda boring after a while