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power conditioner for live use?
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#31
18th November 2009
Old 18th November 2009
  #31
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I'm having the same pops and clicks issues as Ol Betsey and am certain it has to do with voltage spikes. The only recording hardware I'm using is the ProFire 2626 so I wouldn't need a heavy duty unit to handle these spikes. What specific device (as cheap as possible!) would you recommend to take care of these problems?

Thanks!
vaas
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#32
18th November 2009
Old 18th November 2009
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For an in-home, non-travelling rig with that runs on the system listed in your profile, you could get away with an APC Line-R 1200VA, which has voltage regulation and surge suppression. It's a regular 15A circuited, breakered device. Have a look online, you can get it for 40-50 bucks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vaas View Post
I'm having the same pops and clicks issues as Ol Betsey and am certain it has to do with voltage spikes. The only recording hardware I'm using is the ProFire 2626 so I wouldn't need a heavy duty unit to handle these spikes. What specific device (as cheap as possible!) would you recommend to take care of these problems?

Thanks!
vaas
#33
25th November 2009
Old 25th November 2009
  #33
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Red face

What a great thread. Ac regulation is quite boring. But learning the hard way sucks donkey balls. I just spent 900$ on a power supply for a mac.

Just wondering why no one has mentionned APC brand. I am checking out the BR1200. I want to protect my quad g5 from another meltdown!!!!!

Any reservations aganst this model?



Oh yeah what is up with pure sine output . How importnat is that for my g5? Imtold that the g5 power supply is deadly sensitive!!!!!!!
#34
25th November 2009
Old 25th November 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fifthcircle View Post
I also carry a small APC UPS that I use for my computer. That has saved me on more than one occasion as well.
--Ben
APC was mentioned at least once, not a specific model but the brand name.
#35
25th November 2009
Old 25th November 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen View Post
For an in-home, non-travelling rig with that runs on the system listed in your profile, you could get away with an APC Line-R 1200VA, which has voltage regulation and surge suppression. It's a regular 15A circuited, breakered device. Have a look online, you can get it for 40-50 bucks.
Thanks for the advice bro

Too bad the device only has 4 outputs: 1 PC, 1 monitor, 1 audio interface, 1 speaker
#36
26th November 2009
Old 26th November 2009
  #36
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power conditioning vs UPS

FWIW, I've been running the Equi=Tech 1.5 model for nearly a decade now. In fact, 'til I saw this thread, I forgot it was installed. All the electronics run off of it. When I first got it, I was stunned at how much cleaner and quieter my mixer ran. Unless your electronics use a balanced PS internally, some line noise is going to get through. How much can you tolerate? If you're going to be in the audio business for many decades, the cost is trivial. BTW, I've used it with my mobile rig, and some venues are particularly noisy.

The Equi=Tech is not a UPS, and if you're working where power outages are likely, or where you cannot tolerate a power outage, seems like it's a no brainer. It goes before not after the Equi=Tech.
#37
1st December 2009
Old 1st December 2009
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Just one more thing. The cheap Furmans are no good for my purpose? Something like this: FURMAN PL-8E II - Dutch International Cyberstore?
They have more outputs but I here a lot of bad rep about the Furman stuff.

Or if I'd go with the APC, doesn't it matter if the speakers or monitor are not connected to this device?

Just wondering
#38
1st December 2009
Old 1st December 2009
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Or you guys telling me that these 2 Furman PL-Plus Series II that I paid over $200 each are doing nothing?!?!?!?!??!

Are you all telling me that that a power strip from the dollar store would do the same thing?

What about the filtering and noise surpression that they offer? I am not talking about remote work or UPS but for a dedicated power conditioner that goes in the racks at the studio?

I called my self not buying the cheap stuff and thought I was getting something for the money I spent!?!?!?!

It has to be some mis-information here! It just has to be!
#39
2nd December 2009
Old 2nd December 2009
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I guess not...
#40
2nd December 2009
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The PL Plus is useless. Sorry for the bad news. Had one in the studio and got a surge (prolonged voltage at 135+ volts). DWP said there was nothing wrong to me while I had a volt meter in the socket. Fuse blew in the PL Plus, but fried 3 or 4 of the Varistors. Unfortunately not before it killed 3 pieces of gear in the rack. That day I threw the PL PLus away and bought an AR-1215 which actually regulates voltages. That has worked fine for me.



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#41
2nd December 2009
Old 2nd December 2009
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So what would the power signal chain ideally look like.

first your UPS if you got one, next what voltage regulator, conditioner's that kind of stuff?
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#42
2nd December 2009
Old 2nd December 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fifthcircle View Post
The PL Plus is useless. Sorry for the bad news. Had one in the studio and got a surge (prolonged voltage at 135+ volts). DWP said there was nothing wrong to me while I had a volt meter in the socket. Fuse blew in the PL Plus, but fried 3 or 4 of the Varistors. Unfortunately not before it killed 3 pieces of gear in the rack. That day I threw the PL PLus away and bought an AR-1215 which actually regulates voltages. That has worked fine for me.



-Ben
Hey not bad news at all just a wake up call because I was getting ready to get another one. I can tell you this though, I had hum in a couple of my synths and after the Furman it went away. Why do you think that is?

I could have accomplished the same thing with one of those ground lift thingys from hardware store too but at least all equipment is still grounded.

I for one don't even use the lights on the thing, but it seems kinda sick that they offer units at different price points and they are doing nothing......

So when they say noise filtering what do they mean? Are they just talking out the side of thier asses becuase the Furman got rid of my noise issues?.........
#43
3rd December 2009
Old 3rd December 2009
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Vaas-
You don't have to run your speakers or monitor on the UPS, if the power goes, you want enough time to backup your data.
If you REALLY want to, you can plug an outlet strip in the the back of the APC. But don't overload the circuit.

Those Furmans... yeah, I bought several of them too. They aren't worth anything. I have been inside them- nothing useful. It's NOT a conditioner. They have a cheap ferrite filter, and an MOV- which means, one spike, then it blows- and the next spike, goes right to your equipment. Don't trust them. Equitech, Tripplite, Surge-Ex have all committed to make big in-roads with power. Furman calls their power conditioning but it's not the same thing. It's really just distribution designed to be an improvement over a plug-strip with some rack lites. Furman does lots of other good things though, and they DO make a voltage regulator- but it's a very specific piece.

JvB

Quote:
Originally Posted by vaas View Post
Just one more thing. The cheap Furmans are no good for my purpose? Something like this: FURMAN PL-8E II - Dutch International Cyberstore?
They have more outputs but I here a lot of bad rep about the Furman stuff.

Or if I'd go with the APC, doesn't it matter if the speakers or monitor are not connected to this device?

Just wondering
#44
3rd December 2009
Old 3rd December 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BFSound View Post
So what would the power signal chain ideally look like.

first your UPS if you got one, next what voltage regulator, conditioner's that kind of stuff?
Voltage regulator, then UPS. If you use a balancing system like an Equi-tech is should go in front of the regulator if it can handle voltage swings, and after it if it can't. The "power conditioner" is often not that. Depends on what you are buying. Beware snake oil products. Do some research before you buy.
#45
3rd December 2009
Old 3rd December 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen View Post
Vaas-
You don't have to run your speakers or monitor on the UPS, if the power goes, you want enough time to backup your data.
If you REALLY want to, you can plug an outlet strip in the the back of the APC. But don't overload the circuit.

Those Furmans... yeah, I bought several of them too. They aren't worth anything. I have been inside them- nothing useful. It's NOT a conditioner. They have a cheap ferrite filter, and an MOV- which means, one spike, then it blows- and the next spike, goes right to your equipment. Don't trust them. Equitech, Tripplite, Surge-Ex have all committed to make big in-roads with power. Furman calls their power conditioning but it's not the same thing. It's really just distribution designed to be an improvement over a plug-strip with some rack lites. Furman does lots of other good things though, and they DO make a voltage regulator- but it's a very specific piece.

JvB
Thanks Jim, that's very useful info!!!
#46
3rd December 2009
Old 3rd December 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen View Post
Voltage regulator, then UPS. If you use a balancing system like an Equi-tech is should go in front of the regulator if it can handle voltage swings, and after it if it can't. The "power conditioner" is often not that. Depends on what you are buying. Beware snake oil products. Do some research before you buy.
Cool thanks, as for the "power conditioner" goes i use tripp lite thumbsup Love they're products. What's a good AC regulator?
#47
3rd December 2009
Old 3rd December 2009
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Another quick question i have a few of the tripp lite ISOBAR12ULTRA, surge protectors and they have 6 50/60 hz 120v outlets on the back and 4 15A, What kinds of things would i plug into the 15A outlets? Vs the 120v outlets?

Thanks
#48
4th December 2009
Old 4th December 2009
  #48
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pl-plus good news story

Hi all,

I just got back from a very rural location project in Kenya. We were basically at the end of the line. I was using a 20lb 220->110 step down transformer, and then the furman pl-plus c. What do I know? I purchased it from a fairly reputable recording shop in Montreal at the salesperson's recommendation. Anyway, it's definitely more than a power bar.

Generally, the voltage meter showed about 126... well into the red. Our third week, the AC went crazy. Wild voltage swings (as measured by the gauge on the furman)... room lights flickering so you couldn't stand it. I tested it with the furman multiple times a day... the first few times with all my gear plugged in, like an idiot. (Aurora 8, SCA 8 channel pre, Digi 002) Anyway, long story short: either the furman didn't power up at all, or the lights jumped around for a bit and then the extreme voltage light came on. No gear damage. Hallelujah. So there you go... real life, positive, noob experience with the Furman pl-plus c... and I did watch a power bar smoke, by the by.

darryl
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