Best All Tube Bass Amp for live performance / recording?

[Blast9]

I am wanting to get the best possible bass tone/amp for recording only

Have you considered the small Ampeg combos?

[Infa]

Originally Posted by Blast9

Have you considered the small Ampeg combos?

Thanks blast for responding to my question(s).

Well, I don't know too much about the entire Ampeg line up, hence my questions.

Did they make small Ampeg combos in the early 70's that had the same characteristics of the SVT Blue Line models ? If so, do you have any specific model names I should be looking for ?

I basically want that Blue Line era (Lindin, NJ made) sound/character/tone/magic in something (combo or head) that is not so many watts - - (No reissues, nothing new, etc..) -If possible -

Or hear someone with more knowledge than me on the subject say I'll get the same tone with the 300w one when only using the volume up to normal recording levels.

[Blast9]

I'm afraid I know nothing about the history!

I've heard first-hand various VST "classic" heads of various vintages, and the modern Mark 3 and 4 heads through Ampeg 8 x 10s and there is something inherently loose and boomy which I don't like about the cabs for that "vintage" fingerstyle "warm" sound.

Great for edgy pick-style rock bass - When you get some rock n roll grind happening its definitely power tube distortion, but its damn loud!

OTOH I've heard some nice fat punchy "70s" bass sounds that I know were recorded through a mic'd up b-15 combo - big sound at manageable volume.

[FFTT]

I've had my Reeves Custom 225 now long enough to know that I made a wise decision for tone and build quality.
My '73 8X10 SVT cab gets the tones, but I do have to be careful not to push
the 37 year old CTS AlNiCos too hard.

If I were looking for a recording ONLY rig, I would look for a vintage Ampeg
B-18 head, but run it through a single 15" EVM15L or a Hiwatt/Reeves Custom 100 also through one or two EVM15Ls.

It's been a while since I recorded in a pro studio, but remember that 80%+
of the tone came from the DI signal.
So really, all you need is an amp to add some life in a complimentary
track to the DI signal.

You can accomplish this with almost any big block 100 watt guitar head
run through a strong 15" driver.

For live use and for recording, the Reeves Custom 225 delivers some of the best tones I've ever experienced.

Keep in mind how many of the all time greatest British rock bass tones
came from a Hiwatt circuit.

I nearly pulled the trigger on a super clean all original '72 SVT Blue Line,
but decided against the weight, the cost to re-tube with NOS Glass, the fan noise and past issues with some component failures on the PCB.

[Infa]

Hey right on guys for taking the time to give me this info.

FFTT, I have a chance to pick up a early 70's Ampeg B-25 (Lindin, NJ one !), it is a head like the SVT but at 55w (seems perfect), now would that be just as good as your B-18 recommendation ? Or was/is there something about the B-18 that made it better than the B-25 for my musical approach ?

See, the B-18 is a "combo"/ portaflex unit right ? And if I am not mistaken, the woofer on it is like 18" right ? Or at least a 15". Now I could be wrong, or just a rookie, but from my experience and the bass I like, I like to use smaller speakers. The bigger speakers are just too boomy and the bass isn't tight enough. IMO Also, them bigger speakers lose some higher frequencies I actually like in my bass. So unless I am just a idiot, and can be pointed in a better direction, I was thinking I wanted a head (but one of the vintage quality we are talking about in the Blue Line SVT's) and then I could get a high end boutique'y cab made with my choices of speakers... ? Bad idea ? Or no ? Anyway, this is why I was leaning towards a B-25 head. Or, hell if I have to, a Blue Line SVT. But if a combo would be better for what I'm trying to do, just say so. Thats why I am asking, lol.

BTW, yea you are right. Mostly when recording guitars (bass included), I mult the signal. One goes DI and the other goes to a Cab for mic'ing. So yes, that is the approach here, but admitingly, it doesn't always happen that way 100% of the time.

So what do you think ? Cabinet aside for now, just thinking about the best head for tonal pallet purposes, B-18 ?, B-12 ? Or my head idea with a B-25 ? even a Vintage V-4 maybe ? Or literally something common and simple like a vintage Blackface Bassman, Mesa, etc... ? Or just go for gusto, why take chances, and get a vintage VST Blue Line ? What ? And mostly,,,,, Why ?

Thanks !!

[FFTT]

I was thinking something like the B-18 head from a flip top combo, but
just run the head into a 15" or your choice of 10's rather than the stock 18"

The B-25 should also do the trick.

I was a hard core SVT lover and still agree they are very tough to beat for
live concert work, but way overkill for recording.

I was ready to pay $2300.00 for that super clean Blue Line and it would have
been an excellent investment in that condition, but a rough one, as many are, can be quite a money pit if you need to re-tube with good USA glass or have to replace a transformer or deal with failed PCB components.
85 pounds also gets really heavy at 4:00 AM with no help to unload.

My Reeves 225, is a 2 holer, 2 channel design based on the Hiwatt DR-201 circuit, but EQ'd for bass. It also makes a killer Live At Leeds guitar amp in the bright channel or with both channels jumped together.
The tones are amazingly rich warm and detailed.

[Blast9]

^ The Ox!thumbsup

[The Real MC]

I got very good results recording with the SVP-Pro preamp - no cabs to mic.

If you want to mic a cab, the SVT3-Pro can be found for $350. Gets that classic SVT punch with my PV 2x15 cab.

The FIRST thing you must do with any SLM Ampeg is to pop the hood and replace the stock chinese tubes with Rubys or JJs or Groove Tubes. The tone and S/N will improve a LOT.

[craig9045]

Originally Posted by Pasta4lnch

I'd be psyched to check out the Orangethumbsup

Same

[FFTT]

Over in the EU, if you can't find an original Hiwatt DR-201 or 401, you
might look at the Weber Mywatt 200 or 400.

[earwighoney]

It's not massively powerful but the Ashdown amp Ashdown Engineering | Bass Amplification Little B*stard is 30w and isn't that expensive too.

Ashdown Little Bastard, - Online Music Store | Sounds Live

Personally, I'd just go for a Orange Bass Terror. Which isn't all valve, just a valve preamp. With that I would match with a MB series Gallien Krueger cabinet. The head weighs around 10lbs, and the cab 16lbs. Might not be that powerful, but nice to carry around.

As for recording, IK Multimedia's Ampeg SVX plugin is truly excellent. A plugin but still truly excellent.

[CrownBox]

Best of both worlds for me is Eden DC210 Metro, though that model has been discontinued.

[nedorama]

Having gone to school down the street in Hillside in the early 80's, it's Linden, NJ, not Lindin; Hilgen amps, which were an offshoot of Ampeg and featured ex-Ampeg employees; I had an old Basso Grande head and a 1x15 cab as my first amp for bass, and then later guitar.

While not in the class of the SVT, our bass player has been happy with his B50R combo with a Radial JDI in front of it; for small clubs it does OK; with the PA with good subs (we usually have SRX/VRX) it's more bass than you'll need.

[FFTT]

Here ya go!

[softwareguy]

I'm amazed that no one has suggested an Ampeg V4 until now. Same circuit as the SVT, but only 4 power tubes. Cheaper, weighs less, breaks up sooner. Same awesome Ampeg tone.

[Jax]

Originally Posted by Infa

Sorry to bring this thread back, but I am wanting to get the best possible bass tone/amp for recording only. No large live shows, giggin, etc... BUT did want to mic the bass.

Since you don't really need a bass amp, get a REDDI. I would bet money it puts out one of the best bass sounds you'll ever hear. A Designs Audio - Reddi Tube Direct Box

Then just mic up whatever 50 or 100 watt guitar amp you have around to get the 'live' bass sound, since so many recordings use a ton more of the DI signal anyway.

[badhorsie777]

Agree with the above poster - when I use Ampeg SVX as a plugin, I usually don't blend in more than 30%. The rest is a DI from my demeter bass pre LOVE that thing - I'm gonna be buried with it!

-Matt

[Rozey]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Cool bass amp. Apples to the SVT's Oranges..both taste great.

A few years ago I walked into a local music store to get an SVT head and 4x10. I had previously owned the solid state SVT350(I think it was) but always loved the tube SVT heads. They had an Orange ad200b head on an Orange 4x10 next to an SVT on an 8x10 "refrigerator". I AB'd them back and forth for awhile and even swapped cabinets a few times. I will say that that particular SVT did have THAT SVT sound. Some of the newer SVTs do not. In the end I went with the Orange. At 200W it just 'almost' got into the realm of that solid, beautiful, round 300W SVT bass tone (I later found that that the fix for this was the volume knob...Who'da thunk it?). But having said that, I could not make the Orange produce a bad sound whereas I could EQ the SVT into an irritating thinness or an extra muddy nothingness. The sales guy told me the EQ on the Orange was "interactive" in that changing one of the 3 EQ knobs would effect the tonal qualities of the other two knobs. I don't know about that, but I do like the EQ and this is the first amp where I can really pump the mids if I want. Also, the dirty tones are to die for. The ad200b sits next to my '67 Portaflex b15. I love them both and I don't think I've moved teh EQ on either amp from 'flat' in a couple of years. There is no need. Whereas I think back to all the GK's, Trace Elliot's, and BS I've used over the years I'm really happy with what I have.

I did play one of those newer Fender Bassman 2x10s and a 1x15 that I thought were pretty Stellar. I want the 2x10.

[Blast9]

Unfortunately Ampeg has suffered because of the recent changes.

I have to say the Ampeg all tube SVT stuff/8 x 10 combination is all over the place as far as consistency, but it is nice when you get the good ones

[pasarireng]

For Live Performance (onstage) arguably it's Ampeg SVT..but for recording I prefer Ampeg B15.
Very rarely use amp for record bass tho.. Avalon VT737SP (tube pre-comp-eq) to the DAW is my normal chain.

[FFTT]

I'm totally happy with my Reeves 225.

Reeves now offers a 400, but I can't imagine
needing more power than 256 watts RMS in the 225.

I already have to be careful with the vintage SVT 8X10 CTS AlNiCo 10's
and the 225 is powerful enough to put them at risk if I'm not careful.

The Reeves is quiet, built like a tank and needs no cooling fan.

[Beaver Tim]

my Fender Bassman 100 never let me down! I think it's pretty comfy because not that much tubes, easy to fix, not that heavy, OK!
Onstage or in the studio it's just killer tone, such as Hiwatt, Mesa 400, and many more...depends what you need.
I really enjoy SVTs too, but it's quite different, and I have to mention that the ultra low position has always sounded strange to me?

[KRStudio]

Ampeg SVT used to be my fave. I bought a Marshall JCM800 series 2000 and that has been my choice amp for 12 years now. Still have the 72 SVT but it gets 10% of the use it used to. Only 96 of the Marshalls were made and 375 watts they are a beast of an amp. It seems like the low fundamental of each note is an octave lower than the Ampeg. Unbelievable amp but heavy as hell.

[Zeljko]

I bought a 73' Hiwatt Custom 100 on Ebay few months ago, and I enjoy great guitar AND bass sounds in my studio.

For bass I used to use a new Ampeg SVT 4x10 HEN , but now I prefer a vintage 2x10 Ampeg SVT HEN Classic box with Hiwatt.
Miced and DI'd, very pleased...

For guitar - Hiwatt and Marshall 1969'Pre Rola box sounds really great...

[frans]

The Weber Mywatt things are good, but the one I heard didn't come close to a real Hiwatt DR, of which I have been playing a few.

On top of that I heard a lot of bass amps mixing FOH and trying stuff in shops and on fairs, owning a host of different models. Trace Elliot tube heads: spongy, like the Eden. Trace Elliot transistor amps: ace build quality and lasts forever, totally different sound. Acoustic transistor amps: great! Good breakup. I never came across an SVT that - to me - sounded even halfway as "boot in face" like a Hiwatt DR (if the PSU in there has fresh caps). I wanted the SVTs to sound good..I tried many different models, originals, reissues, whatever. Bassman, Blackface in like-new condition: pfff.. not even close. Orange? Had old and new ones.. pffff... some old ones were junk, a few of the new ones much better.
Hiwatt. Hiwatt. Reeves. End of story.

If you play on the clean side, a lot of amps get you there in style. Get a REDDI or a SWR interstellar overdrive and be done for recording, really.

If you want a good tone which keeps it's punch, "hardness" and breaks up controlled, musical ... Hiwatt DR, Reeves ..

If you hook up my Hiwatt DR103 with two loud cabs, it blows loud drummers away. The key word is "good cab", there are huge differences in quality and SPL.

[Blast9]

Nice tight punchy tube grind

[FFTT]

As someone who really loved his vintage '73 SVT,

I have to be straight with people, The Reeves 225 sounds better, richer
and more natural.

[Ngr]

I recently recorded with an Ampeg V4B, very very impressed.
It provides the same growl of the SVT but it is way lighter.
Great amp.