Music Man HD120 vs. Fender Twin Reverb

[soupking]

What's the difference? (and I really mean the "One Twenty, not the 120")

Also there's other NOS version of the same thing. It all seems kind of vague. I'm going for an old school vintage tone, but is there much difference? And if so, can it be described at least?

[Will Box]

The Music Man is a nice amp but not the same as a Twin. It has a transistor preamp stage and valve power stage. Some older versions used EL34, later ones 6L6GC. Lovely clean tone, not so lovely when overdriven.

[Meriphew]

I've had a couple of Twin Reverbs in the past, and currently own a MM Sixty Five Reverb head. IMO, the MM is right there in sound. Beautiful Fender'ish cleans.

[soupking]

My Music Man HD has tubes, I don't believe it has a transistor. It probably has that lovely clean tone you're talking about cuz it does. I was wondering how that differs from a Fender Twin.

[chetatkinsdiet]

I was under the impression that at least one stage of the pre amp was solid state. Are you sure you have 2-3 12AX7 tubes in there? In addition to the power tubes?

I've got schematics here for just about everything...I'll look it up now. Ping me with the actual model number you're asking about...and year.
m

[Midlandmorgan]

MusicMan made several models, and a few variations on the more popular ones...The older script number amps are THE ones to have, as they use a 12AX7 as an inverter and EL34 power tubes...one major problem was only 1/2 of the 12AX7 was used, which when experiening long term high power use, gave it up, thus taking out the output transformer.... as long as they aren't pushed really hard, they remain stable and sweet...

the numeric versions (65, 130) got rid the tube inverter and went transistor - still a good sounding amp, just not a great one like the originals...MM also had a couple of RD (Reverb/Distortion) amps (I have and use one weekly) that for clean are GREAT but kinda suck at distortion...The RP was the same amp, but had a phasor instead of a distortion circuit...all the RD/RPs (that I know of) use 6L6s, but a pair put out 100 watts (something like 700 plate volts...)

The Holy Grail for MM amps is the RD50...really the first line amp ever to cascade tube preamp sections...these things just flat whomp for just about anything you want them to do....they are pretty rare now...also available in custom colors (white and purple come to mind, and there are rumors of a factory blue tolex out there)...

As far as a head to head (pun alert) comparison between a BF Twin and a script MM, I've always prefered the MM (had both, ditched the Twins)...

Bonus with the script MM head - unlike a Twin, you are not limited to speakers...hook it up to a 1-15 cab (D130, etc) and you have the warmest steel amp or jazzer you could ever desire....

[soupking]

Hi guys,

I'm not really sure of the tubes inside. All I know is that there are 4 glass tubes in back that have to warm up in order for the sound to come out. I assume those are the power tubes. They have an orange glow that's really pretty. The amp sounds really warm too, very bluesy, Eric Claptonesque.

The cool thing is it's a bass amp, but it works just as well for guitar. And as for distortion, I don't know about distortion, but I plugged my BK Butler blues driver in this thing with high Bias and it Wails.

I was just wondering what the difference might sound like between a Fender Twin, or at this point an AC10. These are hard to come by in a taste test. however, I'm interested in diversifying my guitar sound.

[max cooper]

dude, that amp is nothing like a Fender, but I absolutely fooking love Music Man HD's.

I've had several over the years.

Know who used to use 'em?

Joe Perry around the time of "Aerosmith Live Bootleg" and also Clapton around "Money and Cigarettes" era.

Oh, and Kim Thayil used 'em for the first couple of Soundgarden records. He used Peavey cabs.

Put good toobes in it. hitt

I used to buy 'em up out of the Recycler until my GF told me we'd have to get a bigger house. They're gems.

Silverface Twins are "bonky" sounding by comparison. I love using them with Celestion Greenbacks, which is not what they would have had originally, I think.

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by soupking

I'm not really sure of the tubes inside. All I know is that there are 4 glass tubes in back that have to warm up in order for the sound to come out. I assume those are the power tubes. They have an orange glow that's really pretty. The amp sounds really warm too, very bluesy, Eric Claptonesque.

6L6's

Get it set up (biased) to run on two.

The deal is to overdrive the amp section, not the preamp section. This is how Clapton used them. He always said he didn't like master vol. amps.

Running on two tubes will let the amp section break up at lower volume.

Keep the last vol (amp section) all the way up and use the preamp vol. as "the" volume control.

[soupking]

Running on two tubes will let the amp section break up at lower volume.

Keep the last vol (amp section) all the way up and use the preamp vol. as "the" volume control.

How do I bias my amp? I've never heard of that before. Do I just keep the Master at full and only tweek the channel volume?

[Midlandmorgan]

If its a script model, its almost 100% that it uses EL34s...putting 6L6s in there will burn out your output transformer...or worse, take out everything anywhere near the amp.

As far as biasing, google MusicMan amps - there is a pretty comprehensive site dedicated to these fine beasts, with some tips on biasing and so on...most material that I've seen suggests to have a qualified tech do it, due to the stupidly high voltages inside (yes, they can and will KILL YOU if you make the wrong connection somehow)

And yes, Max, my Aspen book on tube amps states the early script models used EL34...the pinouts are totally different, although the sockets are the same.

Another MM guy has been Johnny Winter...been using the HD130-410s for eons...Chet Atkins used them, and Albert Lee gained his famed tone thru them when working with EmmyLou Harris...Waddy Wachtel used one on "Bette Davis Eyes"...Redd Volkaert has also been seen with them, as have Lenard Skynard (new version), Rodney Crowell, etc...I believe either Fletcher or Jules also have them...

[soupking]

If its a script model, its almost 100% that it uses EL34s

Yeah, it's a "One-Twenty". My friend insisted I get it since it was selling for like $350. He said it was pre-Ernie Ball. I didn't know what that meant at the time, but I figured he knew what he was talking about.

As far as biasing, google MusicMan amps - there is a pretty comprehensive site dedicated to these fine beasts, with some tips on biasing and so on...most material that I've seen suggests to have a qualified tech do it, due to the stupidly high voltages inside (yes, they can and will KILL YOU if you make the wrong connection somehow)

I'm one of the worst solderererers I know. I'd probably burn the building down before I got through soldering guitar inputs. I'd probably ask my buddy Chaz, hes been a guitar tech for like 10 years. Thanks for the warning though, death sucks.

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by Midlandmorgan

And yes, Max, my Aspen book on tube amps states the early script models used EL34...the pinouts are totally different, although the sockets are the same.

Yes, you're totally right.

I shoulda be kilt for that.

I dunno what to say except there's been this fog creeping into my memory of late, and it's starting to obscure trivial stuff, and yet, I fear that important details are gonna be on the chopping block next.

Originally Posted by soupking

death sucks.

Hey, wait. How do you know?

[soupking]

Quote:
Originally Posted by soupking View Post
death sucks.

Hey, wait. How do you know?

Because there's plenty of it going around. Supply and demand homie, over 40 billion served.

Peace,
-soupking

[Bocephys]

I find that my Sixty-Five Bass Amp head paired with my RH-118 Cabinet is the vintage sound I have hunted for all my life. Play a set of P-90s and listen to these babies sing. Wish it had onboard FX however I use a cheap Alesis Midiverb 4 for reverb and time delay fx. Overdrive sounds good enough to gig with but oh the cleans are to die for.

[Nu-tra]

My first real amp was a hd130 head with 4x12 cab. Then I found a Rd100 head and a musicman open back 2x12. It's not the ported cab. I haven't seen these cabs anywhere so I kinda got lucked out. I kinda like the distortion in it... It's got that early B52's mud to it. Fun to play through cause it's a mean muddy sound haha. I use this amp to layer and to play big mean fuzzy/muddy chords. I don't care for the reveb much in the RD It's not as good as the HD. My RD 100 takes two 6L6's and it's got a huge transformer to pump out 100 watts.

I love it.