Setting up a 5 string guitar for open G "Keith Richards" / Stones style playing....

[Jules]

Confession 1

I am a Stones nut

Confession 2

I learned to play a lot of the open tuning tracks using the WRONG open tuning (I thought they were all done in open E - oops! My bad!) Hence I can make the rhythm sound pretty damn close to the albums and 70's live recordings - but as soon as it comes to anything beyond the suspended chord additions (they sound just fine in open E) I am totally screwed, I can't do any of the cool open G riff work in open E.. Bah!...

Any how - that out of the way, I want to now set up a 2nd gtr just for 5 string open G to RE START my Keef riff learning journey..

My Basic Beer Budget plan:

Have 1972 Gibson Les Paul Standard - keep that regular tuning
Buy cheapo Squire Tele (copy) with P90 copy pick ups(?)- make that my open G 5 string axe ? (this was suggested by a nice guitar shop dude)
Or how about a vintage double cut away LP Junior with a P90 ? (are there any good / modern copies out there?)

Any thoughts ? ./ Suggestions to help me along the way..? Tips for configuring a dedicated open G tuned gtr?

I have Irig + Amplitude on my iPhone for playing along to learn songs at home on headphones..

Thanks in advance..

P.S. - I will soon be using POS rented rehearsal room amps to mess around in a band playing basic rock covers - is there a pedal I should look at getting to cheer the sound up? A dynacomp? (but thats more a Pete Townsends thing isn't it?)

Affordable "Keef like" gtr configuration suggestions!

(I always wanted a Tele anyways! Yahooo!!)

START ME UP!

[AndyFromDenver]

Haha. Just set up the guitar and the right tuning and the rest will work itself out
you don't necessarily have to lose the low e but that's cool to have an exclusive guit for it.
In an old band we occasionally covered stones and I did regular tuning.
... I was young and stupid
You gotta do the open tuning to do the songs justice.

[Dervish Riff]

You sound like you're on the right track, I'd just go with heavier A and D strings to get a little more body for rhythms.

I'd try something like a Tube Screamer with the gain turned down to rough things up a bit if you can't crank up your amp.

[Jules]

Isn't it the top / high string that gets removed?

Thanks folks.

[Dervish Riff]

You want to pull the low E string--Keef thinks it builds too much mud on an electric turned up. I can see his point in a band with two guitars, even though I've always left all six strings on my slide guitar in open G.

[trippy]

Originally Posted by Jules

Isn't it the top / high string that gets removed?

Thanks folks.

as he said, take off the low (thick) E string. Tune the A down to G, leave the D, G, and B strings alone, tune the high (thin) E down to D

tune the B a touch flat compared to where the tuner tells you to, it'll sound better!

and I'd go with the tele/P90's

[Jules]

Ah!

I am getting somewhere!

Thanks v much

[Jules]

If you are removing strings.... Do you simply have an empty area where the low E was? or do you shift em along one so the A string sits in the Low E string guides?

Thanks.

[Jules]

Gah!

I just read somewhere he keeps another gtr in open B!

Sheesh!

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by Dervish Riff

I'd try something like a Tube Screamer with the gain turned down to rough things up a bit if you can't crank up your amp.

I'd try something like a Tube Screamer with the gain turned up; I'd wanna hit a clean amp (Fender or Ampeg) hard. But also dial the distortion (on the TS9) way down.

[Jules]

Thanks!

[AndyFromDenver]

Originally Posted by Jules

If you are removing strings.... Do you simply have an empty area where the low E was? or do you shift em along one so the A string sits in the Low E string guides?

Thanks.

If he doesn't that's actually a pretty cool idea.

[soundbarnfool]

I could be wrong about this but I don't think so: I think you are after open "C" tuning with low C left out. This is an archaic tuning documented in a guitar tuning book I picked up about 20 years ago. So: CGCGCE I've used this tuning on a few songs and it really puts you into a different place harmonically- one five one five one with the third on top is fantastic.

At some point I read that Keef was using this tuning and then when I listened I said Oh Yeah. With Charlie Watts' kick I guess you don't need the low C.

You are gonna love this tuning.

I just bought a pair of NEVE 1073LB's with accompanying EQ sections! My first foray into the 500 world.

Jordan Chassan
Inglewood SoundBarn

[Jules]

More research about Keefs gtrs shows photos of the bass string missing and indeed a big space where it used to be, further digging reveals tales that the strings were all SLIGHTLY moved towards the empty space, not so much to even things out but to stop the top high string from slipping off the fretboard. (which I can well imagine on a Tele when doing bar chords a lot )

[NoPro]

I'd keep the guitar's integrity by just tuning it open g and leaving the e string on... Just avoid playing the e string..... Lose your own itegrity though and it will sound just like keef ... Hah! Kidding.

[Brent Hahn]

I've never found it necessary to completely remove the E string. I just loosen it enough that it'll pop out of the nut and then I drag it over the side. Easy peezy.

[Dave Webster]

take off the bottom E string altogether. You can't move the strings over because the nut slots won't fit. I find standard tuning does the job pretty wel for most stones stuff. That barre chord, minor 7 shape covers quite a lot of it.
Home brew electronics Powerscreamer is my OD of choice. Sounds like a tweed bassman. With extra boost and diode switch.

[Lee Flier]

Hi Jules!

Most of these folks are correct - you take the low E string off, tune the A string down to G and the high E down to D. Keith had a couple of guitars customized as 5 strings where they had a custom made bridge and nut, but mostly he doesn't use them - he just takes the low E off one of his old Teles and leaves it like that. He tends to use heavier strings and higher action on his 5 string guitars too.

When I was learning to play in this tuning (as well as other alternate tunings) I was young and broke and I only had one guitar. So I had to learn to retune quickly onstage and I couldn't take the bottom E off. I just learned to mute it. So to this day I don't have any of my guitars permanently set up for Keef tuning, though I've threatened to do it with my Tele a few times.

Keith does not use distortion pedals, just appropriately sized amps cranked enough to where they break up a little, but not too much. He does like the MXR Dyna Comp and analog delay, but not on everything. It works for the "Start Me Up" sound which is more clean, but stuff like "Brown Sugar" and "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" and "Honky Tonk Women" are pretty much all guitar->amp.

Have fun! And let me know if I can help any further of course.

[TenaciousJ]

If it's purely a Stones thing you can take the low E (errr... low D) string off, sure. Things do sound a bit different when you don't have to skip / mute it.

But my old band had a couple of open G songs and some of my favorite riffs involved the low E (D). It's great to be able to go down below the root note for songs in G. In relation to the A (low G) string it's just like playing in standard so it's easy to get your head around it.

You can also get pretty heavy in open G; those low 2 strings are just like a full step down tuned guitar, and the barred power chords with a 5th string root are a nice change from the typical 6th string root power chords in down-D tuning.

Anyway, that's a bit far off from setting up a Stones guitar, but I like to encourage people to explore open G. I'm always surprised that more guitar players don't use it outside of the blues. If you do set the guitar up for 5 string, I'd leave the option open to put the 6th string back on without changing the nut or the bridge.

[Jules]

All great stuff thanks v much (and great to hear from you Lee!)

[kafka]

I know someone who plays exclusively in open G with the highest string removed. He did it for the same reasons as Keef (as I've read), which is, basically, he doesn't have time to spend continually re-memorizing all those weird fingerings that are required in standard tuning, and wanted a more direct way of relating to the guitar.

I've been skeptical of his use of the open G for a couple of years, but I have to concede that he is one of those uncannily musical and creative musicians to whom you have to defer. We played together recently, and his voicings were all close, but lacked denseness because his voice leading was so much more natural than you get when playing close-voiced progressions in open tuning.

I loved his playing, but I can't say I want to invest the two years it would take to rework my own playing to fit with another tuning. I don't know, maybe that's a mistake.

[mikeyman]

i just found out about keiths setup.I have 2 five string guitars now .What fun.
i found a set of strings with keiths setup.
it calls for
11,15,18p,30 and 42

[mikeyman]

Originally Posted by NoPro

I'd keep the guitar's integrity by just tuning it open g and leaving the e string on... Just avoid playing the e string..... Lose your own itegrity though and it will sound just like keef ... Hah! Kidding.

get rid of the low E string thats the whole fun of it.

[Bluescraft]

Has anyone ever removed the low E and added a second A string (tuned down to G as well)?

I thought I would ask before cutting a new nut to fit 2 A strings..

[AndyFromDenver]

Originally Posted by Bluescraft

Has anyone ever removed the low E and added a second A string (tuned down to G as well)?

I thought I would ask before cutting a new nut to fit 2 A strings..

Bluescraft, that's some creative thinkin'!! I like it

I'm revisiting this thread to ask Jules if you've retuned your guitars up yet

[bdenton]

Originally Posted by Jules

If you are removing strings.... Do you simply have an empty area where the low E was? or do you shift em along one so the A string sits in the Low E string guides?

Thanks.

I read somewhere that his Tele has a custom nut and bridge that evenly distribute the strings across the neck...

[The Real MC]

Always loved this quote from Keef with the sly reference to Jagger "all you need to play rock-n-roll is five strings, three chords, and one a$$hole".

[HeimBrent]

Originally Posted by Bluescraft

Has anyone ever removed the low E and added a second A string (tuned down to G as well)?

I thought I would ask before cutting a new nut to fit 2 A strings..

Eagles Of Death Metal tunes that way.