Toaster Style Pickups in a Fender Jazz?

contramark · 27th November 2011

I had the chance to borrow a Rickenbacker 4003 off my friend for over a year and absolutely loved the sound of the bass.

Is there any way I can get my Fender Jazz to sound like this if i install the toaster style rickenbacker pickups? Anyone have experience doing this?

ivansc · 27th November 2011

As someone who has owned a 4001 stereo, a P bass a J Bass and just about every OTHER damned bass, I have to say you have no chance of swapping pickups and expecting a jazz to sound like a Ricky.

My old gigging bass was (still is, but we are both retired) a Gibson proto of an explorer shaped body with a bolt on Jazz-style neck. Pickup as it was when I got given it was a P bass passive pickup and the bass sorta sounded like a P but not really.

I added one of the earliest sets of EMG active PJ pickups and the thin gtook on a life of its own.

Huge tonal palette, but I have to be honest and say it never did sound like a p or a J,despite having all but the body shape and material being pure Fender-alike.

Also I found the 4001 to be a bit of a one trick pony.
Nice trick, but just the one....

Bookerv12 · 27th November 2011

Well,
I have played with a lot of Ric pickups in other instruments.
I had a Jazz bass that was just not all that great and threw in a toaster pickup, of course, butchering up the Jazz bass pretty badly.
After a lot of hard work and wood chips, the bass sounded about the same.
And now, it is worthless.
I wouldn't do it.

If you want to change the Jazz bass, throw in some EMG active pickups.

contramark · 29th November 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookerv12

Well,
I have played with a lot of Ric pickups in other instruments.

What other instruments with ric pickups have you tried? Is there a better option than a fender jazz to install these pickups?

GordZilla · 29th November 2011

A Rickie's sound is not just from its pickups... a lot has to do with its neck-through design, body and neck material, laquered fingerboard, and massive bridge design. Merely putting a Ric pickup in a Jazz bass is not gonna make it sound like a Rickenbacker.

Bookerv12 · 29th November 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by GordZilla

A Rickie's sound is not just from its pickups... a lot has to do with its neck-through design, body and neck material, laquered fingerboard, and massive bridge design. Merely putting a Ric pickup in a Jazz bass is not gonna make it sound like a Rickenbacker.

This is true.

I am a big fan of Ric bass pickups in guitars that use P90's.
They give an interesting bright sound to an SG special for instance.

Ric also makes some interesting humbuckers that they use in their guitars and new basses.
They are the same size as the toasters.

Unfortunately, the Ric sound is dependent on a lot of other things than the pickups.

Bookerv12 · 29th November 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by contramark

What other instruments with ric pickups have you tried? Is there a better option than a fender jazz to install these pickups?

I ended up inheriting a lot of Rickenbacker parts some years back and began throwing toasters in a lot of guitars and basses.
You are starting out with a few problems, like the pickups won't give good string coverage on certain guitars.
I don't have the numbers written down, but I remember the windings on Ric pickups were less, and they were brighter at the expense of output.
That is not a good trade-off in a Fender bass.

If you have a good sounding Ric, sometimes it's fun to experiment with other pickups as long as you don't wreck it.

In a nutshell....
Ric pickups will make your Jazz bass sound worse.
Different animal.

famousbass · 29th November 2011

Wanna experiment?
Get a copy Ric and put in good Ric pickups. Maybe Bartolini or someone has the spec you want.

The Jazz Bass is cut to attack, decay and resonate a certain way. And it's a bolt-on neck.
Rics are neck thru body. Big, big difference right there.
It will never work to force a Jazz elsewhere electronically.

Aa63 · 29th November 2011

Here is the simple answer...

No, not even close.

Famousbass has the right approach, find a neckthrough with a maple body clone.
There were some decent Univox or Mansifield or other Japanese clones in the 70's and 80's that came close - much closer than you would get by mangling a J.

Now an alternative - if you want a real tractor sounding J that has more of that harmonic pickup sound, and you know how to route, you could install a DarkStar pickup in the neck position of a J. Leave the back pickup alone and blend the two to taste.

Jim Williams · 29th November 2011

Get a maple Jazz bass body and you might get closer. It will weigh in at 15 lbs.

Better yet, skip the Jazz Bass. Get a P bass and stick the jazz pickup in the rear, best of both worlds.

famousbass · 7th December 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Get a maple Jazz bass body and you might get closer. It will weigh in at 15 lbs.

Better yet, skip the Jazz Bass. Get a P bass and stick the jazz pickup in the rear, best of both worlds.

Jim,
Have you never played a Ric?
It sounds like a Fender like a Suzuki sounds like a Harley.
Know what I mean?
I think you're on a good track for the allround Fender workhorse sound but it'll never go where the Ric goes.
Cheers

Jeff Scott · 10th December 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivansc

As someone who has owned a 4001 stereo, a P bass a J Bass and just about every OTHER damned bass, I have to say you have no chance of swapping pickups and expecting a jazz to sound like a Ricky.

I beg to differ

, and I have owned many different Rick basses over the decades. A friend of mine owns it now, but I had a '72 Jazz Bass that I put a hi-gain pickup in the neck position, and it is an amazing sounding bass.

wwittman · 10th December 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivansc

Also I found the 4001 to be a bit of a one trick pony.
Nice trick, but just the one....

really?
Mine mostly is set up to do the thumpy, dark McCartney Abbey Road sound.
is that what yours' "one trick" was?

I suspect Chris Squire or Geddy Lee or John Entwistle or Brice Foxton or Lemmy Kilmeister don't all go for that McCartney sound much either.

the sound of the Rickenbacker has to do with a lot of things that are way different from a Fender; a Fender is never really going to sound like a Rickenbacker.

ivansc · 11th December 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Scott

I beg to differ

, and I have owned many different Rick basses over the decades. A friend of mine owns it now, but I had a '72 Jazz Bass that I put a hi-gain pickup in the neck position, and it is an amazing sounding bass.

amazing sounding bass, but it didn't sound like a Ricky now, did it? Honestly???? (where the hell is the grin smiley?)

ivansc · 11th December 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwittman

really?
Mine mostly is set up to do the thumpy, dark McCartney Abbey Road sound.
is that what yours' "one trick" was?

Yep - but the other guys you mentioned all sound like frustrated lead guitarists, not bassists IMNSHO.

If I could find my soundclick page I have a very old example of me and the ricky making that big fat darkly twangy sound on it.

I hate bloody social networking - it confuses old duffers like me.

O.K. Still cant find myself Song click or myspace or whatever I am on, but I found the actual mp3 on a spare hard drive - how do I get it up on here?

Jeff Scott · 13th December 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivansc

amazing sounding bass, but it didn't sound like a Ricky now, did it? Honestly???? (where the hell is the grin smiley?)

Have you heard this bass?

ivansc · 13th December 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Scott

Have you heard this bass?

Course not - I was asking the question and expecting a negative answer.

Perhaps you missed the "where is the grin smiley" part?

Now if it DID sound like a Rickenbacker 4001 stereo.... I would be interested to say the least.

I have visions of a JJ Cale style bass with precision' jazz and toaster pickups on it....
....able to be all basses to all men....

But I suspect it will in reality only be available 'R.S.N.' *sigh*

Jeff Scott · 15th December 2011

The hi-gain PU in the "neck" position of that Jazz Bass sounds like a 4002's "neck" PU, which is one of my favorite Rickenbacker basses; of course with the JB's bridge PU it does get a bit of the JB tone going, but the combination is far more Rick-like than not. Best of both worlds, really.

ivansc · 17th December 2011

Interesting... Never tried a 4002 or a 4003 but I presume the sounds are pretty much like the 4001?

I only ever used my 4001 with both pickups in and varied the volume controls slightly for more or less bottom end, so I don't even remember what the neck pickup on its own sounded like!!

Always loved that bass, very easy to play, but the sharp edges of the body literally sliced the skin off my right forearm after a while of playing it. Combine that with sweat from playing under lights and OUCH!

Traded it for a Travis Bean bass. Which had so much sustain I wound up putting foam under the strings at the bridge to damp it down a bit.

And now I am back full circle to a P bass....

Jeff Scott · 18th December 2011

A 4003 will be fairly similar to a 4001 as the pickups are in the same location, but there is something about a nice old 4001 (the one I have now is from March '73) that can't be beat, especially, one with vintage toaster and hi-gain pickups. The .0047 µF cap is bypassed in it, but I plan to unbypass it and put TI Jazz Flats on it; it has TI Jazz Rounds on it at the moment.

A 4002 has pickups in basically the same locations relative to it's scale length as a Jazz Bass, both pickups being much closer to the bridge, so it sounds different then either a 4001 or 4003 but still, it sounds like a Rickenbacker.

27th November 2011	#1
contramark Gear addict Joined: May 2005 Location: philadelphia, pa Posts: 447 Thread Starter	Toaster Style Pickups in a Fender Jazz? I had the chance to borrow a Rickenbacker 4003 off my friend for over a year and absolutely loved the sound of the bass. Is there any way I can get my Fender Jazz to sound like this if i install the toaster style rickenbacker pickups? Anyone have experience doing this?

29th November 2011	#5
GordZilla Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2007 Location: Northwest Territories, Canada Posts: 1,033	A Rickie's sound is not just from its pickups... a lot has to do with its neck-through design, body and neck material, laquered fingerboard, and massive bridge design. Merely putting a Ric pickup in a Jazz bass is not gonna make it sound like a Rickenbacker. __________________ "From the forest itself... comes the handle for the axe" - Matisyahu

29th November 2011	#9
Aa63 Gear nut Joined: May 2010 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 135	Here is the simple answer... No, not even close. Famousbass has the right approach, find a neckthrough with a maple body clone. There were some decent Univox or Mansifield or other Japanese clones in the 70's and 80's that came close - much closer than you would get by mangling a J. Now an alternative - if you want a real tractor sounding J that has more of that harmonic pickup sound, and you know how to route, you could install a DarkStar pickup in the neck position of a J. Leave the back pickup alone and blend the two to taste. __________________ Smokin' cigarettes, writing something nasty on the wall.

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27th November 2011	#2
ivansc Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2008 Location: UK & France Posts: 852	As someone who has owned a 4001 stereo, a P bass a J Bass and just about every OTHER damned bass, I have to say you have no chance of swapping pickups and expecting a jazz to sound like a Ricky. My old gigging bass was (still is, but we are both retired) a Gibson proto of an explorer shaped body with a bolt on Jazz-style neck. Pickup as it was when I got given it was a P bass passive pickup and the bass sorta sounded like a P but not really. I added one of the earliest sets of EMG active PJ pickups and the thin gtook on a life of its own. Huge tonal palette, but I have to be honest and say it never did sound like a p or a J,despite having all but the body shape and material being pure Fender-alike. Also I found the 4001 to be a bit of a one trick pony. Nice trick, but just the one....

27th November 2011	#3
Bookerv12 Gear maniac Joined: Dec 2002 Location: The "other place" Posts: 237	Well, I have played with a lot of Ric pickups in other instruments. I had a Jazz bass that was just not all that great and threw in a toaster pickup, of course, butchering up the Jazz bass pretty badly. After a lot of hard work and wood chips, the bass sounded about the same. And now, it is worthless. I wouldn't do it. If you want to change the Jazz bass, throw in some EMG active pickups.

29th November 2011	#8
famousbass Lives for gear Joined: May 2011 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,131	Wanna experiment? Get a copy Ric and put in good Ric pickups. Maybe Bartolini or someone has the spec you want. The Jazz Bass is cut to attack, decay and resonate a certain way. And it's a bolt-on neck. Rics are neck thru body. Big, big difference right there. It will never work to force a Jazz elsewhere electronically.

29th November 2011	#10
Jim Williams Voiding warranties Joined: Feb 2004 Location: beautiful Carlsbad, CA Posts: 10,070	Get a maple Jazz bass body and you might get closer. It will weigh in at 15 lbs. Better yet, skip the Jazz Bass. Get a P bass and stick the jazz pickup in the rear, best of both worlds.

15th December 2011	#18
Jeff Scott Gear nut Joined: Mar 2010 Location: Cleveland Ohio Posts: 100	The hi-gain PU in the "neck" position of that Jazz Bass sounds like a 4002's "neck" PU, which is one of my favorite Rickenbacker basses; of course with the JB's bridge PU it does get a bit of the JB tone going, but the combination is far more Rick-like than not. Best of both worlds, really.

17th December 2011	#19
ivansc Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2008 Location: UK & France Posts: 852	Interesting... Never tried a 4002 or a 4003 but I presume the sounds are pretty much like the 4001? I only ever used my 4001 with both pickups in and varied the volume controls slightly for more or less bottom end, so I don't even remember what the neck pickup on its own sounded like!! Always loved that bass, very easy to play, but the sharp edges of the body literally sliced the skin off my right forearm after a while of playing it. Combine that with sweat from playing under lights and OUCH! Traded it for a Travis Bean bass. Which had so much sustain I wound up putting foam under the strings at the bridge to damp it down a bit. And now I am back full circle to a P bass....

18th December 2011	#20
Jeff Scott Gear nut Joined: Mar 2010 Location: Cleveland Ohio Posts: 100	A 4003 will be fairly similar to a 4001 as the pickups are in the same location, but there is something about a nice old 4001 (the one I have now is from March '73) that can't be beat, especially, one with vintage toaster and hi-gain pickups. The .0047 µF cap is bypassed in it, but I plan to unbypass it and put TI Jazz Flats on it; it has TI Jazz Rounds on it at the moment. A 4002 has pickups in basically the same locations relative to it's scale length as a Jazz Bass, both pickups being much closer to the bridge, so it sounds different then either a 4001 or 4003 but still, it sounds like a Rickenbacker.