Compact PA Systems - What's out there?

jimcroisdale · 10th October 2011

Hi all,

Thought this might be the best place to ask this!

Just starting a new covers band after a couple of years out. In the past I have been in many bands, with big PA's (and the van required to carry it all!) so I know a little about them and how it all works.

The problem we have at the moment is that we do not have a van and thus whatever system we use needs to fit into a hatchback car. In the past I've used 15" tops, 18" bins, massive amp racks and 3 monitor etc etc, but in this case i know that's simply not an option.

Does anyone have any experience of the modern, all active systems from the likes of HK Audio? I would like something with a sub - I don't think a pair of 15s alone are going to cut it.

It's a bit of a catch 22 here - if you don't have a 'loud' pa, with drums going through, it's hard to get taken seriously as a rock band and thus command the better money gigs. And until you do, it's hard to afford the PA in the first place....

Any ideas folks? We are a 4 piece - drums, bass, guitar and vox, with one or possibly 2 backing vocals.

Cheers,

Jim

Fisticuffs · 10th October 2011

I used our demo HK elements system this weekend for a wedding gig. 2 tops units and 1 sub on each side. Everything snaps together like legos. one power cable and one XLR per side. The whole thing fits in the passenger seat of my car. at $4000 MAP that system isn't cheap but compared to something like K-Array.... I'm sold. I;d totally buy one.

nedorama · 10th October 2011

How many people are you going to be playing to with this setup? 50? 100? 200? 3000?

Indoors or outdoors?

Budget?

drbob1 · 10th October 2011

The hard thing is that few manufacturers reveal SPLs, and those that do, it's uncertain if you can believe them. There are a couple of philosophies out there:

Line arrays: the small, portable ones like the Fishman and the Bose are very expensive for the SPLs you get, definitely not going to cut it for a rock band.

All-in-one PAs: the Passports, Yamaha Stagepass and so on, nice packaging decent sound, cabs just aren't big enough for drums and bass IMHO.

Powered Speakers: the advantage that with class D and biamping you can get a lot of power without a lot of weight or size. SPLs start to get up to where they'd be useful for what you want and there are a whole range of prices and qualities available. While cost per dB is good, you do have to add the cost for a mixer.

Traditional PAs: the advantage here is that class D and smaller drivers have had an impact, so you can get a lot more dBs into the back of a car than you used to. This is the direction I've chosen to go (4 EV Sx200s, 2 EV Sx subs, two Peavey IPR amps) and the trapezoidal cabs mean that you can repurpose the 12" mains as monitors as your money and needs go up. I bought used, found the speakers for around $120 each (killer deal), IPR1600 for $240, A&H mixer for $300-so $1160 for the main PA plus another $300 hundred for a monitor amp when the time comes and I had stands and wires and mics from before. To me, portability and flexibility and cost considerations are more important than a sleek form factor or an all in one solution.

Niallerrity · 18th December 2011

Was actually using a K-array set up in work today for a band, they sound unbelievable, even compared to stacked systems.

The tuning was minimal so they sound good even if you don't know what you're doing tuning wise and they're seriously portable. That system I was using was 10,000 euros worth but there's a slightly smaller 2K Watt system for 6,000 euro which is also amazing.

I know these are expensive enough but you get what you pay for!

The Yamaha stage pass are ok, have problems with the low end. but I think you can get better systems for your money!

nedorama · 19th December 2011

Again, size of average audience and budget will get you better answers - right now people are spec'ing everything from a cheap Fender Passport to a $4000 HK system and potentially neither are right.

There's plenty of powered speakers and subs in multiple price ranges. If you're going to use subs avoid 15's for tops - you want a speaker that can do midrange.

10th October 2011	#1
jimcroisdale Lives for gear Joined: Nov 2008 Location: Mirfield, U.K. Posts: 978 Thread Starter	Compact PA Systems - What's out there? Hi all, Thought this might be the best place to ask this! Just starting a new covers band after a couple of years out. In the past I have been in many bands, with big PA's (and the van required to carry it all!) so I know a little about them and how it all works. The problem we have at the moment is that we do not have a van and thus whatever system we use needs to fit into a hatchback car. In the past I've used 15" tops, 18" bins, massive amp racks and 3 monitor etc etc, but in this case i know that's simply not an option. Does anyone have any experience of the modern, all active systems from the likes of HK Audio? I would like something with a sub - I don't think a pair of 15s alone are going to cut it. It's a bit of a catch 22 here - if you don't have a 'loud' pa, with drums going through, it's hard to get taken seriously as a rock band and thus command the better money gigs. And until you do, it's hard to afford the PA in the first place.... Any ideas folks? We are a 4 piece - drums, bass, guitar and vox, with one or possibly 2 backing vocals. Cheers, Jim __________________ http://soundcloud.com/see-my-silhouette/chances-are-by-see-my

10th October 2011	#3
nedorama Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,242	How many people are you going to be playing to with this setup? 50? 100? 200? 3000? Indoors or outdoors? Budget? __________________ nedorama Monkey Boy Studios Summit 2BA-221, TLA-50 mBox Pro 3, Pro Tools 10.1.3 Radial JDI x 2, ProD2, ProRMP '65 Bandmaster 2x12 combo with Dr. Z Brake Lite, '65 Showman, '74 Princeton, '77 Princeton Reverb, Dr. Z. Mini Z Head, Dr. Z 1x12 Cab, pedals, George L's cabling

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10th October 2011	#2
Fisticuffs Gear Head Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 43	I used our demo HK elements system this weekend for a wedding gig. 2 tops units and 1 sub on each side. Everything snaps together like legos. one power cable and one XLR per side. The whole thing fits in the passenger seat of my car. at $4000 MAP that system isn't cheap but compared to something like K-Array.... I'm sold. I;d totally buy one.

10th October 2011	#4
drbob1 Lives for gear Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,420 3 Reviews written	The hard thing is that few manufacturers reveal SPLs, and those that do, it's uncertain if you can believe them. There are a couple of philosophies out there: Line arrays: the small, portable ones like the Fishman and the Bose are very expensive for the SPLs you get, definitely not going to cut it for a rock band. All-in-one PAs: the Passports, Yamaha Stagepass and so on, nice packaging decent sound, cabs just aren't big enough for drums and bass IMHO. Powered Speakers: the advantage that with class D and biamping you can get a lot of power without a lot of weight or size. SPLs start to get up to where they'd be useful for what you want and there are a whole range of prices and qualities available. While cost per dB is good, you do have to add the cost for a mixer. Traditional PAs: the advantage here is that class D and smaller drivers have had an impact, so you can get a lot more dBs into the back of a car than you used to. This is the direction I've chosen to go (4 EV Sx200s, 2 EV Sx subs, two Peavey IPR amps) and the trapezoidal cabs mean that you can repurpose the 12" mains as monitors as your money and needs go up. I bought used, found the speakers for around $120 each (killer deal), IPR1600 for $240, A&H mixer for $300-so $1160 for the main PA plus another $300 hundred for a monitor amp when the time comes and I had stands and wires and mics from before. To me, portability and flexibility and cost considerations are more important than a sleek form factor or an all in one solution.

18th December 2011	#5
Niallerrity Gear nut Joined: Feb 2010 Location: Dublin Posts: 122 1 Review written	Was actually using a K-array set up in work today for a band, they sound unbelievable, even compared to stacked systems. The tuning was minimal so they sound good even if you don't know what you're doing tuning wise and they're seriously portable. That system I was using was 10,000 euros worth but there's a slightly smaller 2K Watt system for 6,000 euro which is also amazing. I know these are expensive enough but you get what you pay for! The Yamaha stage pass are ok, have problems with the low end. but I think you can get better systems for your money!

19th December 2011	#6
nedorama Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,242	Again, size of average audience and budget will get you better answers - right now people are spec'ing everything from a cheap Fender Passport to a $4000 HK system and potentially neither are right. There's plenty of powered speakers and subs in multiple price ranges. If you're going to use subs avoid 15's for tops - you want a speaker that can do midrange.