best vintage sounding guitar combo for recording purposes?

[gubbtjyv]

Hi,

I'm looking at buying a guitar amp combo for recording and would gladly recieve some help in choosing the one that suits me best. Problem is, I don't live anywhere near a guitar center or similar that would keep a wide range of amps in stock, so I'm doomed to make a choice based on youtube demos and your trusted opinion

I produce a lot different types of music in my work so would need a good allround amp, but preferably something in the vintage sounding class.
I have an 80's Marshall JCM800 with a 412 cabinet, and I absolutely love the sound coming out of it, but it's humming like shit and now I've come to a point where it just isn't good enough for my purposes. I play an 80's Fender tele with Lundgren's P-90 pickups both neck and bridge, and usually record with a bluesy low/mid-gain sound, with the spring reverb fully cranked.

I need a tube combo that:

• isn't too big, preferably 1x12" or 2x12" tops
• doesn't need to be played on high volumes to get that nice warm tube sound (I have neighbours...)
• has a spring reverb
• has both volume/gain and a master knob
• doesn't need any stomps or pedals as a complement in getting a nice crunchy/warm sound
• doesn't cost more than $1200
• can measure itself in terms of warmth and tone with the JCM800

I've kind of fallen in love with the Orange Tiny Terror combo, but come to the conclusion that the sound is too colored and not all round enough. Also, it doesn't have a reverb..

So now I'm looking at some Fender amps, mainly the Hot Rod Deluxe III, the Blues Deluxe Reissue, and maybe the Blues Junior III. But I've read some different opinions regarding the difference between the hot rod and the blues reissue that I hope that you guys can shed some light on.

So, any suggestions? I'm open to anything even if it doesn't make my checklist.

I'd be really grateful if you could help me out on this one!

Thanks

[rogerbrain]

love that you said vintage 'sounding' I think most of the small 2XEL84 amps (of good quality) like the Orange or Trace Velocette thru a 1X12 open back using a green back or the G12H celestion goes there in a good way.. I use a Tele and a les Paul with P0-90's and the get that 'dry woody' .. the Jensen Alnico 50oz 12 will put you in the tweed zone if that is the vibe you are after.. I think the speaker is really key to vintage vibe ..and it HAS to be broken in ..I run a 40hz tone at very low volume thru them for a couple days ..then play some bass (again at lowish level) thru them.. it works for me..

[gubbtjyv]

Originally Posted by rogerbrain

love that you said vintage 'sounding' I think most of the small 2XEL84 amps (of good quality) like the Orange or Trace Velocette thru a 1X12 open back using a green back or the G12H celestion goes there in a good way.. I use a Tele and a les Paul with P0-90's and the get that 'dry woody' .. the Jensen Alnico 50oz 12 will put you in the tweed zone if that is the vibe you are after.. I think the speaker is really key to vintage vibe ..and it HAS to be broken in ..I run a 40hz tone at very low volume thru them for a couple days ..then play some bass (again at lowish level) thru them.. it works for me..

Thanks!

So would you say I'm on the right track with a Hot Rod III, Blues Deluxe Reissue, or even a Blues Junior III? Would love some opinions on those..

The Trace Elliot Velocette seems nice but I think I want to go with something newly made (thus vintage 'sounding'), just for the sake of getting as less humming and noise as possible. I might be way wrong here, but my impression is that modern amps hass less humming. If I needed something for practice or gigs the Velocette would very well be an option, but in this case I need to be able to make really clean (clean as in no humming, not clean as in not driven) recordings.

As said, I like what Orange is up to but I really need a spring reverb, and the only Orange combos out there with one are a bit over the top when it comes to the price..

Do you think the above mentioned Fender amps with a Jensen Alnico speaker would be nice? Anyone have any experience with that?

I admit, I'm a total noob when it comes to the specs and technical stuff.. I'm more into using the things than understanding what's inside
And that's why I need your help.

I just recorded a quick sample to give you an idea of the sound I'm after.. maybe not the best track to explain but it might give you a hunch:
http://www.kungenochhertigen.se/dump...ple_110807.mp3

It's recorded with a tele on a Marshall JCM800. is this sound achievable with any obvious 1x12" combo?

[rogerbrain]

Originally Posted by gubbtjyv

Thanks!

So would you say I'm on the right track with a Hot Rod III, Blues Deluxe Reissue, or even a Blues Junior III? Would love some opinions on those..

The Trace Elliot Velocette seems nice but I think I want to go with something newly made (thus vintage 'sounding'), just for the sake of getting as less humming and noise as possible. I might be way wrong here, but my impression is that modern amps hass less humming. If I needed something for practice or gigs the Velocette would very well be an option, but in this case I need to be able to make really clean (clean as in no humming, not clean as in not driven) recordings.

As said, I like what Orange is up to but I really need a spring reverb, and the only Orange combos out there with one are a bit over the top when it comes to the price..

Do you think the above mentioned Fender amps with a Jensen Alnico speaker would be nice? Anyone have any experience with that?

I admit, I'm a total noob when it comes to the specs and technical stuff.. I'm more into using the things than understanding what's inside
And that's why I need your help.

I just recorded a quick sample to give you an idea of the sound I'm after.. maybe not the best track to explain but it might give you a hunch:
http://www.kungenochhertigen.se/dump...ple_110807.mp3

It's recorded with a tele on a Marshall JCM800. is this sound achievable with any obvious 1x12" combo?

well I think so.. others may not.. I think a Blues deluxe (the one in the black tolex with 15 watts) and the P12N Jensen alnico 12" (rather costy but GREAT) would be great head you kinda toward the Neil Young sound .. your track is more the sound of a Greenback to me.. i often see the blues deluxes with greenback on ebay.. seems like the amp folks want to mod then sell.. I think they sound very good for the bucks stock.. and a greenback is not that expensive and would head for a more brit sound..

if you are recording why not just add the verb in the mix ...small rooms in do the job pretty well ??...nice sounding track BTW

[Eutoxita]

I'd go for the Deluxe with a Jensen. I have access to both - mine has a Jensen, my singer's doesn't - and they're both great amps. Imagine the clean tone of a Fender twin in a smaller bundle. You'll find as many opinions about preamp distortion as you will any other subjective sound-related topic. Personally, I like the distortion channel of the Deluxe. If not, throw a stomp-box in front of the clean channel - tone for days.

[eyeball_kid]

Well there were a lot of 'vintage' guitars and amps, sounding quite different from each other!

But for those criteria I'd suggest the Vox AC-15. The new hand-wired reissues run about $1100. I haven't played the new ones, I have one of the first reissue 15s with the single blue Alnico 12" speaker... but if they're anywhere near as good as mine, I have no reservations in recommending to you. Definitely a British vintage sound, and with the single 12" you can really get a tasty distortion from the separate gain control without having to crank it. It has a pleasing, clean round tone when not driven. Has good tremolo and reverb sound...great, really. And they just look class.

[gubbtjyv]

I've had the Vox AC-15 in mind, but to be honest I'm a bit worried about it being so cheap (why the hell that now would scare me off...). And the handwired is on the other hand a bit expensive. Noob question again, what's the big difference between the AC15c1 and the AC15 handwired?

Eutoxica: when you say deluxe, I assume you are referring to the blues deluxe and not the hot rod deluxe?

I'm really having a hard time to make a decision..

rogerbrain: thanks!

[eyeball_kid]

Originally Posted by gubbtjyv

I've had the Vox AC-15 in mind, but to be honest I'm a bit worried about it being so cheap (why the hell that now would scare me off...). And the handwired is on the other hand a bit expensive. Noob question again, what's the big difference between the AC15c1 and the AC15 handwired?

Well, the big difference is being hand-wired instead of PCB, although I've heard even the "hand-wired" model has some PCB circuitry in there...bit of false advertising. The handwired model also has an additional tone boost switch to get more of the bright AC-30 sound. I have no experience to say how the tone compares between the two models, but the PCBs do sound good.

As for cheap, well Korg (who owns Vox) has moved production to China. Probably even for the hand-wired units, but not positive. So cheap exploitation labor is how they can hit that price point. I believe the 90s reissues that I have one of were still being built in the UK. [edit: in fact yes, mine says "Manufactured in England" on the back. note that mine cost about the same as the new hand-wireds when I got it in 2000]

[gubbtjyv]

The AC15, handwired or not, should really be what I'm looking for, speaking from what my checklist is telling me, but I can't really seem to fall in love with the tone. I think the driven sounds are a bit too crunchy/fuzzy, sounds a bit low resoluted and grainy, if you get me. So I'm afraid that one is not an option. I'm starting to think it's about british vs american sound..? judging from the recording i posted, would you guys call that a more british or american style of tone? I just got my eyes on a Peavey Delta Blues and I really like the tone of it. Any opinions on that one? I've only heard bluesy stuff played on it, but how is it when it comes to producing a rocking driven sound like in the track I posted? Can it do that? Again, I don't want to use any stomps, I want a nice sound right out the amp. Oh, and I love the delta reverb..

[Yeah, right...]

I recommend you check out the Fender Deluxe Reverb 65 reissue. Very versatile & great sounding little amp, and within your price range...

Good luck, Mike

[gubbtjyv]

will do! what would you say are the main differences between the deluxe reverb and the blues deluxe? I noticed there is also an amp called only fender deluxe, looks about the same as the deluxe reverb. what kind of an amp is that?

[eyeball_kid]

Originally Posted by gubbtjyv

The AC15, handwired or not, should really be what I'm looking for, speaking from what my checklist is telling me, but I can't really seem to fall in love with the tone. I think the driven sounds are a bit too crunchy/fuzzy, sounds a bit low resoluted and grainy, if you get me. So I'm afraid that one is not an option. I'm starting to think it's about british vs american sound..? judging from the recording i posted, would you guys call that a more british or american style of tone? I just got my eyes on a Peavey Delta Blues and I really like the tone of it. Any opinions on that one? I've only heard bluesy stuff played on it, but how is it when it comes to producing a rocking driven sound like in the track I posted? Can it do that? Again, I don't want to use any stomps, I want a nice sound right out the amp. Oh, and I love the delta reverb..

Listening to the track you posted, I wouldn't recommend the Vox. You can get somewhat close to it with pedals, but the Vox has a rounder clean tone than the guitar in that song. Yes, Vox is definitely the British vintage sound... Beatles, Stones, Kinks, etc. Though other big artists have used them...Queen and U2, notably, who don't necessarily sound "vintage". I wouldn't even call what you posted a "vintage" sound, it just sounds like a tele through a fender. If I were you I'd pick up a nice Twin Reverb instead of the Peavey due to resale value, but hey, whatever tone you like is the tone that is best. But if you want "vintage", make sure it's tube-based and not solid-state.

[gubbtjyv]

Originally Posted by eyeball_kid

Listening to the track you posted, I wouldn't recommend the Vox. You can get somewhat close to it with pedals, but the Vox has a rounder clean tone than the guitar in that song. Yes, Vox is definitely the British vintage sound... Beatles, Stones, Kinks, etc. Though other big artists have used them...Queen and U2, notably, who don't necessarily sound "vintage". I wouldn't even call what you posted a "vintage" sound, it just sounds like a tele through a fender. If I were you I'd pick up a nice Twin Reverb instead of the Peavey due to resale value, but hey, whatever tone you like is the tone that is best. But if you want "vintage", make sure it's tube-based and not solid-state.

I've been looking at the Twin Reverb 65 Reissue, and I absolutely love the tone, and it's within my price range (sort of). From what I've seen on demo videos though, it doesn't seem to have a master knob, so I guess you need to crank it beyond bedroom volume to get the drive? And that is crucial to me... :(

[SweMe]

I guess you live in Sweden?

I know a guy here in Gothenburg that have helped me a lot when it comes to get the right guitar or amp, he always got some of the best amps and guitars at home.

Send me a PM if it sounds intresting and I will give you his number so you can give him a call. He also have some really geat prices to!

Testa även att kolla på ljudbojen.com, där finns mkt expertråd att hämta från

[kafka]

Originally Posted by gubbtjyv

I play an 80's Fender tele with Lundgren's P-90 pickups both neck and bridge, and usually record with a bluesy low/mid-gain sound, with the spring reverb fully cranked.
...
So, any suggestions? I'm open to anything even if it doesn't make my checklist.

Used Dr. Z Maz 38 Reverb. I think I got mine for less than $1200. Extremely versatile amp. Definitely not a jack-of-all-trade, master of none. Not only does it have a very wide tonal range, but it's authoritative no matter what sound you're getting out of it. I have a PRS Mira with P-90's that sounds fantastic through the Maz.

[guitarwolle]

If you love the JCM800-sound, use it. Get it properly set up and/or repaired to get rid of the hum. Install 2 tone bones and you end up wit 16 watt power - more than enough.

I've spent a lot of time during the past 5 or so years to get my JCM800 in that configuration to sound perfect at low volume levels and finally got there - very good Marshall tone at surptisingly low volume levels.

Even with 16 Watts I dont have to crank up more the master over 2-3.

Look for a good map technician who can modify you JCM800 to sound exactely the way you want with the tone bones, try the penthode and triode types, try different grades of tubes - vast difference in tone - and be happy with what you got.

[gubbtjyv]

Originally Posted by guitarwolle

If you love the JCM800-sound, use it. Get it properly set up and/or repaired to get rid of the hum. Install 2 tone bones and you end up wit 16 watt power - more than enough.

I've spent a lot of time during the past 5 or so years to get my JCM800 in that configuration to sound perfect at low volume levels and finally got there - very good Marshall tone at surptisingly low volume levels.

Even with 16 Watts I dont have to crank up more the master over 2-3.

Look for a good map technician who can modify you JCM800 to sound exactely the way you want with the tone bones, try the penthode and triode types, try different grades of tubes - vast difference in tone - and be happy with what you got.

You got a really good point there. Problem is, I use the JCM800 for gigs and as I'm happy with it I don't really want to make any modifications. Of course, a repair to get rid of humming wouldn't hurt.

Anyway, I went to a dealer in a city nearby and got to try a variety of amps. Started out with the Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III, and I didn't like it at all. It felt like playing through some digitally simulated tube amp. So, I proceeded with the Fender Twin Reverb Reissue, and that was a bit closer to what I was after, but unfortunately no master knob.. Tried a Mesa Boogie Lonestar, and man I loved that amp. It had everything I was looking for, but with a pricetag close to $3000 it was not an option.

Then I tried a used Peavey Delta Blues 115 (newly served by the famous Tommy Folkesson), and fell in love instantly. I immediately recognized the tone and feel from my JCM800, it felt familiar. Of course it wasn't really the same thing, but close enough. So I bought it for $690, a real bargain!

I take back what I previously said about the delta reverb though, it sort of sucked. Didn't sound springy enough to me, but it will have to do. By the way, I have an old italian organ (napoli I think) with a spring box that sounds terrific, but the organ itself broke down beyond repair last year. Is it hard to install that spring reverb into my amp?

I'm also thinking of maybe switching the speaker to something juicier, any suggestions? It currently carries a 15" Peavey Blue Marvel 16 Ohms. I sounds OK but I imagine I could lift the amp another level with some other speaker. Especially since the amp was to cheap I don't have any problems putting some money on a nice speaker. Do you guys know if the greenbacks comes as 15"?

Sweme: Tack för tipset! Ska absolut höra av mig ifall jag skulle behöva något framöver. Jag flyttar till Borås 1 september så jag har nära till Göteborg.

Thanks all for helping me out and giving me helpful tips in the headmelting pursuit for a good amp!

[FFTT]

I would hunt down a clean Silver Face Vibrolux Reverb
or '65 Ampeg Gemini I well within your budget.

At worst refurbishing as needed may run you a few hundred more.

In a NEW or late model clean used amp.

Gries 35
Reeves Custom 30
Suhr Badger 30

For lower power.

Allen Amps Chihuahua
Allen Amps Sweet Spot


If you can live without on board reverb, the Reeves Custom 12

[spectacular g]

Fender® Products
Custom Vibrolux® Reverb


swap the stock power tubes, I ended up using these...

Sovtek 6L6WXT+

12AX7's are really a personal preference thing, tried a bunch bought 10 of these... A bit less gain, will still get crunchy, more dynamic's and great with P-90's.

JAN-Philips 5751

for bigger gig's or a different sound you can plug in an extension cab.

5 year warranty.

about $1,500.00 when done...

Sound's as good or better than a vintage one...

Or just find a nice black face Princeton Reverb

G

[drbob1]

Doesn't matter what we suggest now, you've bought the Peavey (and a fine choice it is, lot of Nashville guys play that amp). A couple of things you can do that might improve it:

1. Better tubes: I like Tung Sols for the modern 12AX7s, but a couple of Mazda, Visseaux or even Mullard preamp tubes might be interesting in that amp and findable in Europe. Power tubes, it uses EL84s, if you can find NOS (RFT aren't too expensive) they'll improve the crunch. Check what tube drives the reverb pan, that might benefit from an American NOS (GE 12AT7 for example).

2. Better speaker(s): not a big fan of the Jensen reissues, and not super excited about Peavey's speakers. I'd look for used but good Celestions or even better, Fanes.

3. You can upgrade the reverb pan. There's a number on all Hammond pans that describes the springs, the length, the required input and output impedance. You can upgrade number of springs, length of pan, length of reverb, but you have to keep the impedances the same. Google it, there's good articles out there...

[gubbtjyv]

Originally Posted by drbob1

Doesn't matter what we suggest now, you've bought the Peavey (and a fine choice it is, lot of Nashville guys play that amp). A couple of things you can do that might improve it:

1. Better tubes: I like Tung Sols for the modern 12AX7s, but a couple of Mazda, Visseaux or even Mullard preamp tubes might be interesting in that amp and findable in Europe. Power tubes, it uses EL84s, if you can find NOS (RFT aren't too expensive) they'll improve the crunch. Check what tube drives the reverb pan, that might benefit from an American NOS (GE 12AT7 for example).

2. Better speaker(s): not a big fan of the Jensen reissues, and not super excited about Peavey's speakers. I'd look for used but good Celestions or even better, Fanes.

3. You can upgrade the reverb pan. There's a number on all Hammond pans that describes the springs, the length, the required input and output impedance. You can upgrade number of springs, length of pan, length of reverb, but you have to keep the impedances the same. Google it, there's good articles out there...

thanks a lot for tip! I realized it's a bit hard finding a good 15" speaker (and they seem to be way more expensive than 12" ones). And a lot of the 15" speakers out there seem to be manufactured for bass amps and bass cabinets. Can I just put any good used Celestion or similar in there or does it need to be exclusively a guitar speaker (or something similar with a wide frequency range)?

Anyway, I placed a loooow bid on an old reverb tank with hardly any intention of winning the auction - but I did

so, the question is, will I have any use for this or have I made a mistake? And does anyone know if they sound any good?

SPRING REVERB TANK Hammond L-101 L-100 Organ DIY Guitar | eBay

Could be cool to make an external reverb out of it, either a stompbox or something to jack into the FX loop.

EDIT: So I found a broken down Peavey Bandit in the studio and pulled out the reverb tank (the delta blues is still in the shop being checked up since it's used), it was an accutronics long reverb with two springs. I think it's the same in the Delta Blues. The old hammond tank I bought looks about the same in size, and has the RCA input/outputs, so it should fit as long as it has the same impedance. What I've read though is that the characteristics of the reverb lies more in the circuits than in the tank. So the question stands, will I be better off with the old hammond tank or should I just keep the accutronics tank? The Delta Blues has been critisized for its poor reverb, but the general opinion says that the accutronics tanks are really good. So the question is, how much of a circuital thing is it, really?

[drbob1]

I'd be REALLY surprised if the tank has the same impedance. You can check with the part number on the side. If it DOES, then just sit that sucker on top of the amp, plug in the RCA cables and see how it sounds. You won't hurt anything...

For a 15" speaker the JBL sounds great, but is expensive. The Weber version (California?) is supposed to be close (lightly doped, cloth dome for guitar). Of course, old Jensen P15Ns out of organs would sound great, but get a guarantee that they'll work because it'll be $75 to recone them if they're dead...

[lollygagger8]

Fender Princeton all day every day.

I had a Hot Rod Deluxe and sold it. It really didn't do it for me. :(