Need a tube amp with a line out!!

[jimmiibass]

ok, so i play in our contemporary service at chruch, playing hard christian rock. im currently using an old vox valvetronix combo amp, using the line out to go to the FOH. mic'ing isnt convienient because we try to keep stage volume as low as possible. does anyone know of good tube amps that have recording line outs/ headphone outs? i would prefer a head, but i can live with a combo. at least 2 channels, please.
thanks guys!!!

[latestflavor]

i dont see the point. a pod would be better w/o a speaker anywhere in the chain.

a line 6 spider amp may be your friend here. had direct balanced out, pod quality (ie i think w/ speaker emulation)

[jimmiibass]

ughhh i hate line 6. everyone else uses pod pro's or vetta IIs and the tone isnt the greatest and the feel is awful. and i want an amp on stage, we use them as monitors, but not a mic'ing volume.

[Animus]

Lineouts will sound like shit unless you use some kind of cabinet modeling or convolution. You can buy boxes such as the Palmer that can do such things. I even think Behringer has a cheap solution. But with tube amps you always need to make sure you have the appropriate load.

[wesarvin]

We use a Mesa Mark IV combo. It has a "recording out" which is an emulated line out that kills the speaker. The sound of that line out is usable, but in reality is crap.

Instead, we run it in 10 watt mode (tweed power, triode, class A) with the volume on 2 and a 57 draped with a Z-bar. It is then placed off stage, facing backwards, with a plexi shield behind it and wrapped 703 panels in front and over it. It's kinda like a fort you would build as a kid. Stage volume is REALLY low, but the tone out front is still real.

[trevoire520]

I have never found a tube or solid state amp with a line out that sounded anywhere near acceptable.
If it HAS to be a line out, then you'll have to go with some kind of modelling amp. Or get the Behringer GI100 and use the speaker emulation after the line out of a amp, that still sounds pretty ropey though.

[davet]

Your best bet is something like Demeter SSC-1 speaker cabinet. I have one and it sounds OK for clean stuff. If your into heavy crunch tones it turns to mud pretty quick. I've had a couple of MESA amps with a line out. They sound real bad.

I've tried PODS and similar things. They all sound bad compared to a real guitar amp. You can always try pointing the guitar amp or speaker directly at you, like a stage monitor. Works great if you have a sound man.
DaveT

[jimmiibass]

1. im not talking about a preamp out with a speaker simulator. the only speaker simulators i have ever liked are out of my price range.
2. i have a modeling amp now, im not looking to replace it.
3. the room we play is a acoustical nightmare. mic'ing amps is very unrealistic.
4. i loath PODS and more or less anything line 6. their amps dont feel amp-like. sustain sucks unless you load on the gain.
-have any of your guys tried the blackstars? or the egnater rebel 30s? i liked those, looking for a simliar set up.

[mdme_sadie]

You could also consider using an attenuator, many offer a line out option. Then slap a speaker emulation box after that and you're set.

Marshall offer speaker emulation line out on their heads, no idea what the sound quality is like though, but I imagine pretty sucky.

I really would reconsider the whole Pod/AxeFX/Eleven Rack thing. The new Pod HD's actually have vastly improved sound quality and feel, and aren't that expensive.

Or as a final suggestion, get a low wattage amp (or any amp and an attenuator) and mic it. You don't have to be that loud on stage to mic and sound good and if you still aren't happy then you don't even have to have your amp on stage with you, get a wireless system and it can be in some other room for all it matters.

[darkhorse]

I use Carvin's, my V3 has a line out w cab voice and variable vol. Sweet amp, a million tone options w all the switches and EQ settings. The price is pretty sweet for these for what you get.

There is a simple way to get a line out on any amp, tap the speaker line w a decent direct box and pad the output down to the board, PA or recorder (a good direct box will have an attenuation switch). Works very well, I used to do a lot of recording some time back using them. I am sure the newer direct boxes are much better than what I had a few years back. Remember to just straight out the speaker line to the speaker input as you will still need the speaker load on the amp.

[wesarvin]

I second the motion of a low-wattage tube amp that is mic'ed.

You must watch out for one thing though--even though the tone is there and the volume is stupid low, sometimes the volume can be so low that bleed from other instruments is actually louder than the amp. That's why I suggest the "iso-fort" mentioned above. Plywood, 703 panels, plexi shields, even fire-resistant blankets will work.

You get the best of both worlds with this setup; real tone from a real amp and isolation.

Every emulator or line out that I've tried sounded and felt like crud. Do yourself a favor and go for the real deal.

[The Real MC]

I abhor line outs because they don't include the sound of the tube power amp which is where the TONE is.

Doesn't that Vox have a power selector on the back for 60W, 30W, 15W, 1W? You can get decent tone even at 1W.

[jimmiibass]

Originally Posted by The Real MC

I abhor line outs because they don't include the sound of the tube power amp which is where the TONE is.

Doesn't that Vox have a power selector on the back for 60W, 30W, 15W, 1W? You can get decent tone even at 1W.

that it does, and i keep it on 1 watt with the master pegged. its a solid state amp, so it doesnt do much.
i think im going to go for an iso cab, like the jet city one? any other favorites?

[Animus]

Originally Posted by The Real MC

I abhor line outs because they don't include the sound of the tube power amp which is where the TONE is.

Doesn't that Vox have a power selector on the back for 60W, 30W, 15W, 1W? You can get decent tone even at 1W.

Actually, the line out on my Road King is technically a Slave Out of the speaker output.

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by jimmiibass

ok, so i play in our contemporary service at chruch, playing hard christian rock. im currently using an old vox valvetronix combo amp, using the line out to go to the FOH. mic'ing isnt convienient because we try to keep stage volume as low as possible. does anyone know of good tube amps that have recording line outs/ headphone outs? i would prefer a head, but i can live with a combo. at least 2 channels, please.
thanks guys!!!

If it's loud enough to hear, it's loud enough to mic.

You may hate Line6, but I guarantee you that even the cheapest L6 modeling unit will sound better that running a direct line out without any kind of cabinet emulation.

If you absolutely insist on running line out, get something like a SansAmp or H&K Redbox cabinet emulator.

[js1]

The current line of Traynor amps pretty well all have a speaker compensated line out. My old guitar player used it on his amp from time to time on gigs, it was OK.

js

[johnnyc]

Originally Posted by travisbrown

If you absolutely insist on running line out, get something like a SansAmp or H&K Redbox cabinet emulator.

These work pretty good.

May I propose another solution? Get a nice overdrive/distortion pedal (I use a Radial Hot British). So Guitar=>Overdrive/Dist Pedal=>Signal Splitter, One signal goes to a HK Red Box then to the mixing board, other signal goes to clean guitar amp. You will get good dist tones at low volumes plus a very useable tone to the mixer.

[nedorama]

Couple of options:

Low watt amp - Dr. Z and others make amps that are 5 watts and can be attenuated down to 1/2 watt. you get a cranked power tube, but at levels you can talk over. Love mine for recording.

take your cabinet, put it on an amp stand to angle it back, but put it in front of you like a floor monitor - you'll hear the part, but the volume will be not going towards the crowd. Mike Campbell with Tom Petty does this with his Fender Princetons.

Attenuators - they will take down the speaker level in your cabinet while still getting the power tube distortion.

Load box - Palmer, others make a full speaker emulator that replaces your speaker cabinet. Be warned: H&K's Red Box is a speaker emulator tap - if you have a tube amp, you still need to have a speaker connected or you'll fry the amp because it won't see an output load.

Then again, if you're happy with a Vox Valvetronix solid state sound, get a floorboard - for that kind of sound you'll be able to get it, program your sounds, and then send a stereo signal to front of house. for monitoring, get a powered monitor, like the QSC KW122 or the K10/K12. You say you don't like Line 6/POD, but the DSP in Valvetronix is similar; you may want to find the discontinued Vox floorboard or try out the Boss and/or Digitech ones. A floorboard with a powered monitor will give you the best of both worlds, or if the service has monitors, FOH can give you a monitor mix of you and other players, which would be better anyway.

This is the model - I would guess it's the exact same guts as your amp. http://www.jr.com/vox/pe/VX_TONELABE...ductTabDetails


Good luck.

[hossman777]

Tried mine (again) Sunday at church. Thd BiValve line out to the PA. Sounded like crap. Hooked up a Mic and unplugged the line out. The BiValve has a built in attenuator. Great sounding amp...check it out. But yeah, line out on most tube amps that ive heard sucks

Sent from my ADR6300 using Gearslutz.com App

[dtherrien]

I had a lousy practice with my group at the church last night where I used a Fender SuperSonic 22W mic'd, and all I got were complaints about too much volume. This morning, I went back to the church with a Mesa F30 which has a line out and allows the internal speaker to be disabled. We have a Bose system that's permanently installed in our church and the guitar actually sounded very clear on the clean channel and had the right amount of tube breakup that could be heard on the dirty channel.I had to back off on the bass and mid on the Mesa, and then I could raise the volume so that it produced a full sound. This configuration also allows us to control the volume of the monitors from the mixer board so the band is not blown out of the room by the volume. Through the Bose house speakers, the sound was bright and clear, through our (crappy) monitors it was a little muddy, so I'll need to compensate for that when I play. I'm doing mostly funkyclean rhythms, short distorted leads, or slightly distorted arpegiated chords with tremolo or chorus for ballad-style worship songs. All delay and reverb effects are useless because the church is a wide open space full of reverb, and even nice delays that work in the studio are swamped out by the worship space of the church.

[wesarvin]

Amp Isolation

Drummers hate 'em.

Guitarists hate 'em.

Sound guys love them.

[thintele]

I was using a Super Champ XD for my church gig.Its a Tube hybrid with dsp effects, channel switching and a line out .Its also pretty light and not very expensive. I'll give the disclaimer that I work for FMIC ... but check it out. Its a fun little amp.

[BassBronson]

What about using mainstage? Or you can try a tube pre as your di. Otherwise you're down to amp isolation. Which sucks.

[nedorama]

Let's be clear - in most shows, be it worship or gigs, no one has the ability to have a cranked 50 or 100 watt amp - unless you're on a 40 foot stage.

Whether it's isolation, speaker load boxes, hybrid amp, you need to do something to tame the volume of your amp. If you can't get "your sound" from your current amp at the appropriate volume, it's the wrong tool for the job.

I still don't understand why the OP is asking for a tube amp when he's been using a solid state amp for a while.

Either buy a low wattage (hint - under 15 is low wattage, not 50) amp, buy an iso cab or Palmer, or just get one of the new floorboards. For what the OP is playing, the new floorboards would be just fine and no one in the audience will know the difference (or care).

[scottwilson]

Lexicon Signature 284 - only problem is no remote channel switching.

[scud133]

Traynor YCV amps have XLR direct out built in (at least my ycv20wr did). clean and dirty channels.

[darkhorse]

My Carvin V3 has std 1/4" line out w volume level.

You can also get yourself a good direct box and tap the speaker line and run the feed as a line out. Be sure to keep a load on the amp else it will burn up, tube amps are not designed to operate without a speaker or special dummy cap load.

[drbob1]

The OP wants a Tube Amp because they sound better! At least, they respond to the dynamics of playing guitar in a more pleasing way. So, how can you tame one for church?

1. Keep it turned down and use pedals for overdrive. It sounds like a bad idea, but we get by with my AC30 and an acoustic piano, everyone else goes direct. I have the amp turned up enough that I can hear it and no more. Sounds killer, all those Hillsong/U2 tones with my Hermida overdrives.

2. Smaller amp, cranked more. You can use a Red Box for an output, just plug the speaker wire into it and it gives you a balanced (mic) signal out with 212 or 412 speaker emulation. Since you're tapping the amp at the speaker you get the full power amp thing.

3. Attenuators

4. Reamp: a very small amp thru a larger solid state amp for enough volume to hear. Like the 30w H&K Crunch Machine.

[jimmiibass]

i like the idea of the speaker tap DI box. the H&K one sounds pretty decent from the video. that way i can keep it pointed at me so i can hear myself. the gym we play in is like a cave. absolutely terrible. and a could of you guys have recomended the V3? i like the tone and features and price, but is the line out any good?
im just tired of modeling amps. the feel is not that of a real amp, and it throws me off every time. that and there are limits to how many effects you can run at once. i dont know if you guys have ever listened to christian rock, but for the most part it sounds like an AC30 with 4 Roland space echos in the loop. most modeling amps cant handle more than one delay at a time. plusss i still want a decent highgain sound, for that ocasional crowder song...

[darkhorse]

I love my V3 amp, I have been using Carvin guitars and amps for over 10 years now and the price is just too good for the quality and tone.

The V3 is a three channel all tube head, with 3 option switch gain structure and EQ option band change on every channel, the versatility is boggling. It burns, it chimes, it does what you need without being a one trick pony.
I run an extensive pedal board setup and the amp has a great series and a parallel loop. The Line Out is also cabinet voiced optioned and vol leveled on the back panel. I believe all the Carvin models have line out taps.

A DI box, by the way, will not reduce the volume of the amp, just sends a straight tap of the speaker line signal to the board or recorder and pads it down altering the impedance and taking the wattage off. Works just like a mike without hearing any bleed from anything else, exactly like a line out. Now, an attenuator will power soak the wattage on the speaker line and reduce the volume of the amp itself.

I love the V3 myself, been the best amp I have had, the half stack was like $1500 and I have a vintage load 4x12. Their speakers have metal grills that would deflect a hammer verses that cheap ass grill cloth that tears looking at it. When I first got this amp I just marveled at the looks of it for a good 15 minutes. It sounds amazing and so easy to change tubes and rebias to different power tubes if you want. When I was playing in Austin I was known as the Carvin guy because all my guitars and amps were Carvin and they killed.

Carvin makes some smaller amps that would probably be perfect for your gig use. I swear by them myself. I used to have a nice Marshall half stack that cost me twice as much but it was not twice the amp. Carvin runs an ad that this amp contains the entire history of tube amp tones in it's option switching. They also make a 50 watt and lower V3 head now. Also a lot of combo packages. Steve Vai plays and designed the Carvin Legacy head and cab he is pretty picky on tone.

I use their guitars and have for many years, custom builds with the wood you want, hardware options and wiring, and they put your name on the truss rod cover plate. Sweet. You can pay a hell of a lot more and get a hell of lot less.