How to lower tube amp volume?

[fireandglass]

How to lower tube amp volume?

I have acquired some great amps lately, but they are all 130watts+ and sound best of course, at loud volumes. I got a Bugera 1960 (140 watts) and a Musciman HD-130 (130 Watts). Having a new born baby girl...cranking the amp isnt always an option so i bought a groove tubes speaker emulator. The speaker emulator says it can only had 100 watts max.

1. Could I break the speaker emulator if i try to run these amps through it? Even at low volumes?
2. If so, is there a way i can lower the wattage/volume?
3. Can you install a master volume without changing the tone?
4. I heard about pulling tubes, would this achieve what i want?

Thank you in advance for any help.

[ivansc]

You are pretty unlikely to break the speaker sim, as they are usually a big ol` resistor that gets very hot but is unlikely to cook unless you run cranked for hours on end.

And you have obviously found the Fatal Flaw in that great toob sound/

Big or little, they only start sounding really hot when they are cranked.
Just remember there are a lot of very good smaller wattage tube amps out there too.
This is a lot of the reason people are turning away from the big ol` 100watt plus mo`fo`s.
At least they are in the UK.

[affe110]

Look up Power Scale:
Power Scaling Tips | FargenAmps.com

[joh]

Originally Posted by fireandglass

How to lower tube amp volume?

I have acquired some great amps lately, but they are all 130watts+ and sound best of course, at loud volumes. I got a Bugera 1960 (140 watts) and a Musciman HD-130 (130 Watts). Having a new born baby girl...cranking the amp isnt always an option so i bought a groove tubes speaker emulator. The speaker emulator says it can only had 100 watts max.

1. Could I break the speaker emulator if i try to run these amps through it? Even at low volumes?
2. If so, is there a way i can lower the wattage/volume?
3. Can you install a master volume without changing the tone?
4. I heard about pulling tubes, would this achieve what i want?

Thank you in advance for any help.

If you are in germany, contact Frank Finkhäuser, he modded some amps for me to reduce volume without loss of tone.


www.amptechnik.de

[nedorama]

Look at the Dr. Z Air Brake, THD Hot Plate, etc. You need an attenuator, not a speaker simulator. These have big resistors and are rated for 100-150 watts.

The Music Man is a great amp; with a baby, you may want to consider selling one of the amps and getting a smaller amp - a Princeton Reverb, for example, or get a solid state that you can plug in headphones and not wake anyone. Roland's Microcubes are fun, inexpensive and could be great for late hour practicing.

[dasindevin]

go hot plate!! they aren't super cheap, but i see up pop up used often enough

nothing beats the real thing of letting an amp open up! - also opens up a nice world of tones that would otherwise deafen you

Also there's the marshall power break, though i think it is a bit pricier than the THD unit

[fireandglass]

i would check out a smaller amp in ADDITION to these amps but come on....i cant get rid of this stuff!! it sounds amazing i just need to tame them. your going to put a roland cube in the same thread as a plexi?!? come on now...

the reason i have a speaker simulator is so i can record at home without comprising the sound of a mic'd speaker cab. i cant stand amp plug ins.

i would get a hot plate but i was looking at them and they are some $$$ (which is fine) but it seems like i need a different hot plate for each ohm load?!? if thats how it is, then f*ck them.

thanks for all the input guys

[drbob1]

How loud do you need to crank up? A 130 watt amp sounds really loud putting out 4 watts. Or to put it differently, fully cranked it puts out 200w, at 20w it sounds 1/2 as loud, at 2w it's 1/4 as loud. So, if you don't need the same effect as having it cranked up to 10, you should be fine with the speaker simulator. BTW, does that one have a built in load so that you don't need a speaker plugged in? Many of them don't and you need a dummy load to keep the amp from blowing up. You can actually build your own dummy load... you can buy 20w, 16 ohm resistors at Radio Shack. 4 in parallel gives you 4 ohms at 80w, 4 sets of 4 in series gives you 16 ohms at 320 w and you'd be fine...

[guitarwolle]

Originally Posted by fireandglass

2. If so, is there a way i can lower the wattage/volume?

Yes, there is a way to easily lower the wattage without any changes to the amp - Tone Bones. They allow you to install EL84 tubes (app. 8 watt each) in lieu of the power tubes of your amp.

On my Marshall 2203 I've installes 2 of them, so it has 16 watts - in just pulling them out and reinstalling the 4 original tubes ist a 100 Watt amp again. This is possible as the EL84 with the Tone Bones dont need a bias adjustment.

There are different grades of EL84 tubes available giving you a hrder or softer tone.

I started 5 years ago experimenting with these with awesome results. My amps are modded anyhow, so after some further changes I'm in a position to record really greaat rock sounds (I'm no Heavy Metal guy) aswell as crunch and clean sounds.

If you've got the right cabs - in my case pre Rola G12H30 and G12M25's - you will never look back.

Here is a link:

Röhren, AMP Kits und Lautsprecher - Tube Amp Doctor

By the way, to further change your tone with Tone Bones, you can get Penthode and Triode versions.

[Methlab]

I have the same dilemma since I don't want to annoy my neighbors. Tube amps sound how I want at 10. I am thinking of going 30 watt max, even for gigging.

For practice, I bought an Orange Microcrush. For not being tube, it still has a very cool tone with a les paul or tele. I can keep it at low volumes and get a very nice tone for practice purposes. It is no tube amp, but it is really cool for the price.

For your 100 watters, I would dummyload.

[Blast9]

Originally Posted by guitarwolle

Yes, there is a way to easily lower the wattage without any changes to the amp - Tone Bones. They allow you to install EL84 tubes (app. 8 watt each) in lieu of the power tubes of your amp.

On my Marshall 2203 I've installes 2 of them, so it has 16 watts - in just pulling them out and reinstalling the 4 original tubes ist a 100 Watt amp again. This is possible as the EL84 with the Tone Bones dont need a bias adjustment.

There are different grades of EL84 tubes available giving you a hrder or softer tone.

I started 5 years ago experimenting with these with awesome results. My amps are modded anyhow, so after some further changes I'm in a position to record really greaat rock sounds (I'm no Heavy Metal guy) aswell as crunch and clean sounds.

If you've got the right cabs - in my case pre Rola G12H30 and G12M25's - you will never look back.

Here is a link:

Röhren, AMP Kits und Lautsprecher - Tube Amp Doctor

By the way, to further change your tone with Tone Bones, you can get Penthode and Triode versions.

Similar to the THD Yellow Jacket

[guitarwolle]

Originally Posted by Blast9

Similar to the THD Yellow Jacket

Yap, the same principle. You have to experiment with Penthode / Triode which are different types of sockets and with different grades of tubes - its worth it.

[fireandglass]

Finally! This THD yellow jacket seems to be what im looking for. Now i just have to figure out what sockets each amp has? Thank you guys, i knew id get an answer here

[Kiddjazz]

..::: Faustine Phantom Attenuator :::..

incredible box.....if retaining the sonic signature of your amp ie. transparency is a priority, these attenuators are amazing.
Lots of good footage and clips in the media section of the site.... (proof as it were)

[Blast9]

OUCH! $949

Checking out the clips rigt now (I have told my wallet to go for a nice stroll for an hour or so....)

Pete Thorn is a tone-meister so it must be great

[Blast9]

Sounds great.

With the gtr soloed I prefer the scumback's sparkle in the clean tones

But... I definitely prefer the attenuator with the dirty tones thumbsup

I guess the Sm57 is picking up more highs in the centre of the cone

[nedorama]

Originally Posted by fireandglass

i would check out a smaller amp in ADDITION to these amps but come on....i cant get rid of this stuff!! it sounds amazing i just need to tame them. your going to put a roland cube in the same thread as a plexi?!? come on now...

Who said anything about a plexi? You've got a Music Man and a Bugera; one's good and the other one's OK. You've got a kid and that means you need to get the right tool for the job.

The MusicMan is a good amp, but no one needs that amount of wattage for home, clubs or live unless you're on a 40' stage. It's also the reason why Fender Twin Reverbs are going so cheap used - no one needs that anymore. Anything over 40 watts nowadays is overkill for playing in a band with others unless you're playing that big of a show. Even then, a lot of folks are playing with 40-50 watters and under. But if you're happy with the sound, by all means.

The reason I suggested the Roland cube is that it's cheap and has a headphone jack - even with Yellow Jackets and attenuators, your Music Man will still be a loud amp. There's also no guarantee with the different tubes that you'll like the sound of your amp, since it was voiced for 6L6 tubes and now you're putting in something completely different. The Roland is $100 new - a lot cheaper than modding your amp. Think of this as a home baby solution, not replacing your rig. I have 2 kids and when they were a baby I had to use my old rack guitar setup instead of my Fenders or Dr. Z - it wasn't better, but it kept the volume down and I could still practice, play and record.

As for the Bugera, if it's still working I'd still sell it. Behringer isn't known for quality, but if you're happy with it and haven't had any issues then by all means keep it.

[Kiddjazz]

blast9...... Pete is a tone-meister!!!

I bought mine to tame an old Burman creation and have since become a bit of an addict

[fireandglass]

people can say what they want about he bugera but mine is a beast. i had mercury magnetics build a custom power transformer, choke, and install their input and output transformers. id love to stack it up against a real plexi but for the price point this thing sounds close enough.

[Scott Whigham]

Originally Posted by Blast9

With the gtr soloed I prefer the scumback's sparkle in the clean tones

But... I definitely prefer the attenuator with the dirty tones thumbsup

I guess the Sm57 is picking up more highs in the centre of the cone

Just coming 'round to the Faustine myself. In Pete's video, isn't he using the V-Speaker output for those tones rather than the attenuator output? That certainly would change things. Maybe I misunderstood though!

[cinealta]

Interested in the Faustine V-speaker recording, as well. Even at nearly $1k there's a 4 month wait list.

[drumdrum]

Originally Posted by fireandglass

How to lower tube amp volume?

I have acquired some great amps lately, but they are all 130watts+ and sound best of course, at loud volumes. I got a Bugera 1960 (140 watts) and a Musciman HD-130 (130 Watts). Having a new born baby girl...cranking the amp isnt always an option so i bought a groove tubes speaker emulator. The speaker emulator says it can only had 100 watts max.

1. Could I break the speaker emulator if i try to run these amps through it? Even at low volumes?
2. If so, is there a way i can lower the wattage/volume?
3. Can you install a master volume without changing the tone?
4. I heard about pulling tubes, would this achieve what i want?

Thank you in advance for any help.

I'm actually in the same boat as you at the moment. I have a JCM2000 DSL100 (100W) going through a 4x12 cab thats just too loud when cranked.

What was suggested to me was to try using a 1x12 cab to reduce the volume.

THD hotplates are good, but they only come in one flavour which is very annoying.

Koch make a load box which is meant to be very good and there are loads of other attenuators that work in similar ways.

Just be aware that using attenuators will suck a bit of the high end out of the sound. You can add this back in later or try to compensate for it with EQ but they do affect the sound a little bit.

[django]

Yeah if you get a load box try and get one like one of the weber ones with a speaker coil in it. Since a load resistor applies a linear impedence accross all frequencys which wont sound very natural and if you use a speaker coil for the load it'll act much more like an actual speaker.