Buying a Pro-level Clean Amp for Pop and Rock

[Ialsoeathummus]

One of the last parts of my home studio is going to be a great amp. I have never bought an amp before so please help me decide!

I'm mostly using a G&L USA Legacy Strat with Lindy Fralin Blues Special Pickups. Mic'ing it up with various options into a Vintech 273 --> Rosetta 200. It's a single-room studio so I would prefer an option that allowed awesome sounds at reasonable volumes.

I need a clean tone that will be solid primarily for acoustic pop music (John Mayer, Colbie Callait, Jason Mraz) and less often for clean parts in slick pop-rock records. A plus would be a top-notch blues tone (John Mayer again) to bring some character to certain pop applications.

I'm looking at a Deluxe Reverb Reissue or Vibrolux Reissue. Am I even in the right direction? I like the tone of both, but have no idea if either are sufficient in pro applications. Any ideas on those two or new suggestions?

[Mario-C.]

both sound great. I like the vibrolux and the twin.

[nedorama]

skip the reissues and get a blackface or silverface Princeton, Deluxe or Twin reverb. Better sound, and easier for techs to work on. Should appreciate in value as well.

[Ialsoeathummus]

Originally Posted by nedorama

skip the reissues and get a blackface or silverface Princeton, Deluxe or Twin reverb. Better sound, and easier for techs to work on. Should appreciate in value as well.

Are repairs common and expensive on the older amps? I can't really afford to have an amp that's going to require regular maintenance.

And is ebay the best place for this or my local used guitar store? I'm shopping in NYC this week. 30th street guitars seems to have a lot of old amps.

[BLUElightCory]

Plus one for Fender tube amps, new or old. It's hard to go wrong.

[Ialsoeathummus]

Originally Posted by BLUElightCory

Plus one for Fender tube amps, new or old. It's hard to go wrong.

Could I go wrong by getting a vintage amp and not having the knowledge or large financial means to take care of it? Or are these amps generally rock solid?

Check this local one out: http://newyork.***************/brk/msg/1455709449.html

I have no idea about the year (1965), "blackface", or anything else of the specs. It's so confusing to buy Fender guitars and Fender amps. I can understand some of the literal differences but don't understand the practical differences in sound.

I just want a killer amp so I can focus on the MUSIC

[Ialsoeathummus]

I just read this article - What To Look For When Buying A Fender Used Amp - and I'm turned off of buying anything that isn't 100% new unless the sound difference is going to be big.

I don't think I have the knowledge, eyes or ears to (1) choose a rock-solid used amp and (2) maintain it if anything blows.

While I'll still consider the idea of vintage amps, I think new amps could be a better direction.

That's the choice I made with my UA 1176 reissue and I'm happy. I feel I got 95% of the sound I wanted with 0% of the risk.

Thoughts?

[nedorama]

No reason to be scared. Lots of musicians are gigging with amps that are 20, 30, 40 years old.

Couple of things that need to be done to these amps that doesn't cost an arm and a leg:

- Changing the power cord to a 3 prong version and removing the "death cap," if any
- Changing the power filter capacitors

Both have no affect on tone but will keep the shock hazard out.

Remember with older amps, all the parts are replaceable at the component level, so it can cost you less than when the PCB board or the cheap input jacks (soldered to the PC board) break. Much less on parts cost.

Many people feel the older silver face and blackface versions sound superior to the reissues, and they're holding their value better. If you read on the Fender forums, people have had some issues with the reissues. Even new, you'll need to replace the speaker and tubes to get better tone.

I regularly gig 1-2x a month with practice every Friday with either an old Fender Princeton Reverb or my '65 2x12 Bandmaster combo - that's a 44 year old amp and it's going strong.

Living in NY there are lots of amp techs who grew up learning to work on tube amps, so you've got lots of options.

[Ialsoeathummus]

Originally Posted by nedorama

Many people feel the older silver face and blackface versions sound superior to the reissues, and they're holding their value better. If you read on the Fender forums, people have had some issues with the reissues.

I believe it. But I have the [possibly false] impression that I could easily buy a junk piece if I don't know what I'm doing. I have NO idea what a great one is supposed to sound like next to another.

I just called a local NY place. $1200-1400 for vintage deluxe reverbs. Can I count on them to scope the amps out. And are these reasonable prices?

Originally Posted by nedorama

No reason to be scared. Lots of musicians are gigging with amps that are 20, 30, 40 years old.

Even new, you'll need to replace the speaker and tubes to get better tone.

What's the general cost to do that?

[davet]

I use a 66 Blackface Fender Bassman for a guitar amp. I like it's simplicty, great tone, easy to fix if I need it. Moreover, it's a head so I use it with a single 12" cab or a 4x12 Marshall.

The down side is that it's a bit noisy, so it's less that ideal as a recording amp. I've got around $800.00 in it.

My buddy has a Reeves Custom 50 head. This is a killer amp! Well built, sounds great. Properly taken care of this amp will outlive both of us. It has clean tone for days, very quiet, takes pedals well, powerful amp. They aren't cheap. He bought his used, but like new for $1300.00.

So, I would look at buying a head vs. a combo. Most of the decent combos are just to heavy to lug around. Lots of heads to chose from: Dr. Zs are nice. Then have a collection of cabs for different gigs.
DT

[octatonic]

Check out 65 Amps.

I have the Soho, which is a 20 watt EL84 loaded, class A amp.
Sound wise it is 1/2 Fender Deluxe with a healthy dose of Vox in the mix.
The bump switch (midrange shift) puts you into JTM45 territory.

Very versatile amp- and when I say versatile I mean it.
It doesn't do a bad version of Fender and then a lame Marshall.
Very authentic, dynamic and touch sensitive.

[nedorama]

Another thought:

Since you'll be recording, you don't need to get high wattage - 12 watts or less will do. Here's some ideas that you could get to have a great collection and stay under a reasonable budget:

Fender Champ - doesn't matter Blackface or silverface, they didn't change this amp when CBS bought it. With a mic, sounds Fender great.

Reeves Custom 6 - 6 watt monster. Handwired, amazing tone. Reeves Amplification Custom 6 and Custom 12 These are going for around $500 on eBay: Reeves Custom 6 Hiwatt Marshall Plexi - eBay (item 180446493363 end time Dec-17-09 22:19:56 PST)



Dr. Z Mini Z - again, great amp with slightly different flavors. Handwired, amazing tone. Mini-Z -- Dr. Z Amplification

Buy a good quality 1x12 speaker cab and get a quality Celestion or weber in there, and you've got multiple tonal options.

good luck!

[davet]

Reeves amps also offer Power Scaling. Get a 50 watt that you can crank down for your studio work, turn it up for stage.

DT

[lord_bunny]

I have the reissue Deluxe Reveb. A friend has the vintage real-deal. I'm also a G&L guy, the ASAT.

The vintage one didn't really change my life in comparison to my modern version. I like the Deluxe more than the twin, it seems a little more focused in the mid's and you can get it to break up at 5-7 on the volume and not have to deal with stadium volumes. It's killer on clean stuff, it's also my favourite amp for use with a 4x12 cabinet.

[madstrat]

the reeves 50 is the ultimate clean platform for my needs...

built like a tank...can sound like a piano... and never met a pedal it didn't like-

can give up some good british grind when cranked

customer support is top notch as well

[FFTT]

The Reeves Custom 50 or 100 depending on how much headroom you want.

If you want even Bigger Cleans, the Custom 225 with 4XKT88's

I would be real interested to hear a Custom 100 configured with
KT88's as well.

For more of a Fender flavor, take a look at VVT Amps, The Fralin Model
and the twin based Earthquake series.

Two Rock, Bruno, Pure 64, Category 5, Suhr Custom Shop all make exceptional clean amps as well.

[Ialsoeathummus]

All of this is helpful. I'm gonna hit the shops again this week.

Does anyone have recordings of their amp to share? That would be great!

[FFTT]

Plenty of Reeves clips on youtube.

[ellmanl]

I own 4 blackface fender amps: 1965 Princeton Reverb, 1964 Delxue Reverb, 1965 Vibroluxe Reverb and 1965 Twin Reverb., and almost never have to service them. Really, they are built like tanks. Every few years something minor happens, usually user error, usually fixed for 200 bucks or so. Very, very good at clean sounds, and they take all pedals really well. You can get any sound you want. Maybe not a certain compressed hi-gain sound. but damn close. And if you plug them into different cabinets you can even get that. Oh yeah, did I mention they go up in value every year?

[Ialsoeathummus]

Originally Posted by ellmanl

I own 4 blackface fender amps: 1965 Princeton Reverb, 1964 Delxue Reverb, 1965 Vibroluxe Reverb and 1965 Twin Reverb., and almost never have to service them. Really, they are built like tanks. Every few years something minor happens, usually user error, usually fixed for 200 bucks or so. Very, very good at clean sounds, and they take all pedals really well. You can get any sound you want. Maybe not a certain compressed hi-gain sound. but damn close. And if you plug them into different cabinets you can even get that. Oh yeah, did I mention they go up in value every year?

So what are the fair selling values of these amps now. I see everything from $1400 to $3500 at local used dealers.

[Ialsoeathummus]

Originally Posted by FFTT

Plenty of Reeves clips on youtube.

Plenty of vibrolux and deluxe reverb clips on youtube as well. I watched a ton and haven't found any that were recorded well enough to distinguish carefully between similar but different rigs.

I think it's more useful to hear it in someone's "proper" recording.

Anyone with relevant recordings of their clean rig is welcome to share.

[FFTT]

There are so many variables between signal chain, guitars, player's style and attack,
I understand the frustration, but sometimes home made clips are all that exist.

Many of these truly fine new amps are builder direct only, so you won't see some in stores. Others like Two Rock, Bruno, 65 Amps, /13, Carol Anne, Category 5, Pure 64,
Louis Electric, Matchless, Bad Cat etc. are only going to be found in higher end specialty shops. Check their sites for a list of dealers.
At least in New York you have plenty of stores to choose from.

There are also several annual amp expos that are drawing larger and larger
groups of builders and potential buyers.

Sometimes you just have to grab your favorite guitar and go check out a whole
bunch of amps, just to get your bearings.

[ellmanl]

Originally Posted by Ialsoeathummus

So what are the fair selling values of these amps now. I see everything from $1400 to $3500 at local used dealers.

Those prices are all in the zone, depending on the model and the condition. One way to save money is to buy one that looks a bit ratty, or has re-coned or replaced speakers. The tolex isnt going to change the sound you know? But collectors will pay over 3k for something minty if they have GAS. Its also relative, if you buy one for less because of cosmetics or a modification, it will still go up in value over time as long as people continue to collect vintage gear.

[yieldvs10]

Reeves Custom 50 is great for clean or Fargen Blackbird for great clean blackface tones with a killer reverb. it's more subtle then a regular spring reverb.
If you can afford a decent amp, it makes no sense these days to be buying from a big manufacturer like fender when you can get a hand made point to point amp for not much more.

[FFTT]

As long as you know a good amp tech, buying vintage for home/studio use
is considerably less stressful than touring with vintage amps, where you need
backups.

If you want great cleans at reasonable volumes, superb natural crunch
and wonderful with pedals, keep your eye out for a '65 Ampeg Gemini I
or a 63-65 Reverberocket.

I've had several highly experienced studio musicians tell me my
'64 Reverberocket is the best sounding amp they've ever played through.
It loves strats! The Gemini I is the 2 channel bigger brother.

Total invested $850.00 in each of them.

If you want bigger bolder David Gilmour cleans the Reeves all the way, but
they are not really meant to be played quietly.

[Croaker]

Originally Posted by yieldvs10

Reeves Custom 50 is great for clean or Fargen Blackbird for great clean blackface tones with a killer reverb. it's more subtle then a regular spring reverb.
If you can afford a decent amp, it makes no sense these days to be buying from a big manufacturer like fender when you can get a hand made point to point amp for not much more.

agree 1000% do you live in new york? You should be able to find dealers for some of the amps mentioned...everybody has their fave.

I am particular to Victoria myself....lifetime warranty. Clips on their website. I have a vintage vibrolux and ampeg B15..thats enough vintage for me along with some nice boutique amps.

good luck on your search.....dont give in too easy and get a new fender, you will regret it down the road.