Need AMP HEAD suggestions for live rig!! please help!

[alexkemp]

Hi all please help me out with some suggestions:

current rig: Les Paul Custom, THD flexi 50 with 2 x EL34's, and a bunch of pedals that I'm using less and less... and a closed back 2 x 12 Guytron cab with 1 vintage 30 and one G12H.

I only have two problems with this rig: its a little fast/bright in the mid range. Too much bite, not compressed enough, not sparkly enough. Also, not enough clean headroom-- very very close, but it starts to crap out in the low end.

I'm playing indie rock, but mostly with a clean, fat, dark sound. Think Wes Montgomery type sounds-- not played nearly as well, but, you know...

Anyway, I tried a Matchless C-30 and that was pretty good on the clean channel-- more bottom and a Vox- like compression to the top, a little smoother in the 1k range too. Don't know if that was the 4 EL84's or something about the preamp section.

Also, I love a good black face bassman head, but they never have enough power for a big club gig.

I'd hate to spend more than 4 grand. Let's hear what you think!!!

[FFTT]

Some of your brightness issues might be solved experimenting with different speakers, but if you are going for a new touring rig, oh boy do you have some great choices.

In Fendery circuits, there's always a good old BF Super Reverb, Pro Reverb or Showman.

In new amps, look at Tone King, VVT Amps, Bad Cat Panther, Pure 64, Category 5,
Louis Electric, or Divided By 13.

For British flavors, Reeves, Reinhardt, Magic Amps, 65 Amps, Metro, Blankenship, Friedman, Suhr, so many.

To take out some of that harsh top end, you may want to go to AlNiCo's or a blend
of ceramics and AlNiCos.

[alexkemp]

useful stuff- thanks so much!

as far as tube outfits.... any pointers? I liked the 4 x EL84's of the matchless c-30, and probably I'm going to steer clear of 6V6's cause I don't love what they do to the low end.

And I really don't know about rectifier tubes, but I believe they play a part in the 'attack' of the amp... any thoughts?

I've always liked this cab but I should probably look at an open back option...

[FFTT]

You are only going to get so much clean headroom out of 4EL84's.

The Matchless DC30 is good as well as the Bad Cat Black Cat 30R

As good as these are, I would probably go for a Divided By 13 RSA 31
in a head version with a matching 2X12 cab, loaded with Celestion Blues
or Scumback M75 HP's

Good enough for Rusty Anderson with Paul McCartney's band.




If you want more clean headroom and a great platform for pedals
I'd go for the Reeves Custom 50 or CP-504 if you want the extra gain stage.

For Marshall circuits and touring racks, I'd go to Rack Systems LTD
Dave Friedman's Marsha

The Reinhardt Storm is also good enough for Mark Knopfler on his tour.

[alexkemp]

thanks a lot man, I really appreciate the tips. I was looking at the RSA 31. Also the Louis Electric KR 12 looks really interesting, and the category 5 Isabelle.

Now I just have to track these down in LA so I can hear 'em!

[FFTT]

It's easy to hear the Divided By 13

Just search through the youtube clips of McCartney's 2009 tour or
rent/buy the DVD Paul McCartney at Red Square.

The only limitation is that Rusty uses just two ES-335s for the whole show.

He switches back and forth between his RSA31 and his RSA 23, plus he has
all that Pete Cornish wizardry in his rack.

I haven't personally heard the Louis Electrics or the Category 5's but the owners
sure seem to love them.

Just looking at the /13 web site it says True Tone Music is a dealer in LA.

Rack Systems LTD is located in Hollywood
They can set you up with anything you want.

[Musiclab]

Did you ever try any Guytron Amps? those are really nice.
The Egnaters are really good for less money

[alexkemp]

guytron stopped building for a while.... seems they've been bought though and are back in production.

I saw a /13 amp at true tone, but not the RSA 31. I can probably go to the shop though, maybe.

[FFTT]

I don't know enough about the dealer situation out there.
or who might carry the better gear.

You'll have to check with the individual builders about availability.

[FFTT]

Found a list of Divided By 13 dealers

Eddie's Guitars - St. Louis, MO
Fat Sound Guitars – Cary, NC
Action Music – Arlington, VA
Guitar25 – Austin, TX
True Tone Music – Santa Monica, CA
McKenzie River Music – Eugene, OR
Go Music Center – Berea, KY
Super Sound Music – San Diego, CA
Mass Street Music - Lawrence, KS
Rock N Roll Vintage - Chicago, IL
Black Creek Guitars - New Paltz, NY
The Music Zoo - Little Neck, NY
Boutique Guitar Exchange - Atlanta, GA
Cowtown Guitars - Las Vegas, NV
Wild West Guitars - Riverside, CA
Boston Guitar Works - Boston, MA
Ultimatone - Orlando, FL
Musictoyz – Falmouth, ME

[tazman]

Fender 65' Reissue Twin Reverb with a couple of OD.distortion pedals in front of it. Clean till your heart desires and OD/distortion from the pedals

[enharmonic]

65 Royal Albert would be a great choice

[FFTT]

Originally Posted by enharmonic

65 Royal Albert would be a great choice

Yeah 65 Amps builds them right too and the Albert is their bigger block head.

It all depends on where he wants his cleans to break to crunch and at what volumes.

Will he be running with good monitors or in ears?

[alexkemp]

going to try out the albert at True Tone next week. ALso want to reach out to the /13 peeps and listen to the RSA 31.

If anyone has a Louis Electric in LA let me know-- I'm dying to hear it. The youtube videos make it seem like its really nice. I love the thickness of the humbucker clean sound.

[FFTT]

If you try the RSA 31, see if they will let you try it through a Vox 2X12 loaded with
blues if they don't have a /13 cab loaded with blues.

Try it through a 4X12 too loaded with greenies if at all possible.

You might also want to A/B the RSA31 against the FRT 37 just to see which you prefer
as far as clean headroom.

If at all possible, also try a Bad Cat Black Cat, Panther and Lynx just to get your bearings.

Once you decide which way you're going, shop HARD for the best price and service.

Retail quotes on these amps are nuts.

[Quantumphysics]

Originally Posted by alexkemp

Hi all please help me out with some suggestions:

current rig: Les Paul Custom, THD flexi 50 with 2 x EL34's, and a bunch of pedals that I'm using less and less... and a closed back 2 x 12 Guytron cab with 1 vintage 30 and one G12H.

I only have two problems with this rig: its a little fast/bright in the mid range. Too much bite, not compressed enough, not sparkly enough. Also, not enough clean headroom-- very very close, but it starts to crap out in the low end.

I'm playing indie rock, but mostly with a clean, fat, dark sound. Think Wes Montgomery type sounds-- not played nearly as well, but, you know...

Anyway, I tried a Matchless C-30 and that was pretty good on the clean channel-- more bottom and a Vox- like compression to the top, a little smoother in the 1k range too. Don't know if that was the 4 EL84's or something about the preamp section.

Also, I love a good black face bassman head, but they never have enough power for a big club gig.

I'd hate to spend more than 4 grand. Let's hear what you think!!!

This is not a problem you can throw money at - a simple HRDLX with a pedal could work (take fx send into a clean rig to move more air if needed) if you tweak it right.

Try five different guitars with your rig before going on the expensive amp chase.

Tweak - adjust pups - rebias - speaker placement - set up a X/Y mic 20 ft from the stage - listen to the recording flat the next morning with fresh ears. See how you are sitting in the mix.
If none of that works - purchase one my DSL-50's - Jeff Beck used them for years (live and studio)

[barryjohns]

Surprised to not see the Mesa Boogie Mark V anywhere in this thread?

[FFTT]

Buy an amp built to last decades that anyone can fix anywhere on the planet.

[alexkemp]

Really appreciate all the opinions and advice!

I'm not really in pursuit of 'one great amp to rule them all,' more so I'm trying to track down the right sound for this one specific band I'm playing with. And I know the guitar is right-- les paul custom. And the cab good but not perfect-- might want tog go for a 4x12. But the amp is definitely a problem- it just starts farting out before I can keep up with the kick drum and bass and rhodes.

All this stuff about speakers and guitars and heads-- none of it really means much until you put your amp on the stage next to the drummer and across from the bass player and start playing. Then it either helps you make your statement or it gets in your way...

[FFTT]

4XEL84, no matter who builds it, is only going to get you about 30 watts RMS.

That's plenty loud with good monitoring, but you're probably going to struggle
to hear yourself without good monitors, meaning that you'll play harder than you need to, driving the amp into breakup.

If you really want to cut through and have some reserve headroom, try to see if you can get your hands on a vintage Hiwatt DR-504 or DR-103, just for reference.
It wouldn't hurt to try out a vintage Super Reverb either.

I don't personally care for vintage 30's even the U.K. originals.
I find them harsh and ice picky even after break in.
While they cut through for modern metal, there's nothing smooth about them.

At least you are looking for an amp during the best ever era for finding just the
perfect solution.

A mind boggling selection of options, but some very fine options.

[nedorama]

Alex - if you're at Truetone, be sure to check out the Dr. Z amps, either combo or head + cab. The MAZ 38 could be right up your alley, or the Prescription ES. They have a full room of the amps to audition and are built amazingly tough.

FYI - if the MAZ 38 and a mic to the PA aren't loud enough, don't know what is - these days you should be able to get great stage sound, tone and great FOH sound with any amp under 50 watts with a decent mic.

[megl]

Originally Posted by FFTT

To take out some of that harsh top end, you may want to go to AlNiCo's or a blend
of ceramics and AlNiCos.

Great advice IMO. Try a Blue or Gold instead of the V30!! Alnico and G12H30 is a very good combo!

It would be a great thing to try before changing the amp

Many people really hate the V30 for anything else than Metal

/megl

[megl]

Originally Posted by FFTT

If you really want to cut through and have some reserve headroom, try to see if you can get your hands on a vintage Hiwatt DR-504 or DR-103, just for reference.
It wouldn't hurt to try out a vintage Super Reverb either.

Again, great advice!!

megl

[FFTT]

There are so many choices out there today, that it's a really good idea to start
with a known benchmark to get your bearings.

There's a reason these amps are classic and desirable.

[alexkemp]

Hi slutz

just wanted to finish this discussion up by saying after trying about 20 different amps, mostly new but some vintage, I finally bought a LOUIS ELECTRIC KR-12 head, and I'm playing it through a closed back 2x12 Guytron cab.

This amp is amazing, the low end and the midrange-- just incredible. This amp is ready for a fight. I've just gotten it so I'll post more after I put it through its paces.

and I can't say enough about Louis-- great guy and really passionate about his work. And at first blush, this amp puts everything else I tried to shame.

[FFTT]

KR-12 Good choice!

So what speakers did you go for in the cab?

[alexkemp]

right now its a vintage 30 and a v12-80 (which is a weird speaker...) I think I'm going to switch to a g12-H and the Vintage 30.

Lou's a genius though, so now I'm thinking maybe I need his cab (which is an open back with 2 vintage 30's I believe). This amp is crazy. The way it reacts is so perfect, and the low end will kick you in the nutz.

Even my drummer noticed! It's weird, I can player louder and it just doesn't hurt the way my THD did. That thing was sooo bright and fast in the 1k-3k range. The KR-12 is just rich and mellow, but still has absolute authority, if you know what I mean. Its still fast, just not 'ganky.'

[FFTT]

From every clip I've heard, the Scumback M75 HP 65 watt may be your best option
in a ceramic. The Vintage 30's are designed as an affordable "good enough" driver
that cuts through, especially for metal and to give underpowered amps some headroom.
IMHO, the V-30's are used to increase profit margins and not the best choice if
you're going for warmth.

If you have a well stocked store close by, see if they can let you bring the amp in
to try a bunch of different cab and speaker combinations.

[nedorama]

FYI - Scumback speakers are in LA, down in Palos Verdes at the southern end of Western. A bit of a schlep from Venice, but then you could try out the speakers with your amp and gear to see if they're what you'd want.

For a ceramic 12, the Weber California 12's with silver dust caps are as close as you'll get to the original JBL D120s. have them in my Bandmaster combo and they are great for clean, dirt and full on roar.

[FFTT]

When you're having issues with the sounds being too bright, dunno if I would
go for a metal dust cap. I traded a JBL K120 AlNiCo for a Fane ceramic because
the JBL was so bright.