pedal board help...please

[goldtop44]

Hey everyone...I discovered this forum yesterday and can't stop checking all the posts! Nonetheless, I am having some problems with my pedal board. I posted this question on another thread about George L cables. However, I am very curious as to any other advice about my current set-up.

OK...here's the problem...when I hooked everything up the other night for a gig, my tone was muddy and life-less. The tone was the same with different guitars and when I tested the board afterward with a different amp, the mud was still there.

Here's the set-up...

Dan-o-matic tuner
Dunlop crybaby wah
Keeley 2 knob compressor
Marshall guv'nor (80's model)
Rat (newer model)
EH Small Stone Phaser
Keeley Katana

into a Fender Blues Deville

This set-up has always had wonderful sparkle and incredible tone...however, the other night it was a terrible dissapointment.

Everything is connected with George L's

an earlier reply suggested that the lack of tru-bypass was the problem...but would that still be the case if this just happened?

Any input, would be greatly appreciated.

thanks!!!!

[popvulture]

Most of those pedals are not true bypass, and since you've got quite a few, they'll definitely add up to a little tone suckage.

I know you can have some pedals modded by your local guitar shop to be true bypass, or if you're the adventurous type, maybe you could learn yourself. Another option would be to upgrade a couple of the pedals. The first thing that pops out at me is the wah - maybe think of something like one of the Teese RMC models. They're worth the money.

Or you could always just take a couple out of your chain. In my opinion it's always better if you can edit your pedals down.

[popvulture]

Ah I missed the part about TB being mentioned already. I don't think a problem like this would pop up suddenly due to cables. The George Ls should be fine, and if they were causing a problem, it would sound completely different. Popping and cutting out.

I'd still put all my money on lack of TB.

[rogerbrain]

Originally Posted by goldtop44

Hey everyone...I discovered this forum yesterday and can't stop checking all the posts! Nonetheless, I am having some problems with my pedal board. I posted this question on another thread about George L cables. However, I am very curious as to any other advice about my current set-up.

OK...here's the problem...when I hooked everything up the other night for a gig, my tone was muddy and life-less. The tone was the same with different guitars and when I tested the board afterward with a different amp, the mud was still there.

Here's the set-up...

Dan-o-matic tuner
Dunlop crybaby wah
Keeley 2 knob compressor
Marshall guv'nor (80's model)
Rat (newer model)
EH Small Stone Phaser
Keeley Katana

into a Fender Blues Deville

This set-up has always had wonderful sparkle and incredible tone...however, the other night it was a terrible dissapointment.

Everything is connected with George L's

an earlier reply suggested that the lack of tru-bypass was the problem...but would that still be the case if this just happened?

Any input, would be greatly appreciated.

thanks!!!!

if the order of pedals is exactly the same and the sound has changed then one of your pedals or cords has changed.

reality check

the wah goes FIRST in line... the second pedal needs to be the one with the highest input impedence.

A DANO anything will suck tone, if the wah is not a true bypass it will suck tone as well. small stone is generally not TBP and will suck a lot of tone as well.

you have a LOT of variability in your gain staging available and this will effect tone a lot.. and the Keeley comp is not the brightest one on the market.. if you hit that a little too hard it will go dull on you ...

so what has changed?

[goldtop44]

Originally Posted by rogerbrain

if the order of pedals is exactly the same and the sound has changed then one of your pedals or cords has changed.

reality check

the wah goes FIRST in line... the second pedal needs to be the one with the highest input impedence.

A DANO anything will suck tone, if the wah is not a true bypass it will suck tone as well. small stone is generally not TBP and will suck a lot of tone as well.

you have a LOT of variability in your gain staging available and this will effect tone a lot.. and the Keeley comp is not the brightest one on the market.. if you hit that a little too hard it will go dull on you ...

so what has changed?

first of all...thanks so much to EVERYONE for all of the advice. I'm just such a tone junkie that I'm always tweaking and trying to find new things to try. As to what has changed...the tone went 'muddy', for lack of a better term...no sparkle. It was just very dull. The show before (2 nights) the amp sounded PERFECT...not so much at this one.

[Iggy Poop]

Well something has definitely changed then, you'll need to troubleshoot it. Try going through one pedal to the amp, then add one more and so on till you find the point where the sound changes significantly.

[goldtop44]

Now, something that might help this along is an issue that I have had with the wah pedal...

The other night when we were setting up, I checked the pedals during soundcheck and when I engaged the wah pedal it made a horrible rushing wind type of sound. I have removed it from the chain but still have lost tone. Prior to this, while preparing for a show, the amp had a sudden and noticeable volume loss. When I tinkered with the cable connections, everything came back up and I wrote it off as a poor connection. Is it possible that when the wah went down that it damaged something else in the chain? Just curious.

[Slate]

Originally Posted by goldtop44

first of all...thanks so much to EVERYONE for all of the advice. I'm just such a tone junkie that I'm always tweaking and trying to find new things to try. As to what has changed...the tone went 'muddy', for lack of a better term...no sparkle. It was just very dull. The show before (2 nights) the amp sounded PERFECT...not so much at this one.

I've been playing since 1970 and hear ya about being a tome junkie. It seems that most guitarists are never quite happy with their 'tone',,,,, I know I can get close but I'm never 100% happy, no matter what I play through or what pedals I've used over the years.

In all honesty, a lower watt tube amp (instead of the big impressive looking one's you can't crank in a club anyways) will get you your best base tone. Pedals are really supposed to enhance the tone not 'make' the tone you are looking for.

As far as you liking your tone and now it's changed,,,,,,, all other issues about TBP and such are true, but if you liked what it sounded like then that is what counts the most. To me, it sounds like a cable or something happened to where one of your pedals isn't gettign the juice it needs.

What I'd do is connect each pedal individually and do a process of elimination to see if you can figure out whcih pedal is the problem. If they all sound good then start over with your cables and do the same.

Don't ya love being a guitarist? Such joy/Such agony,,,,,,, yet so addictive you'd never consider giving up!

[popvulture]

I agree with the above, and it goes back to what I said earlier about trying to use as few pedals as possible. Really this relates specifically to overdrive or distortion pedals. I think it's best to get as much of that out of your amp as possible.

I've got two single channel amps, so if you're like me, you might want an overdrive or a distortion on top of what your amp can produce so you don't have to deal so much with the volume knob on your guitar. My pedal setup is always my amp (Twin or a Matchless Chieftain) > Tuner > Klon Centaur > maybe a fuzz (either a Fulltone '69 or a Fender Blender) > maybe a boost > maybe a couple of other modulation/delay things. I completely understand using several delays etc if you want those sort of things that your amp can't do, but I'd keep the OD/Fuzz/Dist stuff to a minimum if you can.

There have been times when I've gone straight guitar > tuner > amp, and I have to say there's something awesome about it. It makes you a better player. Unless you're The Edge.

[goldtop44]

thanks everyone! I appreciate all the input. It really helps. I always like to know what other 'pickers' are thinking. I know how I'll spend my evening now...

[goldtop44]

just passing this along...after a lengthy evening of pluggin' and chuggin'...the tone significantly changed for the better after removing the Danelectro tuner and the dunlop wah.

Since I will be using additional amps and would like to switch between them, are there any suggestions for some sort of switching pedal that would also allow me to continue to use the tuner while keeping it out of the signal path?

As well, I am REALLY going to miss my crybaby...any suggestions for a suitable replacement that won't suck the tone out of the chain?

Thanks again!!!!! I truly do appreciate everyone taking time to help me out with this.

[BLUElightCory]

Just a heads up,

If you like the tones you're getting from your current pedal board, do a Google search for "true bypass strip." There are a few manufacturers that make these, it's essentially a series of individual loops that you can connect your pedals to that will take them out of the signal chain when not in use. Just leave the pedal themselves turned on, and switch them in and out of the chain using the true bypass strip.

[CapnMarvel]

The Teese RMC and Wizard wahs are absolutely fantastic and will not suck tone. I've tried all of the big builder wahs (ALL of them, or damn near) and the Teese Wizard wah won out handily. I also owned an RMC1 which was 99.9% as good as the Wizard, but tended to dislike humbuckers more.

Expensive, yeah, but a Teese will last forevah! (and isn't as much as a Fulltone).

[goldtop44]

Thanks again guys...I check that wah out and look for the true-bypass strips. I guess it's a good thing that this all happened. I never noticed the difference in tone when these pedals were all connected. Thanks again everyone!!!!!

[popvulture]

+1 for the Wizard. I love that thing, and it's easier to get a hold of than some of the other Teese models. Nice n' stonery.

[Hxd Ped]

I've used the Boss stomp box tuner for years and it's never made me cry.

I've also used the Boss LS-2 Line Selector before. Again, it's never made me cry. I don't use it anymore because I don't need it, but when I used it, it was fine.