Small Amp Suggestions

[JR11]

Basically I have a vox AC50 combo and a Fender Deville Combo. I'm moving to a townhouse so I can't really use either of these amps cause they're just too loud. I also want something smaller for recording purposes too. My budget is anything less than 1000. I don't want to spend 1000 but if that's the best option I will wait it out. I have looked at blues Jr.'s and the tiny terrors but I'm lookin for suggestions. Needs nice smooth distortion and needs to take pedals well too. I play mostly alternative, rock styles (nothing heavy, don't need cheese grater tone) so a nice overdrive and clean would be sweet.

[FFTT]

Reeves Custom 6, 12 or a great deal on a used 18
Same for the small Reinhardts
Red Iron Amps 5 Watter
Allen Sweet Spot
Used Gries 5
Lots of Ceriatones

[JR11]

One other thing I forgot. I would really like to get something "american" sounding. Kind of have the british sound covered with the vox. Lookin to diversify my amps for recording. The deville isn't bad, solid for rhythym parts, good layered but I want a nice american sound, not so bright, if that makes sense.

[FFTT]

Check out the used offerings for the smaller vintage Ampegs like the Jet, Reverberocket,
Gemini I

[chickencoop]

How about a good attenuator and an insolation cabinet? You could get both for <$1,000. I end up using one or both even with my 15 watt heads as they are still pretty loud. I have a Grendel Sound Dead Room II which is great (be prepared to wait a while if you order one, but worth the wait) and a Weber Mass 100. I spent a little over $600 for both.

[FFTT]

You might also consider buying a less efficient speaker say 96-97 SPL since
you're wanting something less bright and to help control volume.

For home recording 5-18 watts is way plenty.

If you can find a used Emery Sound Super Baby, that will give you all kinds of tonal options simply by running different tubes.

The Gries 5 is no longer available new, but it's one of the best small BF circuits around.

Tons of people use various champ circuits with a variety of Ceramics and AlNiCo's for recording. Add your favorite pedals and even re amp the signal through your larger
amps for a huge sound.

[eligit]

i always have to wonder what "small" means in reference to guitar amps.

think about it....on one hand you have things like 100-200 watt marshalls that can power 8 12 cabs....this is a device that can kill a human being at close range and would summon the police when played even a tiny of the way to full capacity.

on the other hand you have, say....a fender champ.

the funny part is that EVEN a fender champ can get the police called if you dime it. i was just playing a champ the other day.....it was loud as hell at "8" and you could hear it down the hall no problem. even "5" is a problem....and the same thing applies to all amps in that power range.

the only amp i have played that even approaches the idea of a "small" amp that is actually capable of power tube saturation at TRUE living room volume is the emery sound MICRObaby.

even such a tiny beast as that putting out something in the area of 1-2 watts can get the cops called if you dime it for more than an hour....or after 8pm on a weeknight in an apartment building with no professional sound proofing.

the only alternatives are things with power scaling, pre amp distortion, attenuators, etc....but all of those things DO effect the sound as compared to the "real deal".

other amps in that area of output (zvex micro amp, etc) are generally of lesser sound quality (not that i have tried everything that exists....but so far this is what i have heard).

a microbaby head can be had for under 1k and plugged into a variety of speakers and works great with pedals. to get a "clean" sound you need to keep the volume super low....but surprisingly it CAN attain a sweet fender type clean if you close mic it. it is just a very very quiet clean.

[chickencoop]

If you really need a very low watt (<1) amp the new Vox AC4 looks interesting, also the Black Heart [something]-Ant head, also ZVex NanoAmp, and the Songworks Little Lanelei.

[jacktadoussac]

swart amplifier co ~ Space Tone 6V6se - Atomic Space Tone - ST-Reverb - SST Head & Cab

It's all here. Personally, I have the five watt, non reverb amp at the top of the page. I've had it for two years and it still works. What more can you ask for? Seriously it gives more satisfaction than a grand worth of recording gear.

[Dean Roddey]

Zvex Nano (1/2 watt)
Emery MicroBaby (1 watt, or 2 watt's depending on tube selection)

Even those will be pretty loud cranked, but way better than a 5 or 10 or 20 watter.

[Unclenny]

Originally Posted by JR11

I have looked at blues Jr.'s

I always figured the BJ to be kind of a bread and butter amp.

That said, with the studio amps powered down for a while I've been spending a lot of time with mine of late.....the old SG plugged straight in, fooling around with the master/volume settings, twiddling knobs and such.........and getting some sweet and satisfying tones.

Of course, I am easy.

[eligit]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

Zvex Nano (1/2 watt)
Emery MicroBaby (1 watt, or 2 watt's depending on tube selection)

Even those will be pretty loud cranked, but way better than a 5 or 10 or 20 watter.

the zvex lacks the lovely tone of the emery......the zvex is amazing in that something that size can produce any sound at all....but i did not find it a very pleasing sound.

[Johnkenn]

Man, RUN to the store and buy a Fender Super Champ XD...I'm not kidding. It sounds like exactly what you're looking for. That's basically all I'm recording with right now. Fantastic Blackface and Tweed sounds on that thing - and a few usable DSP effects to boot. Try voicing number 2 on Channel 2 - it's a dirty Tweed that is the shiz...As far as small amps go, I had a Tweed Blues Jr. with the Jensen speaker that I sold for this amp - and I couldn't be happier.

$399

[GPl]

If you like the sound of your current amps, why wouldn't you consider an attenuator....I'd take a look at the Ho Attenuators. You'll be able to dime your amps and control the volume at the speaker.

[SpiderM69]

Depending upon your style, guitars and pedals, the Microbaby may not be enough headroom. I got one and sent it back, bought the SuperBaby and never looked back, with the Blue Pup 10" cab. But I wanted some versatile clean-ish at low volume. If you're playing distorted most or all of the time, a MicroBaby may be a good fit. To me, the wattage is not so much about volume, but more how quickly it distorts.

I disagree with the poster above who says an attenuator alters the tone too much. That is true at extreme settings, but a good attenuator at more moderate settings will maintain your tone pretty/quite well. I have two attenuators and really like both (THD and Weber).

What about something like the Joe Satriani Peavy, forget the name of it. It's 5 watts, built in attenuator, and I beleive about $500. Again, it depends upon the tone you're after, maybe you could fill us in a bit more.

Oh, and I've played the Nano, through a 4x10. It's fine for distorted guitar, but that's it.

[Dean Roddey]

Keep in mind that with the Emerys you can swap tubes easily. You can get a few different combinations (not just different brands of the same type but different types) and change the sound pretty significantly. I have two variations. One pushes the pre-amp hard and the power amp less so, so it breaks up early. The other pushes the power amp harder and the pre-amp less so it has a lot more head room (2 watts instead of one.)

There are other combinations to play with as well. The 2 watt combination is way louder before it breaks up. It's a bit more of a Fendery tone.

[eligit]

Originally Posted by SpiderM69

Depending upon your style, guitars and pedals, the Microbaby may not be enough headroom. I got one and sent it back, bought the SuperBaby and never looked back, with the Blue Pup 10" cab. But I wanted some versatile clean-ish at low volume. If you're playing distorted most or all of the time, a MicroBaby may be a good fit. To me, the wattage is not so much about volume, but more how quickly it distorts.

I disagree with the poster above who says an attenuator alters the tone too much. That is true at extreme settings, but a good attenuator at more moderate settings will maintain your tone pretty/quite well. I have two attenuators and really like both (THD and Weber).

Oh, and I've played the Nano, through a 4x10. It's fine for distorted guitar, but that's it.

agree about the nano. for trashy overdrive very cool toy....but just not enough of anything else.

as far as the micro vs superbaby....then you are back to the definition of "small" or "quiet". i think the super actually edges into quiet gig territory and thus goes past the volume threshold for home use (depending on your home situation).

i get a really nice clean tone from the micro...but only if the amp is turned way down and close miced and the cab is pointed right at my head. sounds great. once you switch to humbuckers and turn the amp to "5" you are FAR from clean. however i have noticed that if the amp is even as high as 75% and the guitar volume is pulled way back or you pick really really lightly it is practically back to clean.

as noted above you can also toy with tube combinations to change the exact breakup point as well.

if i went to that nice "just about to break up" area on the super....my neighbors would start complaining for sure. i would guess that if neighbors are NOT a factor....the super is 100% totally cool.

that said...the micro WANTS to push those power tubes. i was however surprised at how sweet the clean (or cleanish) could be.....you just have to readjust your idea of volume since at first the clean sounds so quiet that the brain perhaps perceives it as thin or weak...but it really is quite sweet, clear, with a subtle fatness. another factor is that the latest version of the microbaby has a more clear trebly sound (at least with the eq bypassed as i always play it)....so the clean part of the sound becomes more apparent even when it is whisper quiet...whereas the old version was a bit darker so it had less apparent clean capability.

for attenuators.....i guess it can be a subtle thing....for me i never played one that both "felt" and sounded as good as the amp without the attenuator.....so i simply have two amps....the big gig amp and the tiny microbaby for at home. one amp for each job.

ok....enough.

[JR11]

thanks for the suggestions, have looked at lots. I like the emery stuff and I have also been checkin out the bad cat mini. Still not sure. If i'm goin more high end than say a blues jr. or somethin I want to play one so I'm checkin around. Side note: goin to look at a Silvertone 1484 tommorrow. Not small but more variety. Might just have to go the attenuator route since I will hopefully have 3 bigger amps with a variety of tones, seems like the most practical route.

[FFTT]

One little amp I have yet to get my hands on is the new Zinky Supro Sahara and the
model 50 13 watts

I have heard the Zinky Blue Velvet and it was killer live, definitely loud enough
for a reasonable band.
Supro Guitars & Amps - Made in USA
Zinky® Electronics -- USA Made Guitar Amps and Accessories



I'm also reading about a 25 watt mod from Bill M for the Blues Junior.

Billm Audio » Custom 25 watt Blues Junior with 5881 (or 6V6)

[sonicdefault]

Originally Posted by JR11

Basically I have a vox AC50 combo and a Fender Deville Combo. I'm moving to a townhouse so I can't really use either of these amps cause they're just too loud. I also want something smaller for recording purposes too. My budget is anything less than 1000. I don't want to spend 1000 but if that's the best option I will wait it out. I have looked at blues Jr.'s and the tiny terrors but I'm lookin for suggestions. Needs nice smooth distortion and needs to take pedals well too. I play mostly alternative, rock styles (nothing heavy, don't need cheese grater tone) so a nice overdrive and clean would be sweet.

I love my Blues Jr LE. I think it's one of the most well-suited amps for recording. And it's strong too, with good classic crunch. Sound's like it fits perfectly for what you're needing.

In a townhouse, though... you definitely have a challenge with any amp IMO, because I don't think one can get a good sound without running somewhat hot. Or, to put it in another way... smaller amps may be able to sound good at low levels, but it still takes level that may surpass what your townhouse neighbors will tolerate. Perhaps when they're not at home...? I don't know, maybe the building you're in is quiet enough. You could always try judicious acoustic treatment too (and an amp decoupler).


-SD

[Dean Roddey]

Another thing about the Micro/Superbaby is that the EQ is purely subtractive. So if you are EQ'ing it over to the darker or brighter sides, you are going to drop volume in those cases as well.

But with judicious use of the EQ, volume, and your guitar volume (which many people too often forget about in creating good tone) you can get a really nice tone at reasonable volumes generally. Though you aren't going to want to dime even the Micro through efficient speakers in an apartment.

I built a really large iso cab (about 5 feet tall and 31x31" interior volume), so that I can drive it hard. I also have a Weber attenuator. So I have a number of choices. Sometimes it's not even necessary to actually lock down the iso cab. Just pushing the door mostly to is enough to keep the volume under control without some of the pressurization issues. Though, at 1 watt, I didn't have to create a super tightly sealed cab, so with the large size and the not too tightly sealed design, it doesn't have the problems you'd have trying to drive a 100w head in an iso enclosure.

http://www.charmedquark.com/Web2/TmpAudio/Pictures/IsoCab/IsoCab1.jpg
http://www.charmedquark.com/Web2/Tmp...ab/IsoCab3.jpg

You could fit a whole iso cab of the type you can buy pre-made, into the available air space of this home built one.

[whitepapagold]

I just bought a 1956 Princeton for exactly 1000. Its EXACTLY what you are looking for. Its my 2nd- I also have a 59.

Its a guitar and amp deal- no pedals- the ruin the interaction, but they will sound GREAT! You just lose a touch of the pick response.

I will say both are VERY different. The 59 is louder and breaks up much later- its a 5f2-a. The 56 is quieter, brighter BY FAR, and breaks up at 3- its a 5f2... The 59 waits till 6 at least.

I have no idea if thats just old reality or the circuit difference- 5f2 vs 5f2-a.

But you will NOT get anything that sounds as good as a 50s princeton.

And funny to me-

Im doing a record of solo guitar tracks- old jazz standards. The artist insists on tracking at home so he can spend as long as he likes- then I have to fix the mess. He tells me his blues deluxe and deville are better than my vintage princeton. He insists. Sonically better. Fine. So I get his first track and reamp it through my Princeton. Mic close and far then pan the mics around his original track. It sounds incredible relatively. I send him a clip of the treatment for him to OK.

The next day he is at the studio and hes looking at my neves and GMLs and EQs and asks, "what the hell did you use to get that midrange???" None of those... I replied, it was that amp.... The Princeton. It was poetic. He didn't WANT to like my amp but when he heard it UNBIASED, he freaked out.

You will NOT get that mid range from ANY amp made today. Its just not the same and I dont care why! And the sweet top cannot be had on a circuit board....

The ONLY 2 drawbacks- they always need SOMETHING when you buy them service wise... and 8 inch speaker- no bottom end. Its just not possible. Plus a touch flubby by nature. All of these are minor to the tone.

If you want to go cheap- vibro champ.

Funny I saw this thread and Ive been offline for weeks but my hands hurt from non stop playing for two days since i got the 56 back from service... Its just killing me.

[litepipe]

I love my ZVex Nano and I get plenty of tones out if it that aren't trashy. Different folks with different taste. I run it through different cabs and it sounds amazing. Used it on plenty of records. It doesn't get super clean, but records like a gem. If I want something cleaner I use a Victoria 518 which you should check out. Also depends what mic, pre and compressor you're using in your chain.

[SpiderM69]

The 65 Reissue Princeton is nice as well, if you like a blackface sound. Be careful, though, as nearly all of them have a buzz/rattle in the cabinet or baffle. It can be fixed, and occurs at ~low F#. But it's a sweet sounding amp if you can't afford or find a used Princeton you like.

It's 15 watts, so once again, if you're talking literally about apartment volumes you'll need an attenuator.

Also, you Emery owners: do you find your Microbaby/Superbaby to be a bit on the dark side? I'm using the Emery 10" cab, will have to try it again with other speakers but if I remember correctly it was dark even through another cab. I usually keep the tone control out of the circuit.

[whitepapagold]

Originally Posted by SpiderM69

The 65 Reissue Princeton is nice as well, if you like a blackface sound.

If you say that, you have never heard a good blackfaced princeton... Its just not true in any way shape or form...

These amps may be fine but they are no where near what they try to emulate. The problem is 99% of the population has never really played a great tweed or blackface fender- so they get away with these awful reissues.

So no. If you want a blackface tone, get a 60s princeton. They run 600 to 800. (not the reverb)

I really want to like the reissue amps but they just dont live up to anything they rip off.. And I like the MIJ guitars, just bought a MIJ Jaguar HH and its AWESOME especially for the money. I still prefer my strat but only for clean and OD, so Im not trying to be vintage internet guy. But with these amps, if you don't REALLY know, then yes the reissues aren't piles of butt.

[SpiderM69]

Originally Posted by whitepapagold

If you say that, you have never heard a good blackfaced princeton... Its just not true in any way shape or form...

These amps may be fine but they are no where near what they try to emulate. The problem is 99% of the population has never really played a great tweed or blackface fender- so they get away with these awful reissues.

So no. If you want a blackface tone, get a 60s princeton. They run 600 to 800. (not the reverb)

I really want to like the reissue amps but they just dont live up to anything they rip off.. And I like the MIJ guitars, just bought a MIJ Jaguar HH and its AWESOME especially for the money. I still prefer my strat but only for clean and OD, so Im not trying to be vintage internet guy. But with these amps, if you don't REALLY know, then yes the reissues aren't piles of butt.

Have you played one?

[gwailoh]

Originally Posted by JR11

Might just have to go the attenuator route since I will hopefully have 3 bigger amps with a variety of tones, seems like the most practical route.

I'm happy with the Ultimate Attenuator. It's a bit pricey but works nicely and quite transparently with any amp under 200 watts. No impedance matching issues, etc.

[Dean Roddey]

I have the Weber MiniMASS. The thing is, I could get good tones with it, actually some really killer tones, with my Microbaby and Strat (Fralin Vintage Hots.) The problem is that, once it's attenuated enough that I felt comfortable with playing it in my apartment at night, it wasn't loud enough to really get a good meaty signal into my input chain without a fairly sensitive mic jammed right up on the grill.

And of course it's not really driving the speaker at all at that level. It was fine for just jamming, but not so much for recording where you want to keep the pre-amp gain as low as is reasonable so as to get good signal to noise ratio. I'd be picking up lots of extraneous noise by the time I got the pre-amp gain up enough to get a good signal level at those heavily attenuated volumes.

That's what ultimately drove me towards the big iso box, not inability to get a good tone with the attenuator.

[Dean Roddey]

You will NOT get that mid range from ANY amp made today. Its just not the same and I dont care why! And the sweet top cannot be had on a circuit board....

You assume that all amps today use circuit boards, which isn't true of course. Most of the nice boutique amps are point to point wiring with often very simple classic circuits.

[preben]

I have recently had a LOT of joy from a Blackstar HT5 head into a 4x12 with Vintage 30's. In fact I like it so much that I bought one more (they're only £250) for a studio in Germany that I work in from time to time.

At that studio they have (amongst other things) an Engl Savage 120 which I have now retired completely in favour of the HT5. Something I ceartainly wasn't expecting.