Need help figuring out the instruments used in various motown songs

[Markeem Middle]

I'm attempting to write a motown like piece but I don't know much about the instruments. One I'm thinking about in particular is "All I do is think of You" by the Jackson 5.
All I can figure out is

Bass
Piano
Sitar
Some synth

But I would like to know whats in the string section and what horns are used.
I'm guessing a french horn is there somewhere. Also does anyone know what instrument is playing what note? I know it requires a knowledge of theory. I could figure it out if I knew the instruments.

Thanks

[ninjaneer]

there's some info in the movie 'standing in the shadows of motown'

there are clips on youtube but get the dvd if you can - great stories

[AnthonySpinali]

Standing in the Shadows of Motown is a great place to start.

I think you may be over-simplifying a bit. I took me years to develop a good enough ear and background knowledge to accurately transcribe every instrument in a song. Even with the ability it's almost essential to have a computer program to assist you. Even the best songwriters often do not write the horn or string arrangements for their own songs. For example, George Martin wrote string and horn arrangements for the Beatles. That's not to imply that you should not try...

I hope this helps and good luck!

[Markeem Middle]

I read some of the stuff about James Jamerson and read the book a while back.
Just wondering, what do you mean that most arrangers don't write string arrangements? Do they just tell them to play a certain melody? For instance, looking at thriller and credits there, they have the seawind horns so I would think that there is music that's written for them right? I'm really trying to go back to the basics of producing as far as writing. I don't think they actually wrote much music for motown if I remember the book correctly. I wouldn't need to know the note as much as I would like to know just the instruments

Going back to the Jackson 5 song, I think I do hear a trombone in the intro. There are some strings panned the left but I'm not sure what kind they are

[AnthonySpinali]

It's someone else's job to write the string arrangements. In the case of the Beatles none of the beatles wrote an oboe part. It's unlikely that the oboe player wrote his part. The fact is that the string or horn arranger will write those parts. For example, Elton John would write chords, riffs, and vocal melodies for his songs on piano only. Then His band would "jam" on those riffs, chords, and molodies respectively. This would probably include guitar, bass, drums maybe another keyboard player or a second guitar player. In my experience guitar players and drummers never have written parts handed to them. They just play the same chords or riffs as the songwriter and try to add flavor with counter-melodies (melodies different from the main melody) and "popcorn" riffs (very important to motown.) The bass player will ussually embellish the bass part of the piano (or guitar if the song was written on guitar.) That would be how the main parts of the song were developed. Elton would probably tell people not to play things he didn't like and encourage things he did like. Then a man named Bernie Taupen would write the lyrics and a man named Paul Buckmaster would arrange the strings and occasionally horns for every song. Elton may or may not have overseen this part of the process.

My point is that it's tough to do yourself and especially with Motown. The players on those great Motown records were great improvisors and they didn't need written parts to play interesting and great things. I'm willing to bet money that most motown songs were written on piano and/or guitar with a vocal melody and lyric. Everything else you hear someone else was paid to figure out. Songwriters ussually focus on hooks, riffs, melodies, chords, and lyrics. Which instrument plays each thing is up to the producers and the arrangers.

Someone like Stevie Wonder might do all of these things including playing every instrument (except horns). But that is why he's a genius and the rest of us are not.

I think you are too hung up on "What instruments are in this song?" It almost doesn't matter. When the song was written no thought was put into which horn would play which melody. You write the melodies and then try to figure out which horn can play in that musical range with a good sound.

In "All I do is think of you" live I hear bass, drums, congas, electric guitar, vocals, and tons of synth. The synth sounds are nearly all the string like sounds and the horn like sounds. I've never heard the record version so they may have used real instruments for the strings or horns but as I said earlier which ones is less important than which notes.

I hope that this is making sense. I don't want to discourage anyone...

[Markeem Middle]

Not at all. It helps alot. I'm just trying to get a better understanding since I want to start composing a little bit as a producer and do the roles that someone like Quincy does and more. Thanks for the info

[AnthonySpinali]

Producers that also do work as arrangers typically have a strong music theory background and play at least one instrument (although maybe not well). But to be a good arranger there are lots of proven rules and guidelines that are good to learn. Most of these were covered in my high school music theory class. It's not real complicated stuff but when you apply it to Jazz chords it gets complicated fast. There is no substitute for experience. I decided several years ago I wanted to start writing R&B with horns and the whole deal. I bought a program for my computer to write musical scores and it even plays back the music I write in horrible sounding midi. The program is called "Print Music." And you can create old fashioned sheet music for anything. There are other programs so I would talk to more people and see if there is something better for what you want to do.

The only problem with something like "Print Music" is that it's almost entirely outdated. Everybody uses synths and protools for music now. Unless you have tons of friends who play horns (or oodles of cash), you're not likely to find a good horn ensemble who wants to play your stuff for free. That doesn't mean it isn't fun to write and gratifying to hear. If you export sound from print music to something like protools the sound is actually very nice. Not very human but nice and you really get the picture of what you have written.

If you never intend to use a real horn section then consider something like a Triton keyboard with sequencing and just layer the parts on the keyboard. I'm not the one to explain how you would do this. In fact I have no idea.... This saves you the necesity of learning to write/read music on a staff (Unless you already know).

One more thing... If you want to learn how to compose you must first learn to transcribe. I think it is essential to learn how somebody like George Martin or any other great arranger thinks by writing out their arrangements to learn which notes go to which instrument and how the compliment the original song. Keep in mind he's starting with someone else's song so all he's trying to do is fill the space. Think of writing the song and arranging horns and strings as seperate things entirely, especially for R&B.

[Bob Olhsson]

An arranger turns a songwriter's melody line ideas into a chart that sounds great and is easy to record in a short time. Most of the best arrangers have been horn players.

They are the unsung heros of most '30s, '40s, '50s, '60s and '70s records.

That record was made in Los Angeles. I don't know very much about it except that the arranger was probably Gene Page. The AF of M. required arranging credits at that time so you can probably find out in all music guide.