The Never Ending Debate...

[Scumdog530]

Tube or Solid State?

Both have ups and downs, and from what I hear, tube usually comes out the victor.
But I am a novice musician and interested in solid state. Is there any definite advantages to solid state to keep me interested, or am I running into an inevitable wall of disappointment?

[Chaellus]

Originally Posted by Scumdog530

Tube or Solid State?

Both have ups and downs, and from what I hear, tube usually comes out the victor.
But I am a novice musician and interested in solid state. Is there any definite advantages to solid state to keep me interested, or am I running into an inevitable wall of disappointment?

thats an easy answer: BOTH!

solidstate is good at coloring the sound and tube gear can be rather clean or they can add color as well....but solid state has color done pretty good...but both are great.

[samsonic]

A more interesting question for me is : transformer or transformerless. If your doing classical music, I would say transformerless, but for any other type of music, you should use gear with great transformers (lundhal, cinemag...)

[Chaellus]

Originally Posted by samsonic

A more interesting question for me is : transformer or transformerless. If your doing classical music, I would say transformerless, but for any other type of music, you should use gear with great transformers (lundhal, cinemag...)

i always prefer transfromer and i like my ochestra music colored... like the 50's and 60's there is music from that time that i dont find rivaled now or anytime soon..dynamics of course are important but i like my sound to have some soul in it

[qsblues]

Originally Posted by Scumdog530

Tube or Solid State?

Both have ups and downs, and from what I hear, tube usually comes out the victor.
But I am a novice musician and interested in solid state. Is there any definite advantages to solid state to keep me interested, or am I running into an inevitable wall of disappointment?

The only question I have is ... what are you plugging into it?

[sweetmojo]

First, there is solid state and solid state, if you know what I mean. I own quite a few amps - we're talking about guitar amps, right? - among them some tube monsters but an 80s Randall RG100ES stands up right next to them ALL the time in shootouts. Tighter low end for sure but more dry/sterile/cold sounding (though that might be the sound you're after!). My best "chugga chugga" tone for metal band was working with at the time was a 3 channel stack of a 5150 block letter, the RG100Es, and a Bumbox Lead 1 Plexi.

[electropoet]

No question in my book. A good tube amp just sounds better than solid state...and definitely better than modeling. That said...I've always liked the Roland JC-120...but I wouldn't want that over my tube fender and vox...i might still get one eventually for that sound.

[AnthonySpinali]

It's far more complicated than "is one better than the other." there are many horrible and aweful Tube amps. There are also some great solid state amps. I think Tom Scholz of Boston played solid state and he has a very distinct tone that can only be associated with him. I believe that Billy Corgan played solid state amps and may still. He also is considered incredible by many people. His tone is distinctly his. The problem with solid state is that most amp builders seem to make them to save cost. As a result the "good" solid state amps may not be any cheaper than comparable tube amps. They are, however, cheaper to maintain.

Keep in mind that many entry level tube amps are also terrible. I like the tone of Fender Blues Jr. but other than that I can't think of a small tube amp that they sell at Guitar Center that I like. Roland Jazz Chorus is a very popular solid state amp if I'm not mistaken.

If you have a particular sound in mind then we could talk about if solid state is good or not. But in general there is nothing inherently wrong with solid state. These are just my opinions.

anthony

[theGeek]

Tubes are constant maintenance. I just dropped nearly $200 retubing my amps. Even if you take perfect care of them they are like tires on your car... they will eventually wear out.

An over driven tube amp is the definitive tone of rock and roll but a lot of solid stage gear has held its own... probably the most popular chorus tones ever are from the Roland Jazz Chorus... that, my friend, is 100% solid state if I'm not mistaken.

A lot of metal heads like the "tight" feeling of solid state. You can get the same tightness from Mesa/Boogie amps as well but will be paying a lot more. If you're a novice and are just going to be plunking around you may want to try something like the Line 6 Spider Valve... probably the most accurate marriage of tube circuitry and modern digital and solid state technology. Its not perfect but its great for beginners.

[kafka]

I wasn't aware there was a debate - I thought tubes had won that one.

I have all tube amps now, and the vast majority have been tubes. But, I'm not willing to say that tube amps are categorically better, or to write off transistor amps. The average tube amp is probably better than the average transistor amp, but that makes no difference. You're not buying an average of amps - you're buying the one that suits you. One thing is for sure - transistor amps weigh a lot less, and that's important in that it makes it easier to play out. So, how's that for some non-advice?

[octatonic]

Tubes- by a long, long, long way if you are talking about sound quality.

[ddp]

Originally Posted by octatonic

Tubes- by a long, long, long way if you are talking about sound quality.

If you are talking guitar amps it is tubes all the way.

What is a good solid state guitar amp? I never tried one.

Yes they take care. Yes they have to be retubed. But they sound great.

[projectMalamute]

Almost always tubes for guitar amps. There exists a handful of good transistor amps, but they are generally only useful for pretty specific and freakish sounds(Sunn Beta Lead for a certain noisy kind of heavy, Roland JC120 for pretending to be Pat Metheny, Traynor TS-** makes a good ugly bass preamp).

[theGeek]

I again go back to the Roland Jazz Chorus as a good clean amp. This amp has been used on countless albums. True, if you are looking for anything other than super clean then tube is the way to go.

[dualtone]

Originally Posted by theGeek

Tubes are constant maintenance. I just dropped nearly $200 retubing my amps. Even if you take perfect care of them they are like tires on your car... they will eventually wear out.

An over driven tube amp is the definitive tone of rock and roll but a lot of solid stage gear has held its own... probably the most popular chorus tones ever are from the Roland Jazz Chorus... that, my friend, is 100% solid state if I'm not mistaken.

A lot of metal heads like the "tight" feeling of solid state. You can get the same tightness from Mesa/Boogie amps as well but will be paying a lot more. If you're a novice and are just going to be plunking around you may want to try something like the Line 6 Spider Valve... probably the most accurate marriage of tube circuitry and modern digital and solid state technology. Its not perfect but its great for beginners.

Hmmm...in my experience good tube amps require very little maintenance. Quality pre-amp tubes should last for years. Crappy ones....well...crap out. I've found Ruby and JJ to be less reliable. Power tubes won't last as long, but depending on what amp and how you play, could last years as well. There's obviously a valid argument to be made for solid state. Albert King played out of an Acoustic amp for years!

[kafka]

Originally Posted by dualtone

Hmmm...in my experience good tube amps require very little maintenance. Quality pre-amp tubes should last for years. Crappy ones....well...crap out. I've found Ruby and JJ to be less reliable. Power tubes won't last as long, but depending on what amp and how you play, could last years as well. There's obviously a valid argument to be made for solid state. Albert King played out of an Acoustic amp for years!

I don't know about all this tube changing that people are doing. We used to never change our tubes, and they'd be 10, 20 years old. Of course, people are hitting them harder these days, so maybe that's it. True, when I started going to matched tubes about 15 years ago, some of my amps never sounded better. I've never had a set that I felt was worn out after only a couple of years. But, like I said, maybe people are hitting them harder than I do.

[Jonboy79]

Originally Posted by kafka

I don't know about all this tube changing that people are doing. We used to never change our tubes, and they'd be 10, 20 years old. Of course, people are hitting them harder these days, so maybe that's it. True, when I started going to matched tubes about 15 years ago, some of my amps never sounded better. I've never had a set that I felt was worn out after only a couple of years. But, like I said, maybe people are hitting them harder than I do.

Well it could be that your power tubes crapped out so gradually that you never noticed it. A friend of mine has a Randall Rm100 and played it for a good two year without changing tubes. I heard it when he first got it and about a month before he changed tubes. To him there was no difference in tone, to me it was night and day. It went from great to crap from the first to the last time I had heard it. I put his new tubes in for him and he literally said, "my God, I didn't remember that it sounded this good" and he learned his lesson about changing tubes.

[theGeek]

I play out nearly every weekend and various practices through the week... my power tubes only last about a year before they sound really dead. I have had the same preamp tubes for a while. Some could reasonably last indefinitely if the amp is well taken care of.

[AnthonySpinali]

I think they don't make tubes like they used to. Maybe there's no truth to that but I've heard the same thing from others.

[Jonboy79]

Originally Posted by Joe Porto

As a beginner, you may find that a SS modeling amp will be more fun to play, especially if you are learning many different cover songs.

A tube amp will not be as versatile, but IMO, can sound and FEEL better to play.

Of course there is the option of both:

.:: Fender®.com ::.

I had the pleasure of playing this amp recently, and will say that for it's price, it's a heck of a good sounding amp. This would make a great first amp for any serious budding musician. Sounds fantastic, loud enough for gigs, and incredibly versatile.

This is very true. I don't know how many kids I've had tell me why a Spider III is so much better than any tube amp I can name. "But it can do so much different stuff for so cheap". The only answer I usually give back is, "eventually you'll understand what I'm talking about"(when it comes to why tube amps are tonally superior).

[theGeek]

In the end the average listener won't notice the difference. Its mostly for your own enjoyment. Don't play a tube amp just because people give you crap about your SS gear.

If you find a SS tone that works with what YOU are trying to do then run with it. If you like it then screw everyone else.

[CrankyRayHanky]

"It's far more complicated than "is one better than the other."

No it's not- tube amps are alive, solid state sounds awful

[porieux]

For guitar amps, tubes all the way. Why use anything else?
The sound is better, and the feel is better. IMHO of course.

[Jonboy79]

Originally Posted by porieux

For guitar amps, tubes all the way. Why use anything else?
The sound is better, and the feel is better. IMHO of course.

This is how I've always felt. If you need to versatility of some of the modeling solidstate amp then get a multi effects pedal. I've even found distortion pedals to sound worlds better through tube amps.

[rhodesholar]

That's was a joke. I am valve guy all the way. As I posted on one of the other forums the valves make or break your amp. You may have to try several sets of pre's and powers to get the tone you like. I hear people complaining of the tone of their amps but I don't hear them painstakingly researching and trying various valves. I am aware the power valves need to be biased in case that was going to come up.

When you revalve work with your amp tech and play the various valves, your paying the guy anyway. It's amazing how different they will sound.

I am an accomplished guitar player and I have played both solid state and valve and valve amps just have a better "feel" to them. Plus I like being able to valve my amp to my taste, which in my opinion makes it my signature.

[AnthonySpinali]

I think the "feel" that everyone keeps talking about is the way the amp responds. When you hit a chord the tube amp hits you back with a much more natural intensity. Solid state seems artificial in that sense. Not to say that the artificial sound of solid state is bad. As I said earlier on this thread there are many guitarists with platinum records in their living rooms who never put a tube amp on their recordings. If you want something industrial or uncomfortably unnatural, solid state may be far more capable of creating that. Trent Reznor comes to mind. I don't think he uses amps at all on his records any more. He uses "Amp Farm" for everything. It's some sort of computer emulator.

[audiovisceral]

Originally Posted by AnthonySpinali

I believe that Billy Corgan played solid state amps and may still. He also is considered incredible by many people. His tone is distinctly his.

not exactly.

siamese dream was a jcm800 tube
mcis was a jmp tube pre with mesa tube power amp, the jcm800 again, and a vox ac30 tube
zeitgest was a diezel herbert tube with uberschall tube


so all tubes that i'm aware of.

solid state's just cheaper, not generally better.

[rhodesholar]

TA Audio Topics - EE Times Interview with John Murphy on Tubes vs. Solid-State

[AnthonySpinali]

Originally Posted by rhodesholar

TA Audio Topics - EE Times Interview with John Murphy on Tubes vs. Solid-State

Excellent article and totally true in my experience. Most tube amps are crap too. There are just a few great amps that have that something that makes you want more. I'm a firm believer that solid state amps will continue to get better and tube amps will stay roughly the same. Having said that I will probably always play tube amps.