deluxe vs twin reverb

mattianlaseppia · 26th January 2009

i've heard a lot about them, but i would like to understand which can be the better choice for me..

i love the bassman '59.. is the only fender i tried, i've tried also a bassman silverface head but with a bad cab.. so i haven't understood exactly how it sound.. yes i've also heard a bassman 135 with a 4x12 cab.. and was the huger sound i ever heard.. but is also too big, so i don't consider it (i haven't the space in my room)

i'm a bass player, but sometimes i play guitar, i really like the bassman 59 also on bass guitar.. my favorite clean tone.

i've heard a twin reverb of a my friend via skype.. and sounded wonderful!! even with a green russian big muff on the bass wasn't muddy.. and was very detailed even via skype.

so i think i will buy a twin reverb to use it with guitar, but also with synths and to pass some tracks through.. i really like the reverb feature etc.

but than i think.. i really don't need all this power, i mean i'm in an bedroom studio and i want a really clean with a lot!! of head room.. but not so much power and the twin as no master volume.

on the other hand people says that deluxe has not enough headroom..

so what i would like to know is.. it's true that the deluxe has not enough headroom? i really don't want crunchy sounds.. i want CLEAN but with tube vibe.

or is the deluxe a twin reverb with less power?

i'm thinking more about a twin.. seems very solid.. especially if i plan to use it also with a bass guitar or a synth.. so maybe i can mod it and put a switch to lower the volume or a additional master volume pot..

or if i leave 2 tubes.. can i damage it in the long time?

thanks!

swankdoc · 27th January 2009

Vibrolux.
thats where the vibe is at.

mattianlaseppia · 27th January 2009

why? explain better the sound differences

gwailoh · 27th January 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattianlaseppia

or is the deluxe a twin reverb with less power

No, while both being Fender-sounding amps, they're very different.

The Twin Reverb is about clean headroom. Its output tubes are 6L6s and at 100 watts, pushing it into output tube distortion would break every window for twenty miles. It's a great amp if you want a clean Fender sound and you want it loud. Think twangy country Telecasters in a hockey arena without mic'ing the amp.

The Deluxe is about smooth to gritty 6V6 output tube distortion at club volume. Many people consider the tweed Deluxe the ultimate blues club amp because it does that gritty grindy overdriven thing at small club volume. The blackface and silverface Deluxes have more clean headroom, but they're still awesome when pushed into output tube overload.

If you're playing in a bedroom at very low volume, a Deluxe will be more than enough. If you think you might ever play out and you want loud, loud, loud clean, a used silverface Twin Reverb, which has a master volume, might be the thing. To my mind, the difference to think about is if you ever want to get output tube distortion, or not. If yes, go with the Deluxe.

Hope this helps!

mattianlaseppia · 27th January 2009

i'm in a bedroom and i want to use it for tracking and sometimes live, but i really want a CLEAN, no sort of distortion.

i'm thinking about the twin reissue, not the silverface, just because of reliability and price (because if i find one cheap i need also to spend a lot of money to make it work great or to repair it.. and here in italy the price of a silverface is around the price of a new twin reissue.. so i'm thinking about a used reissue that goes cheaper)

what i don't like is the preamp distortion. i want to push it hard to compress the sound in a natural way without distorting, and i don't need too much volume.

the point is that i think the deluxe preamp breaks up sooner.. maybe the output not because of the low volume, but the pre yes.

while in the twin i think i have much more headroom in the preamp.. or i can push harder the output to achieve more compression without distortion.

i'm right?

gwailoh · 27th January 2009

I'm not expert on the circuits, can only tell you what my ears tell me. I hear no preamp distortion at all. On the Deluxe, turn up the volume and you get output tube distortion. On the non-master-volume Twin, turn up the volume and you hurt small animals and cause low-flying airplanes to crash. Then eventually you hear output tube distortion. I think. I don't actually know because I'm afraid to try.

I'm surprised to learn that the silverface Twin is so expensive there. Here, they lack respect compared to the blackface.

ScottTunes · 27th January 2009

The best Fender amp for you, in my opinion, would be a non-master volume silver face Bassman head, with an open back, single 12" cab for guitar, and closed back for bass (your choice of single 12 or 15, 2x10 or 4x10). Output is 40 watts into a 4 ohm load (such s the original 2x12" speakers). You could run the Bassman head into a single 12" 8ohm speaker for a bit less volume, and still have it clean. It would still be VERY loud when cranked up, but at lower volumes gives good solid clean sounds. Just my opinion.

mattianlaseppia · 27th January 2009

thanks to all!

crossbow · 27th January 2009

why limit yourself to those two extremes of the fender spectrum? a super reverb will have more headroom than a deluxe, but won't be deafeningly loud, like the twin. i suspect this is what another poster was getting at by suggesting the vibrolux. look for a fender in the 40 watt range. twins can sound great, but they are loud, heavy, and difficult to sell.

mattianlaseppia · 27th January 2009

the vibrolux has more headroom? why the super reverb has more headroom?

lord_bunny · 27th January 2009

the Deluxe has plenty of volume on the normal input before getting gritty. the trick for getting a little more dirt before getting loud is plugging into the 2nd input thats -6db quieter.

I did a country record where the guitars ran through a deluxe and a twin. at reasonable volumes that were loud enough to keep up with drums, they sounded nearly identical, and i certainlly couldn't blindly tell the difference.

the deluxe is a little cheaper, a lot lighter and if you want clean you can get clean with it, it's just that it's easier to break-up with it than the others.

mattianlaseppia · 27th January 2009

sorry but we are talking about hot road deluxe or blckface deluxe reissue?

swankdoc · 27th January 2009

Also, dont necessarily get stuck on the this or that fender. There's plenty of nice sounding tube amps.
For example, I have a Trace Elliot Velocette (now made by Gibson) that has clean headroom galore. Plenty loud, plenty of character.
If you got money, look at the victoria line of amps, or the kendrick line of amps. They have some absolute gems. All of which are in the 12Ax7-6L6 grabby range.

I said the vibrolux because its a nice middle ground between the Twin (heavy as a mother, loud as one too) and a Deluxe (I agree, less tight clean headroom).
The vibrolux has lots of 'spank' ; growls when you want it to, purrs when you need it to. Its lighter and more mobile, I record with it typically at a volume 3 and gig with it almost never past 4. So its got lots of room.
I would not however recommend the reissue vibrolux. The reissue Twins and Deluxes I thought were decent replicas, the vibrolux reissue is poo. Grab a 70's silver face, and if you got some extra $, send it to Kendrick for an overhaul.
Will be the last amp you'll ever let go of.

johnwayne · 27th January 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwailoh

I'm not expert on the circuits, can only tell you what my ears tell me. I hear no preamp distortion at all. On the Deluxe, turn up the volume and you get output tube distortion. On the non-master-volume Twin, turn up the volume and you hurt small animals and cause low-flying airplanes to crash. Then eventually you hear output tube distortion. I think. I don't actually know because I'm afraid to try.

I'm surprised to learn that the silverface Twin is so expensive there. Here, they lack respect compared to the blackface.

LOL! This is true. The twin is a loud beast. It sounds amazing clean, and needs pedals to break up. If you turn it up all the way, you better be in another room or prepare for ungodly loudness. It really is that loud.

I've taken 2 power tubes out and it is still very loud.

brianaustinny · 30th January 2009

I think that the Twin is going to be way too loud for bedroom studio use. I'd look at the 65 Deluxe Reverb Reissue.

kind · 30th January 2009

What about a Princeton?

eligit · 30th January 2009

a twin in a bedroom?

not a good idea. a really bad idea.

as mentioned above....the best (and only) practical use of a twin is un-miked in a giant arena....for that nice "just starting to break up" sound.

40 watts or preferably much less is bedroom territory.

i have a lovely hand built 18 watt amp that is about twice as loud as is practical in a bedroom. i can get a nice clear warm clean (ie just starting to compress nicely) sound in a medium sized club without hardly micing it (just put the amp on a chair).....only turned up to about 1/3rd+. that said the speaker is pretty efficient.

crossbow · 30th January 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattianlaseppia

sorry but we are talking about hot road deluxe or blckface deluxe reissue?

i was talking about a black or silverface deluxe reverb. i'm not a fan of the hot rod deluxe. i don't have any experience with the blackface deluxe reissue.

popvulture · 31st January 2009

I've played a Twin for years, and it's a great amp. It takes effects really well. Like everybody's already said though, it's loud as all hell. It's too loud for an apartment on 2, but like most tube amps it doesn't fully come into its own until it's turned up even more. It really will blast the roof off of your place.

With people recommending Vibroluxes, etc in this thread, this might sound like blasphemy, but I'd consider getting something like a Hotrod DeVille if you're thinking about playing and recording in a bedroom. Despite the fact that it's a new amp and won't get you the classic clean Twin tone, it'll get close enough and will behave better at lower volumes. Plus, if you ever wanna crank it a bit, you've always got the option to turn up the volume for gain and choke it down with the master.

That's just my two cents. If you've got the opportunity to crank your amp, get something classic. If you wanna play at lower volumes and have a mix of tones, I'd consider getting something newer with a master volume.

Oh and PS, don't EVER get a Silverface Twin with master volume. Millions of other posts before me to back me up on this one.

gwailoh · 31st January 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by popvulture

don't EVER get a Silverface Twin with master volume. Millions of other posts before me to back me up on this one.

I have two. They're fine. I had one modded to blackface spec, left the other one stock. Both amps sound totally great.

The silverface can be a good bargain because of this reputation. Sometimes cheaper to buy the silverface, mod it to blackface spec if you don't like it, leave it alone if you do.

Always the odd man out...

popvulture · 1st February 2009

I have a Silverface, but it's a '68 non master model. It sounds great... the master volume models always sounded pretty lacking to me, but if you can mod them to make them work, then fine by me. Whatever works. I'd imagine the mod involves removing the master volume?

richiepalooza · 1st February 2009

OK Here's the answer. Get a Silverface Deluxe Reverb circa '68-72. It'll be cheaper than a Blackface and oughta sound just as good. A little different perhaps but good. If you need more headroom have the power tubes changed to 6L6GB's and you'll have headroom to 10. If that's too much headroom, remove V1 and you'll get a tad more grind.

Don't get a reissue. Save your money and get the real thing.

chrisgraff · 3rd February 2009

As mentioned before, a Twin is way too loud for a bedroom; kind of like racing a Shelby Cobra up & down your driveway.

Deluxe Reverb is the way to go. The folks at stu-daddyamps.com make a GREAT recreation.

If you think you need more headroom, ask them to build one using 6L6's.

at4033 · 3rd February 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by eligit

a twin in a bedroom? not a good idea. a really bad idea. .

With all due respect, I could not disagree more.

While to a significant degree it does depend on what you are looking for, I've never played an amp that sounds richer, more full or better-balanced at apartment levels that a Twin - if you are going for a clean sound and use pedals.

By contrast, my Vox AC15HTV is unusably thin and brittle at very low levels, as was the Super-Sonic I sold. The volume knobs on those amps basically go from off to quite loud.

By contrast, the Twin sounds superb at any volume. Those honkin' big transformers (and volume knobs offer a very smooth taper) give me beefy sound at any volume.

The same can be said of a good Deluxe Reverb, but to my ears the sound is a bit narrower and a bit softer (which has its uses, and is a matter of taste). That said, I've not heard a Deluxe deliver piano-like bass like a Twin does.

One last note to mention: I have a 1983 Strat Elite that has long been my favorite guitar. It has never sounded right through any of my amps. It sounds perfect through a Twin.

eligit · 3rd February 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by at4033

With all due respect, I could not disagree more.

While to a significant degree it does depend on what you are looking for, I've never played an amp that sounds richer, more full or better-balanced at apartment levels that a Twin - if you are going for a clean sound and use pedals.

By contrast, my Vox AC15HTV is unusably thin and brittle at very low levels, as was the Super-Sonic I sold. The volume knobs on those amps basically go from off to quite loud.

By contrast, the Twin sounds superb at any volume. Those honkin' big transformers (and volume knobs offer a very smooth taper) give me beefy sound at any volume.

The same can be said of a good Deluxe Reverb, but to my ears the sound is a bit narrower and a bit softer (which has its uses, and is a matter of taste). That said, I've not heard a Deluxe deliver piano-like bass like a Twin does.

One last note to mention: I have a 1983 Strat Elite that has long been my favorite guitar. It has never sounded right through any of my amps. It sounds perfect through a Twin.

i have to say....the most satisfying overdrive is always PARTIALLY a result of output tubes working.

no pedal can duplicate that vibe. some can try....but it is never the same as the real deal. i know many people will start bringing up THIS pedal or THAT pedal....but i have played TONS of them....many sound cool....none sound like a good tube amp when it is working hard in the power section. honestly i have gotten much more satisfying sounds recording a well maintained BF princeton reverb than any twin. as long as you know how to play it, set it, and mic it....that is one great bedroom amp.

some would argue that even a really satisfying clean sound requires that the power tubes be doing at least some lifting. i suppose that one could be debated.

so unless your bedroom is located in a bomb shelter 50 feet underground....you are going to be missing out trying to get a twin to give you juicy clean and juicy overdrive. to even GET to juicy clean will soon attract some pissed off neighbors. then again....you can debate what you like in a clean sound...and you will get answers all over the map.

that said...i quite like the clean sound of a twin lower on the dial. i do not hate it at all....i just prefer a clean sound with more juice....and a overdrive that involves the tubes as much as a pedal.

i also feel silly playing an amp every day i cannot turn above "3"....but that is mostly a psychological thing. ha!

ScottTunes · 9th February 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by richiepalooza

OK Here's the answer. Get a Silverface Deluxe Reverb circa '68-72. It'll be cheaper than a Blackface and oughta sound just as good. A little different perhaps but good. If you need more headroom have the power tubes changed to 6L6GB's and you'll have headroom to 10. If that's too much headroom, remove V1 and you'll get a tad more grind.

Don't get a reissue. Save your money and get the real thing.

+1! This is a great answer!

Additionally, I'd advise against newer Fenders with circuit boards. Repairs and mods will always be easier with the hand wired amps as opposed to the circuit board amps. And ALL amps will eventually need to see your amp tech. So that's be another resource you should NOT overlook.

That said, the best selling Fender at the moment is the newer Hot Rod Deluxe - 40 watts through a single 12" spkr, with circuit board. Nice cleans (rivals Twin in bedroom settings!), and takes kindly to pedals. Amp output distortion isn't so great though. That requires transformer saturation and output tube distortion. The newer amps just can't get there, especially when compared to the vintage amps!

juniorspecial · 9th February 2009

Look, if you're playing in your bedroom, and you're playing by yourself--with no drummer around--any amp will have plenty of clean power to you to record a nice clean guitar sound. Any amp. Even a champ.

If you don't turn the amp volume up very high, you'll get plenty of clean sound, and it'll be loud enough to record into a microphone.

If you want a great amp for recording clean Fender sounds in your bedroom, the Fender Princeton Recording amp is great. I've got one, and it records beautifully! Clean, dirty--whatever you want.

26th January 2009	#1
mattianlaseppia Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 792 Thread Starter	deluxe vs twin reverb i've heard a lot about them, but i would like to understand which can be the better choice for me.. i love the bassman '59.. is the only fender i tried, i've tried also a bassman silverface head but with a bad cab.. so i haven't understood exactly how it sound.. yes i've also heard a bassman 135 with a 4x12 cab.. and was the huger sound i ever heard.. but is also too big, so i don't consider it (i haven't the space in my room) i'm a bass player, but sometimes i play guitar, i really like the bassman 59 also on bass guitar.. my favorite clean tone. i've heard a twin reverb of a my friend via skype.. and sounded wonderful!! even with a green russian big muff on the bass wasn't muddy.. and was very detailed even via skype. so i think i will buy a twin reverb to use it with guitar, but also with synths and to pass some tracks through.. i really like the reverb feature etc. but than i think.. i really don't need all this power, i mean i'm in an bedroom studio and i want a really clean with a lot!! of head room.. but not so much power and the twin as no master volume. on the other hand people says that deluxe has not enough headroom.. so what i would like to know is.. it's true that the deluxe has not enough headroom? i really don't want crunchy sounds.. i want CLEAN but with tube vibe. or is the deluxe a twin reverb with less power? i'm thinking more about a twin.. seems very solid.. especially if i plan to use it also with a bass guitar or a synth.. so maybe i can mod it and put a switch to lower the volume or a additional master volume pot.. or if i leave 2 tubes.. can i damage it in the long time? thanks!

27th January 2009	#11
lord_bunny Lives for gear Joined: Sep 2006 Location: Sarnia, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,280	the Deluxe has plenty of volume on the normal input before getting gritty. the trick for getting a little more dirt before getting loud is plugging into the 2nd input thats -6db quieter. I did a country record where the guitars ran through a deluxe and a twin. at reasonable volumes that were loud enough to keep up with drums, they sounded nearly identical, and i certainlly couldn't blindly tell the difference. the deluxe is a little cheaper, a lot lighter and if you want clean you can get clean with it, it's just that it's easier to break-up with it than the others. __________________ Adam Miner: Songwriter, producer, mixer, studio owner www.adamminer.com

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27th January 2009	#2
swankdoc Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,135	Vibrolux. thats where the vibe is at.

27th January 2009	#6
gwailoh Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 812	I'm not expert on the circuits, can only tell you what my ears tell me. I hear no preamp distortion at all. On the Deluxe, turn up the volume and you get output tube distortion. On the non-master-volume Twin, turn up the volume and you hurt small animals and cause low-flying airplanes to crash. Then eventually you hear output tube distortion. I think. I don't actually know because I'm afraid to try. I'm surprised to learn that the silverface Twin is so expensive there. Here, they lack respect compared to the blackface.

27th January 2009	#7
ScottTunes Gear addict Joined: May 2007 Location: Left Coast (El Aye) Posts: 403	The best Fender amp for you, in my opinion, would be a non-master volume silver face Bassman head, with an open back, single 12" cab for guitar, and closed back for bass (your choice of single 12 or 15, 2x10 or 4x10). Output is 40 watts into a 4 ohm load (such s the original 2x12" speakers). You could run the Bassman head into a single 12" 8ohm speaker for a bit less volume, and still have it clean. It would still be VERY loud when cranked up, but at lower volumes gives good solid clean sounds. Just my opinion.

27th January 2009	#9
crossbow Gear interested Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 11	why limit yourself to those two extremes of the fender spectrum? a super reverb will have more headroom than a deluxe, but won't be deafeningly loud, like the twin. i suspect this is what another poster was getting at by suggesting the vibrolux. look for a fender in the 40 watt range. twins can sound great, but they are loud, heavy, and difficult to sell.

30th January 2009	#15
brianaustinny Gear Head Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 32	I think that the Twin is going to be way too loud for bedroom studio use. I'd look at the 65 Deluxe Reverb Reissue.

30th January 2009	#16
kind Gear interested Joined: May 2007 Posts: 25	What about a Princeton?

31st January 2009	#19
popvulture Gear maniac Joined: May 2008 Location: Austin Posts: 269	I've played a Twin for years, and it's a great amp. It takes effects really well. Like everybody's already said though, it's loud as all hell. It's too loud for an apartment on 2, but like most tube amps it doesn't fully come into its own until it's turned up even more. It really will blast the roof off of your place. With people recommending Vibroluxes, etc in this thread, this might sound like blasphemy, but I'd consider getting something like a Hotrod DeVille if you're thinking about playing and recording in a bedroom. Despite the fact that it's a new amp and won't get you the classic clean Twin tone, it'll get close enough and will behave better at lower volumes. Plus, if you ever wanna crank it a bit, you've always got the option to turn up the volume for gain and choke it down with the master. That's just my two cents. If you've got the opportunity to crank your amp, get something classic. If you wanna play at lower volumes and have a mix of tones, I'd consider getting something newer with a master volume. Oh and PS, don't EVER get a Silverface Twin with master volume. Millions of other posts before me to back me up on this one.

1st February 2009	#21
popvulture Gear maniac Joined: May 2008 Location: Austin Posts: 269	I have a Silverface, but it's a '68 non master model. It sounds great... the master volume models always sounded pretty lacking to me, but if you can mod them to make them work, then fine by me. Whatever works. I'd imagine the mod involves removing the master volume?

1st February 2009	#22
richiepalooza Gear addict Joined: Aug 2007 Location: san antonio,texas Posts: 418	OK Here's the answer. Get a Silverface Deluxe Reverb circa '68-72. It'll be cheaper than a Blackface and oughta sound just as good. A little different perhaps but good. If you need more headroom have the power tubes changed to 6L6GB's and you'll have headroom to 10. If that's too much headroom, remove V1 and you'll get a tad more grind. Don't get a reissue. Save your money and get the real thing.

3rd February 2009	#23
chrisgraff Gear addict Joined: Aug 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 411	As mentioned before, a Twin is way too loud for a bedroom; kind of like racing a Shelby Cobra up & down your driveway. Deluxe Reverb is the way to go. The folks at stu-daddyamps.com make a GREAT recreation. If you think you need more headroom, ask them to build one using 6L6's.

9th February 2009	#27
juniorspecial Gear Head Joined: Jan 2005 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 51	Look, if you're playing in your bedroom, and you're playing by yourself--with no drummer around--any amp will have plenty of clean power to you to record a nice clean guitar sound. Any amp. Even a champ. If you don't turn the amp volume up very high, you'll get plenty of clean sound, and it'll be loud enough to record into a microphone. If you want a great amp for recording clean Fender sounds in your bedroom, the Fender Princeton Recording amp is great. I've got one, and it records beautifully! Clean, dirty--whatever you want.