boogie vs. bogner

[Pgraf88]

Im looking at getting either a mesa dual/triple or a Bogner uberschall, I play some semi-hi gain stuff metalcore is what the kids call it these days and were wondeing yalls thoughts these amps. I know the uberschall was Bogners answer to mesa's rectifers(just what i heard). would it be wise to save some cash and go with a mesa? or could i pull off what i want with even a bogner ecstacy 101?

What are yalls thoughts

[ryangeller]

rengob <--------

[Dimes]

It depends really. Do you plan on gigging with the amp? I've got 2 Mesa Triple Recs and I like the amp a lot. However I do run some stuff in front of it (overdrive) to get a bit more gain out of it. That's my taste though, to have a bit more gain.

Also even though I've got these amps I do plan on getting a Bogner soon too, just because I like to have a few different tones and they are awesome. Also I play out a lot and don't like the idea of dragging a Bogner out to a ton of gigs. Not to say it couldn't withstand the abuse, I just wouldn't want to subject it to any.

Don't forget, you should budget money in for a good cab if you don't already have one. I know a lot of guys who have really nice amps and they still don't sound as good as they could because they are playing through a bogus cab.

[Jax]

I think the Uberschall whoops any Mesa when it comes to grinding, tight low end. No other amp I've heard can touch the Uber for that. The drawback to the Uber is a lack of versatility - you get the tight grind, a good but sterile clean, and that's it. The Uber is probably overkill if you're doing "semi-hi-gain" stuff.

I think the Shiva is a much cooler amp, and reasonably versatile. Check the Bogner site, they have very good clips of every amp they make.

The dual and triple rectifier Boogie sound is worn out and tired by now. Get one only if you want to sound like everyone else. Since you don't need a death metal amp, you can look at other Boogies like the Stiletto or Lone Star Special which enter Marshall territory, but with very good cleans.

[richiepalooza]

Bogner, Bogner, Bogner.

[ewegogetemtiger]

Having owned meas/boogie amps since 1990 and more recently got into Bogner...I'd say Bogner any day. I don't think it's even close.

YMMV

[Energie]

Bogner

Mesa's can get some nice tones, but are over-rated imo.

[Mastering101]

I own a mesa 2/90 power amp and i love this amp when you hit it hard with my ENGL 580 preamp or some distortion pedal.

I also own 4 bogner amps and they are great if you like that tone which
is big,fat and harmonically saturated.

I never liked the Mesa heads they are too dark sounding for me but that sounds good to others....You have to hear them both side by side really.

The Bogners are easy to mix they sit well in a mix...

[Mastering101]

Originally Posted by Pgraf88

Im looking at getting either a mesa dual/triple or a Bogner uberschall, I play some semi-hi gain stuff metalcore is what the kids call it these days and were wondeing yalls thoughts these amps. I know the uberschall was Bogners answer to mesa's rectifers(just what i heard). would it be wise to save some cash and go with a mesa? or could i pull off what i want with even a bogner ecstacy 101?

What are yalls thoughts

you can get high gain out of a Bogner Ecstasy easy if you want more you strap on a overdrive pedal...i like the custom Bogner Ecstasy....The Ecstasy is so versatile

[Pgraf88]

From the sound clips on the Bogner website i really dig the uberschall very tight and aggressive, but ive been in a session where a guy had and ecstasy(it rulled) and said it is a jack of all trades for the most part, but he told me that it wasnt to good for hi-gain applications(but there is the pedal option) The sound im going for is like The Chariot/Converge type stuff

and Effctsnut you have 4 bogners? wow, im not worthy, im not worthy

[Mastering101]

Originally Posted by Pgraf88

From the sound clips on the Bogner website i really dig the uberschall very tight and aggressive, but ive been in a session where a guy had and ecstasy(it rulled) and said it is a jack of all trades for the most part, but he told me that it wasnt to good for hi-gain applications(but there is the pedal option) The sound im going for is like The Chariot/Converge type stuff

and Effctsnut you have 4 bogners? wow, im not worthy, im not worthy

LOL...I think useing pedals in front of an Amp is king anyway...If you get an Uber
you have to get the Uber cab for sure to get that deep heavy distortion...other wise you'll blow up any other cab

[kafka]

I've been playing Boogie Marks for around 25 years now, and I'll always have a couple, but they don't do what you do. The Rectifier models have a nice grind to them, but they've always left me flat after that. Bogners are just more exciting amps for that kind of high gain stuff.

[Jonboy79]

My vote is also for Bogner. I've worked with both extensively and own some Mesa amps but I probably would never buy a Rec, Uberschall for sure though.

[the_Chris]

If you have the extra money for Bogner, you really can't go wrong. As an owner of 2 Bogner Shivas, I can tell you they probably aren't the right amps for metal (I've found them to do modern rock pretty good, but heavier stuff requires pedals and the best tones always seem to come from the amp tones alone from my experience). I think the Uberschall would work very well for more technical metal like Converge. You want a chugging, high gain , take no prisoners gain channel - it has it bone stock. Some folks claim the cleans are better on the Uberschall than the XTC as well (but the XTC is a more versatile amp). I think the XTC has more than enough gain on the red channel, but the Uberschall was made specifically for heavier styles, so I'd imagine that's the way to go.

[84K]

A Mesa is a Ford Mustang and a Bogner is a Lamborghini Murcielago in comparison.

[GYang]

Originally Posted by 84K

A Mesa is a Ford Mustang and a Bogner is a Lamborghini Murcielago in comparison.

Than ENGL 670SE should be Bugatti Veyron
Killer amp, killer cleans (YES !!!!) in metal amp that sounds great in all 4 channels.
For more money and less versatility try Bruno Super Lead (even slightly better than 670 in couple of sounds, but greatly limited in versatility).

[tomdarude]

bogner....or


VHT Deliverance 120

[84K]

still, none of the mentioned can touch a JCM 800 with the right mods done by the right guy.

P.S. I listened to the sound clips of the ENGL 670 SE and it does not impress me at all. The Fireball sounds like it has more detail and less white noise.
The 670 sounds like a triple recti by Mesa, which makes my ears puke.

[theGeek]

Originally Posted by 84K

still, none of the mentioned can touch a JCM 800 with the right mods done by the right guy.

You don't even need mods on a JCM 800. Throw a modded Keeley DS-1 or some other high end distortion pedal and you've got one of the best setups around.

[Pgraf88]

there is a used JCM 800 at my local guitar center, i saw it on my way out yesterday and didn't have a chance to play it, I'll have to go back sometime soon and try it out. But everything I've read about the uberschall and what ive heard really gets me excited about this amp. And i like that it is a two channel amp

[Mastering101]

Originally Posted by 84K

still, none of the mentioned can touch a JCM 800 with the right mods done by the right guy.

P.S. I listened to the sound clips of the ENGL 670 SE and it does not impress me at all. The Fireball sounds like it has more detail and less white noise.
The 670 sounds like a triple recti by Mesa, which makes my ears puke.

Well you know you cant go by hearing clips on a sitetutt...some of the bogner clips suck....I have Engl 580 guitar preamp and it is the desert island guitar preamp for me..I changed the tubes and i have some of the best tone heard from
beautiful shimmering cleans to chunky blues and more metal gain you could ever need..

I use it with a Mesa 6l6 2/90 power amp and its a great combo..I just bought a Randall rt2/50 power amp to try also....you have to hear ENGL in person.

[Mastering101]

Originally Posted by GYang

Than ENGL 670SE should be Bugatti Veyron
Killer amp, killer cleans (YES !!!!) in metal amp that sounds great in all 4 channels.
For more money and less versatility try Bruno Super Lead (even slightly better than 670 in couple of sounds, but greatly limited in versatility).

here use this

[Mastering101]

With all the great Modern Amplifiers out there i never felt the need to buy an jcm 800..I bought a Marshall tube head last year and only kept it for 3 days..I wanted to take a hammer to it..

[theGeek]

Originally Posted by Pgraf88

there is a used JCM 800 at my local guitar center, i saw it on my way out yesterday and didn't have a chance to play it, I'll have to go back sometime soon and try it out. But everything I've read about the uberschall and what ive heard really gets me excited about this amp. And i like that it is a two channel amp

Do yourself a favor and take a look at that JCM800!!!

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by Pgraf88

there is a used JCM 800 at my local guitar center, i saw it on my way out yesterday and didn't have a chance to play it, I'll have to go back sometime soon and try it out. But everything I've read about the uberschall and what ive heard really gets me excited about this amp. And i like that it is a two channel amp

You should try each amp in person.

I have a Mesa Dual Rectifier and a Bogner 101B.

They are completely different. I think the Bogner is more refined and it has almost no sharp edges. (there are some on the clean channel with the gain all the way up, I don't think that sounds pretty, this has been 'fixed' in the Classic version).

Also a lot of people comment that the Bogner has sortof a 'blanket over the speaker' sound, which might be true, but what is also true is that you can put your ears (or microphone) right on the speaker axis and still have a tone which is not harsh instead of using some Weber beam blockers...

But if after a while playing on the Bogner switch on the Mesa, I can still appreciate what it does. Like I said, it's totally different.

[DRC]

Ive played Recto and an Uberschall once. They both grind but I think the top end on the Mesa was harsh....at least through V30s. I owned a Triaxis/2:90 combo forever and thought that that was all I would ever need. But it always needed subtle work with a parametric after the pre to make it perfect. The Bogner XTC was perfect dry. I dont think I ever even messes with reverbs in the loop. It was just right. If you have hot enough ceramic pups you should have more than enough gain. If not, stick a pedal (or a Triaxis) in the parallel loop and blend in a bit more saturation.

Wish I still had both of them. Good luck.

[DRC]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

Also a lot of people comment that the Bogner has sort of a 'blanket over the speaker' sound, which might be true...

I've heard that too. But it records so well coming of the speaker. I think some people are just used to the top end on Mesas from hearing them on every rock radio release from 1995 to 2000+. The tone controls are a bit more subtle on the XTC which I loved. Matter of taste I guess. The thing is he (the OP) can probably get pretty close to the Uberschall sound with a recto and a good parametric in a serial loop. The sag might not be the same, but the low/high end can be tightened up.

[Mastering101]

I dont agree with the 'blanket over the speaker' phenomenon...
Bogners sound RAW with a really nice top end...

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by effectsnut

I dont agree with the 'blanket over the speaker' phenomenon...
Bogners sound RAW with a really nice top end...

I don't think there's a blanket over the speaker either, Reinhold Bogner just doesn't seem to like harsh frequencies, which is why those amps have a very unique sonic signature.

I agree about the top, but I don't think the overall sound can be classified as raw, however when cranked the amps will definately bark.

Raw IMHO is a cranked Hiwatt, Plexi Marshall, Soldano or even a Rectifier...

[Mastering101]

I think you'll agree that the word Raw is subjective..It would be like me describing the Marshall tone as Yakking Tone. To me it has a Raw tone which i love...
Lately myself I have been getting into Power Amps and using pedal distortion and overdrive pedals. Right now I have the Mesa 2/90 and the Randall rt2-50 with all kinds of tone pedals