Marshall JCM 800 vs. 900

[frangels]

Hello everyone,

Simple question I Hope. What is the difference between the Marshall JCM 800 and the JCM 900 with 100w hi-gain dual reverb? I looked through previous post but couldn't find anything on the matter. Is the only difference a second channel? or no?

Thanks

[allencollins]

There is a HUGE difference in tone. 90% of the 900's shipped with 5881 power tubes. Which is basically a 6L6WGB.

The 800's primarily have El34/6ca7 tubes. Although I have a factory original 800 from the early 80's that shipped with 6550's. Very dark aggressive sound that I don't like.

I like the crunch sound in the el34 JCM800 though. But I do like the clean sound in the 900.

El34 is more classic English tone like the Who or Zep. The 800 is sort of gainy especially the 2205/2210
Very 80's metal sound to those. Though the gtr player in Rage against the machine used and 800
at least on the first couple records.

900 really has a unique sound. Not at all warm like an 800
but not as muddy and sloppy as a modern boogie. I personally hate the 900 distorted sound.

[Farview]

Originally Posted by allencollins

There is a HUGE difference in tone. 90% of the 900's shipped with 5881 power tubes. Which is basically a 6L6WGB.

The 800's primarily have El34/6ca7 tubes. Although I have a factory original 800 from the early 80's that shipped with 6550's. Very dark aggressive sound that I don't like.

I like the crunch sound in the el34 JCM800 though. But I do like the clean sound in the 900.

El34 is more classic English tone like the Who or Zep. The 800 is sort of gainy especially the 2205/2210
Very 80's metal sound to those. Though the gtr player in Rage against the machine used and 800
at least on the first couple records.

900 really has a unique sound. Not at all warm like an 800
but not as muddy and sloppy as a modern boogie. I personally hate the 900 distorted sound.

+1 Very fair assesment. I personally like the 800 with the 6550's, but I'm strange that way.

[macleod]

AFAIK the distortion on the 900 is from a chip, like a distortion pedal, rather then from the tubes like on the 800.

k

[Jonboy79]

Originally Posted by macleod

AFAIK the distortion on the 900 is from a chip, like a distortion pedal, rather then from the tubes like on the 800.

k

I'm not sure that's totally correct. I believe if the power tubes are pushed then there's no way around getting distortion from the tubes. Just like cranking a low wattage single knob tube amp all the way. I'd be surprised if you're totally correct.

[kid sergio]

I'm pretty sure the 900 gets help from a chip for its high gain. This goes for all models of the 900. the 800 basically has four different models. the 2204 (50w) and 2203 (100w) do not have any sort of transistor in it and produce their distortion the old fashioned way. the 2205 (50w) and 2210 (100w) have reverb and also produce a more high gain distortion with the help of transistors. this makes the 2203/2204 a little more desirable, imho. i like the 2204, of which i have one with el34's, because you can crank the master while plugged into the low sensitivity input and you can get some gorgeous overdrive tones.

the distortion on 900s just sound a little fake to my ears, kind of the start of marshall's fall from grace, if you will.

[84K]

As far as tone goes...

A 1982 vertical input JCM 800, in my opinion, is the greatest Marshall amp ever made. The JCM 900, in my opinion, is the lowest point in the history of Marshall.

[frangels]

thanks guys, but if i were to replace the tubes within a 900 with those found in an 800, would that adjust the tone to some degree??

[Farview]

Originally Posted by frangels

thanks guys, but if i were to replace the tubes within a 900 with those found in an 800, would that adjust the tone to some degree??

Looking at the schematics, the 900 is an 800 with the gain chip. It uses the same tubes and the same power circuit.

I have heard that they changed transformer suppliers sometime in the 80's, but I'm not sure how true that is.


You can get a usable tone out of a 900, but you need to really back off on the treble and presence. Unfortunately, you still end up with a fuzzy-ish distortion instead of a grainy-ish distortion.

[frangels]

Originally Posted by Farview

Looking at the schematics, the 900 is an 800 with the gain chip. It uses the same tubes and the same power circuit.

I have heard that they changed transformer suppliers sometime in the 80's, but I'm not sure how true that is.


You can get a usable tone out of a 900, but you need to really back off on the treble and presence. Unfortunately, you still end up with a fuzzy-ish distortion instead of a grainy-ish distortion.

Thanks, but for my set up, i use a tube screamer, with a BBE sonic maximixer, but you think if i lay of the treble a lil and the prescence too, ill get somewhat of a better distortion?

[Farview]

Originally Posted by frangels

Thanks, but for my set up, i use a tube screamer, with a BBE sonic maximixer, but you think if i lay of the treble a lil and the prescence too, ill get somewhat of a better distortion?

The last thing you need with a JCM 900 is a BBE. The 900 has, for all intents and purposes, a tube screamer built in.

You would get a much better sound without the BBE.

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by 84K

As far as tone goes...

A 1982 vertical input JCM 800, in my opinion, is the greatest Marshall amp ever made. The JCM 900, in my opinion, is the lowest point in the history of Marshall.

lower than jcm dsl 2000 ?

[84K]

Originally Posted by allencollins

lower than jcm dsl 2000 ?

the DSL is a pretty cool amp. that low end control is sick. Mercury makes a replacement transformer that takes it to another level too. OTB it is pretty cool though. The TSL is pretty weak, but the Dual Super Lead is nice.

[frangels]

Originally Posted by Farview

The last thing you need with a JCM 900 is a BBE. The 900 has, for all intents and purposes, a tube screamer built in.

You would get a much better sound without the BBE.

ohhhh may i ask why I would get a much better sound with out the BBE, because its been a while since i last used it without it, but i remember it sounding better with it. I'll give it another try though, with all the suggestions I've gotten.

[Farview]

Originally Posted by frangels

ohhhh may i ask why I would get a much better sound with out the BBE, because its been a while since i last used it without it, but i remember it sounding better with it. I'll give it another try though, with all the suggestions I've gotten.

The BBE has its place, it can really help with a muddy sounding amp. But I've never heard anyone complain that a JCM900 was muddy. The big complaint is that they are thin and screechy. A BBE just adds more thin and sceech. It also accentuates the buzzy high end that everyone hates about the 900 over the 800.

Take the BBE completely out of the loop when you try it, I swear it seems like the 'bypass' is actually muddier than if you wire around it.

You might want to take it out for a week or so, just to let your ears decompress. It's very easy to get used to the brightness of the BBE and everything will sound 'dull' in comparison.

[frangels]

Originally Posted by Farview

The BBE has its place, it can really help with a muddy sounding amp. But I've never heard anyone complain that a JCM900 was muddy. The big complaint is that they are thin and screechy. A BBE just adds more thin and sceech. It also accentuates the buzzy high end that everyone hates about the 900 over the 800.

Take the BBE completely out of the loop when you try it, I swear it seems like the 'bypass' is actually muddier than if you wire around it.

You might want to take it out for a week or so, just to let your ears decompress. It's very easy to get used to the brightness of the BBE and everything will sound 'dull' in comparison.

yeah yeah, I just was messing around with the tone, and I took out the BBE, and your right i think, it just adds to the thinness and the buzz, basicily it sounded like had the treble and presence cranked to 11, but your right, but Im good have another listen for the next few days or soo.

Thank you for all you help!


P.S....I'm currently in the process of deciding which set of pick-ups to install into my guitar. The guitar i use is a FERNANDES - Monterey Elite. But i cant decide which, I'm mainly thinking between EMG's 81/85 or Seymour Duncans Pearly Gates. I play metal with that guitar only, along the lines of Lamb of God, Darkest Hour, black dahlia murder, at the gates, AC/DC. Which do you think would preform better?


thank you!

[Farview]

Originally Posted by frangels

yeah yeah, I just was messing around with the tone, and I took out the BBE, and your right i think, it just adds to the thinness and the buzz, basicily it sounded like had the treble and presence cranked to 11, but your right, but Im good have another listen for the next few days or soo.

Thank you for all you help!


P.S....I'm currently in the process of deciding which set of pick-ups to install into my guitar. The guitar i use is a FERNANDES - Monterey Elite. But i cant decide which, I'm mainly thinking between EMG's 81/85 or Seymour Duncans Pearly Gates. I play metal with that guitar only, along the lines of Lamb of God, Darkest Hour, black dahlia murder, at the gates, AC/DC. Which do you think would preform better?


thank you!

The duncans will be thicker, the EMG's will be thinner, but have more articulation.

I would go for the Duncans, but I really dislike EMG's so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

[Farview]

You seem unhappy with your sound. What you need to do is figure out what it is about your sound that you don't like. Then get rid of stuff that contibutes to the problem.

For example:

If you sound is too thin, dump the BBE and stay away from EMGs.

If your sound is too muddy, get some EMGs. If that isn't enough, get a BBE.

[fuzzface777]

THe 800 would kill the 900 everytime.... The 800 can be modded easily to be have as much gain as a Jubilee or more still with tone the 900 would never have.

[RiF]

My 2 cents for the JCM 800. I had a JCM 900 back in the days and I have been totally unhappy with it. My bandmate had an old JCM 800 (vertical inputs, pre Diode-clipping era) which I always prefered big time. The tone of the 900 is thin and fizzy and gets covered by the direct, tight and ripping tone of the 800. I sold it and bought a 2205 JCM 800 (the newer ones from the mid 80's) which I have and play up to today. My advise: Stay away from the 900's if you can, the older JCM 800's are great and the newer ones (2205, 2210) are good, too.

[frangels]

Originally Posted by Farview

You seem unhappy with your sound. What you need to do is figure out what it is about your sound that you don't like. Then get rid of stuff that contibutes to the problem.

For example:

If you sound is too thin, dump the BBE and stay away from EMGs.

If your sound is too muddy, get some EMGs. If that isn't enough, get a BBE.

No im not entirely unhappy with my sound, I'm just trying to get the best tone. I play thrash metal, and play shows with way to many death metal and deathcore bands, that crank the distortion and bass so damn much, that you cant even make out what there playing. And i hate that, the whole point of an instrument is so that it can be heard clearly in my opinion.

oh and the reason that im thinking of changing my pickups, is becuase as of right now my neck pickup is battery operated, (fernandes monterey elite). And a im sick of replacing the batteries, and b. i think other pickups with only help with my tone.

[Farview]

Well, obviously, EMG's will be the wrong choice if you don't want to mess with batteries.

[84K]

EMG 80 series active pickups successfully suck out everything I like about the tone of a guitar.

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by 84K

EMG 80 series active pickups successfully suck out everything I like about the tone of a guitar.

nice, you ain't kiddin'

[frangels]

well my question is, would the Seymour duncan Pearly gates be a great pickup for a metal tone?


Thanks for all the help guys

[Jonboy79]

Originally Posted by frangels

well my question is, would the Seymour duncan Pearly gates be a great pickup for a metal tone?


Thanks for all the help guys

Well they don't suck like EMG's and yes they will work for metal but whether you'll like them or not is completely up to you. You might love them, you might hate them. I can say though, I've never been dissatisfied with Duncans, I'm a big fan.

[84K]

Originally Posted by frangels

well my question is, would the Seymour duncan Pearly gates be a great pickup for a metal tone?


Thanks for all the help guys

If you like mid scooped buzzy top and thick bass like bottom, then the EMG's are the sound.
If you want the guitar to have mids, Duncan makes some decent pickups. My favorites are Jim Rolph's.


IMO Most metal guys get boring predictable tones. I like mids in the heavy electric guitars.... ya know, those frequencies it was made for.