New Guitar-dead harmonics

Mikeren · 30th January 2008, 08:38 PM

I recently got a new American stat. and noticed something weird.

My 5th fret harmonics are dead (relatively) on all strings when the neck pickup is selected. All other harmonics are fine, and all other pickup selections work fine for the 5th fret.

I don't think my pickups are high enough to dampen anything, and the strings are new.

Has anyone else run across this? Seems very strange. Any ideas what might be causing this? Any help would be appreciated...

Thanks,

MR

mdme_sadie · 30th January 2008, 09:12 PM

Check the intonation is correct, I've never had the experience of harmonics not working with one pickup, but the potential is there if the harmonic is pure enough, what could happen is simply that the pickup would be at a node, a point where due to the wave form, length and movement the string to either side is vibrating but not a the point of the pickup itself so much. Do you hear the harmonic itself on the string even though the pickup isn't getting it?

Does this pickup behave normally in the other positions? Or is there a noticeable drop in volume with it? Is it possibly wired out of phase? Is it a lot further from the strings than the other pickups?

octatonic · 30th January 2008, 09:13 PM

Take a pic of the pickup height taken from the side and a pic of the nut with strings in it and without and I can make a pretty good guess.

Jim

allencollins · 30th January 2008, 11:24 PM

intonation probably

Normally you would hit the harmonic right above the fret, right?
Try slide a tiny bit to the left and right of the fret (slightly)
If you get the harmonic it's the intonation.

If you don't get the harmonic I have no clue. Is the neck bowed
or back bowed? that can cause problems.

Dead strings? That can do it. This happens on all frets?

3waytie4last · 31st January 2008, 01:03 AM

Fretting harmonics divide the string's vibration into different waves. The 5th fret harmonic divides the string into four waves with a dead spot approximately where the neck pickup of a strat or tele is, therefore your harmonics are dead there. This dead spot coincides almost perfectly with the position of a tele neck pickup, so it's almost impossible to get 5th fret harmonics on a tele, on a strat, the pickup position is slightly different, so you will get a slight harmonic.

There is likely nothing wrong with your guitar.

cheers.

84K · 31st January 2008, 02:02 PM

intonation

Mikeren · 1st February 2008, 10:26 PM

Hey all,

Thanks for all the replies, you guys are the best.

Intonation is right on. The harmonics ring true acoustically, as well. Pups work fine.

I'm not able to post pictures of the pickup height and nut until tomorrow (I checked the Pup heigth against Fender specs. and they are even a bit low).

I'm pretty sure 3waytie and mdme_sadie are right about the pickup being on a node. A quick measurement will probably confirm that for me.

Any other strat players run into this? I'm loving this quitar despite the oddity.

Thanks again for all your help!

MR

bassie12 · 1st February 2008, 10:57 PM

If your harmonics all ring true using the bridge pickup (the one that is least likely to fall physically under a "null" point in the string's vibrational nodes when harmonics are struck), then the problem most likely lies with the position of the neck pickup. I don't have a guitar on hand at the moment, but the fifth fret is sort of the same distance from the nut as the neck p/u is from the bridge. This would place the neck p/u at about the null point of vibration in the string when ringing a harmonic at the fifth fret...pesky physics......that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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30th January 2008, 08:38 PM	#1
Mikeren Gear interested Join Date: May 2006 Location: Mid USA Posts: 28	New Guitar-dead harmonics I recently got a new American stat. and noticed something weird. My 5th fret harmonics are dead (relatively) on all strings when the neck pickup is selected. All other harmonics are fine, and all other pickup selections work fine for the 5th fret. I don't think my pickups are high enough to dampen anything, and the strings are new. Has anyone else run across this? Seems very strange. Any ideas what might be causing this? Any help would be appreciated... Thanks, MR

30th January 2008, 09:13 PM	#3
octatonic Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: London Posts: 4,772	Take a pic of the pickup height taken from the side and a pic of the nut with strings in it and without and I can make a pretty good guess. Jim __________________ Regards, Jim Richmond "I don't go to mythical places with strange men." Douglas Adams

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30th January 2008, 09:12 PM	#2
mdme_sadie Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 399	Check the intonation is correct, I've never had the experience of harmonics not working with one pickup, but the potential is there if the harmonic is pure enough, what could happen is simply that the pickup would be at a node, a point where due to the wave form, length and movement the string to either side is vibrating but not a the point of the pickup itself so much. Do you hear the harmonic itself on the string even though the pickup isn't getting it? Does this pickup behave normally in the other positions? Or is there a noticeable drop in volume with it? Is it possibly wired out of phase? Is it a lot further from the strings than the other pickups?

30th January 2008, 11:24 PM	#4
allencollins Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Manchester by the Sea, MA Posts: 3,579	intonation probably Normally you would hit the harmonic right above the fret, right? Try slide a tiny bit to the left and right of the fret (slightly) If you get the harmonic it's the intonation. If you don't get the harmonic I have no clue. Is the neck bowed or back bowed? that can cause problems. Dead strings? That can do it. This happens on all frets?

31st January 2008, 01:03 AM	#5
3waytie4last Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 46	Fretting harmonics divide the string's vibration into different waves. The 5th fret harmonic divides the string into four waves with a dead spot approximately where the neck pickup of a strat or tele is, therefore your harmonics are dead there. This dead spot coincides almost perfectly with the position of a tele neck pickup, so it's almost impossible to get 5th fret harmonics on a tele, on a strat, the pickup position is slightly different, so you will get a slight harmonic. There is likely nothing wrong with your guitar. cheers.

31st January 2008, 02:02 PM	#6
84K Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: right coast Posts: 3,767	intonation

1st February 2008, 10:26 PM	#7
Mikeren Gear interested Join Date: May 2006 Location: Mid USA Posts: 28	Hey all, Thanks for all the replies, you guys are the best. Intonation is right on. The harmonics ring true acoustically, as well. Pups work fine. I'm not able to post pictures of the pickup height and nut until tomorrow (I checked the Pup heigth against Fender specs. and they are even a bit low). I'm pretty sure 3waytie and mdme_sadie are right about the pickup being on a node. A quick measurement will probably confirm that for me. Any other strat players run into this? I'm loving this quitar despite the oddity. Thanks again for all your help! MR

1st February 2008, 10:57 PM	#8
bassie12 Gear Head Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 38	If your harmonics all ring true using the bridge pickup (the one that is least likely to fall physically under a "null" point in the string's vibrational nodes when harmonics are struck), then the problem most likely lies with the position of the neck pickup. I don't have a guitar on hand at the moment, but the fifth fret is sort of the same distance from the nut as the neck p/u is from the bridge. This would place the neck p/u at about the null point of vibration in the string when ringing a harmonic at the fifth fret...pesky physics......that's my story and I'm sticking to it.