-10db makes the guitar sound week.

[Jay-]

I hope I don't get flamed, this is such a basic question, but I'm getting lost this morning.

I am zero expert at recording electric guitar and D.I it sounds FULL but missing the amp tone.

This is an ongoing issue for me that has been going on for 6 months.
The guitar tone is wonderful until I play it back then its canned sounding.

Please let me list my gear for my recording.

1. fender deville 2X12
2. Strat with noiseless pups
3. M-audio projectmix with the built in pre amps.
4. AT 3035.
5. several TS-808 devices.
All sounds GREAT before the mic.

Now with the mic on flat 0db I get massive clipping.
With the mic on -10db the sound is low like the guitar is off stage or coming from a mason jar.

I have so many variables I'm just burning up daylight.

Should I put the mic closer to the cab?
Turn the mixer from input 5 to 3 and reduce the clipping?

The amp is plenty loud.
Don't suggest any new equipment, I'm saving up for my 5.1 rig.

harrowin skies-01.mp3 - Dedicated Web Hosting Service

Thanks in advance.

[john.sawyer]

How are you setting up the mic now?

You can try close micing the cabinet but turning the mic so it is off axis and it should be able to handle higher SPL without clipping.

I hate to suggest any new equipment but are you willing to consider picking up a SM57? They are relatively inexpensive (typically around $79) and have been responsible for countless electric guitar recordings.

[John Suitcase]

You might try bringing the amp level down, until you can put the mic in fairly close, maybe 12" off the grill, without distorting the mic. I usually like condensers on small practice type amps, or as a room mic, but prefer a dynamic on larger louder amps.

Try experimenting with the mic in different orientations, and positions. It's just a process of experimentation. You should be able to get a good tone with what you have, I would expect.

[Jay-]

It looks slightly off access about 4 inches from the top speaker.
Any hard fast rules about -10/0db? Ill look into the mic idea.

[nosebleedaudio]

The AT3035 is rated at 148db for 1%, that's pretty good.
You could be clipping the pre.
Turn down the amp and get the mic about 1 foot away and see if its cleaner.
I would put the amp on a riser to get it off the floor at least a foot so when you mic it a little further away you wont have reflections off the floor that are almost as loud as the direct...
Just something to consider...

[john.sawyer]

It looks like you might be setting the mic up right at the edge of the speaker (although I can't really be sure form the pic) If you are there could very possibly be some cone/surround distortion there that you are picking up, I personally tend to like the sound closer to the center to of the speaker. I suggest you start there and then begin angeling the mic off axis to compensate for any distortion. you could definitely increase your off-axis angle from the pics.

[jamsmith]

I certainly agree with the SM57 solution. That ideal setup is 57 off axis right at the cone and a condensor a foot or two or more away. I don't know what else you are recording, but if it is just eletric guitar, you would be better off selling the AT and getting the 57.

FYI: -6 dB is the equivalent of half the volume. -12 is a quarter, so -10 is a lot of cut. This is speaking electronically. Acountically, -10 is twice the distance (half the volume) but that is greatly over simplified because acoustics in a room is far more complex

[nosebleedaudio]

Originally Posted by jamsmith

I certainly agree with the SM57 solution. That ideal setup is 57 off axis right at the cone and a condensor a foot or two or more away. I don't know what else you are recording, but if it is just eletric guitar, you would be better off selling the AT and getting the 57.

FYI: -6 dB is the equivalent of half the volume. -12 is a quarter, so -10 is a lot of cut. This is speaking electronically. Acountically, -10 is twice the distance (half the volume) but that is greatly over simplified because acoustics in a room is far more complex

If you double the distance is more like 6db less.

[jamsmith]

Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio

If you double the distance is more like 6db less.

That is just a number used to make it easier on people to deal with and to bring it into line with electronic measurements. The 10dB mark came from extensive psychoacoustic testing in a controlled environent. The actual amount is dependented the enviroment. In a room with a lot of reflections, it can get pretty close to 6dB. Acoustics is a far more complex science than electronics. It probably the most misunderstood and at the same time, may be the most important. One of the reasons why mastering has to be done is that recording studio control rooms, despite the care, design, and treatments, still rarely have proper acoustics for accurate mixing.

Perhaps I should have said psychoacoustically. Which is even more complex because the you have correlate a very large sample of subjective data to reach any level of accuracy. And the problems are compounded by the fact that human dynamic range changes for different frequences and for different starting volumes.

You have for forgive me. My head has completely been in acoustics theory lately. I shouldn't have even brought it up in this forum.

[nosebleedaudio]

Well the fact is it would be a 6db loss, all other things being equal. If you measured it with a SPL meter.
The perceived twice as loud is a different thing and some say that 10db "sounds" twice as loud.

[jamsmith]

Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio

Well the fact is it would be a 6db loss, all other things being equal. If you measured it with a SPL meter.
The perceived twice as loud is a different thing and some say that 10db "sounds" twice as loud.

Try this sometime. Put x number of watts into speaker y and measure the SPL as distance z1,z3, and z3 in an anechoic chamber. Then do the same in a tiled locker room. I guarantee you will get a different SPL readings.

[nosebleedaudio]

Originally Posted by jamsmith

Try this sometime. Put x number of watts into speaker y and measure the SPL as distance z1,z3, and z3 in an anechoic chamber. Then do the same in a tiled locker room. I guarantee you will get a different SPL readings.

Again this is a different thing as well, you have room modes that will produce higher or lower level at a certain distance and certain frequencies.
What IM referring to is the basic laws of physics.
And if you have one speaker that is say producing 90db at 5 feet, you turn on the other speaker that is 5 feet away and also 90db you will have a 6db increase in level, all things being the same.

[CrankyRayHanky]

when micing a guitar cab, put it on -10 every time; I'm told it helps to protect the mic

you should be able to get a sound- but the problem may lie with your built-in preamp that offers insufficient gain. Try putting the mic right up on the grill; if lack of volume still remains you're screwed in your current setup

a 57 is low cost solution for shure