Guitar for $2500 and under

[infopimpster]

Ed let me play an old Rickenbacker... no problems. Seemed to give off a "contact high" and have an aggresive approach, but I had no issues with him... now I'm thinking twice.

[AMIEL]

Originally Posted by allencollins

For under 2500 I'd get a nice Gibson custom shop Les Paul from the mid 90's As far as Fenders go I wouldn't pay more than $400. There is very little difference in quality from a $2000 strat and a $400 one. Much of it is marketing hype and Tom foolery..... Yet many suckers get tricked and nver know they did




I guess you are not guitar player. In general, Again In general....... you are paying for quality of components and workmanship. Add up the common components of a guitar. The components on a Les Paul alone will run you $350
a strat would be about $100

Have you ever painted a guitar with Nitro? Do you have any concept of how long that takes? Why do you think cheazball companies like Fender and Epiphone use polyester and not Nitro Cellulose? That alone will probably be the difference of $400 in labor costs. The cost of the paint and prep material is probably the difference of $50 to $100.

Did you ever look at the cost of wood? The cheezball material fender uses like asian maples, alders ashes are like $50 a slab they use multiple peices of wood an plywood like laminates. Gibson uses one piece bodies of south american mahaogany and AAA figured bookmatched maple from the US.

Fender uses a cheezy bolt on neck. gibson set necks are glued in. That's addtional labor. Binding? Have you ever routed a body for binding?ever glued binding in? ever scraped the color laquer off or masked off binding with a razor or tape before shooting the clear coat? Do you have any idea how long that takes? I guess not.

What about inlaying the pearl or even celuloid fretboard inlays? Routing the fretboard trapazoids? Ever think how long that takes? No inlay on a fender but tons of it on Gibson. Ever think how long it takes to scrape the laquer of a gibson logo after shooting the peg board black laquer? It takes a while.

Ever think about the time and care it takes to buff by HAND a guitar shot with a vintage thin nitro finish? as opposed to buffing a poly coat with a robot?

Routings? How many rountings on a Strat or a tele? 2? 1 In that middle of the body (where half the tone was by the way). And another rout where the other half of the tone WAS before it was impaled by 4 trusty bolts. (ok three on some late 70's models). How many routs on a Paul... 5? Lot more labor invloved.

Fretboard binding on a les paul ? ever think how long that takes to glue and cut around each fret? All this shit is done
by hand. Fender uses robotics and has 1/20 of the detail and dressings of a les paul. Why do you think 90% of the fender guitars play like crap from the factory. They don't even level the frets. Gibson does. That's another $100 in labor cost for a level and dress and buff with compound.

You can argue till you are blue in the face whether a Gibson sounds better than a Fender but the one thing you can't argue is the difference in labor and quality components. Les Pauls have more expensive and higher quality components. The woods cost more. The level of detail is on a different level that a fender. Binding, inlay, finish work
construction are all 10 times more labor intensive on a Gibson than a fender.

Sure you can argue you like the sound of one versus the other but with design and craftsmanship there is no argument. A Gibson cost $2500 because it is a work of art. Not two laminated pieces of chinese wood held together by bolts and painted with the same material that your trash bags are made out of.

you get what you pay for

Alen !! can u make me a GTR?

the only Fenders I like are Teles

[bafonso]

Originally Posted by gergface21

I'm curious what electric guitar you guys would get for $2500 or less

What car would you get for 50k or less ?

This question makes no sense. A guitar has its own sound and it's the mix of player, sound and guitar that gets recorded. Why do you believe guitar players - including myself - always try different guitars from different makers, etc? Because we need to play it before we know how good it is. Also, every guitar is different. the small differences do exist.

I just got a SA2000 (yammie) and it plays and feels wonderful. Probably won't be craving a 335 any time soon. Maybe until I try a 60's one...

I don't know how anyone clueless about guitars wants to spend 2.5k on one but it's the world we live in now I guess.

[jamsmith]

Originally Posted by allencollins

Guitars sound the way they do cuz of many factors...
The wood and the shape/construcion of the gtr is 75% of the sound.

You left out the most important factor on how guitars sound the way they do.. the player. Eddie Van Halen sound EXACTLY like Eddie Van Halen no matter what he is playing.

[gergface21]

Originally Posted by bafonso

What car would you get for 50k or less ?

This question makes no sense. A guitar has its own sound and it's the mix of player, sound and guitar that gets recorded. Why do you believe guitar players - including myself - always try different guitars from different makers, etc? Because we need to play it before we know how good it is. Also, every guitar is different. the small differences do exist.

I just got a SA2000 (yammie) and it plays and feels wonderful. Probably won't be craving a 335 any time soon. Maybe until I try a 60's one...

I don't know how anyone clueless about guitars wants to spend 2.5k on one but it's the world we live in now I guess.

No shit guitars have their own sound and its a mix of the player :-) Thank you Mr Obvious

[dylansmale]

For recording i would choose a Gibson Digital hands down. Its 2500 exactly too i think. and you can record a track for each separate string with its exclusive digital hum bucker next to the 490's. it has a really nice case, a outboard box that does all the single string transitions and a cable that goes from that to your interface recording a single session with 6 tracks(1 for each string). Comes with Sonar 6 software which i don't use. But this is definitely a guitarists/experimental guitarist/ recording guitarist/engineer dream.

[FFTT]

Just a few examples of what you can get in that budget range.

I'd be all over the first one if I had the funds

http://www.gbase.com/Stores/Gear/Gea...x?Item=1760375

http://www.gbase.com/Stores/Gear/Gea...x?Item=1790668

http://www.gbase.com/Stores/Gear/Gea...x?Item=1758265

The early 90's American Fenders were also far more accurate off the shelf
than anything you can find these days at double the price.

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by jamsmith

You left out the most important factor on how guitars sound the way they do.. the player. Eddie Van Halen sound EXACTLY like Eddie Van Halen no matter what he is playing.

Well that goes without saying!!!!
but thx for reminding me.

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by AMIEL

Alen !! can u make me a GTR?

the only Fenders I like are Teles

O.K. the official Allen Collins telecaster........

officially called the CollinsCaster!!! AKA the TELEBLASTER!!!!!!!!!!!

Solid 1 piece Korina set neck. Neck is routed and inlayed with a strip of solid purple heart wood for optimal strength and tension control. CollinsCaster neck tenon routed to a tolerance of .0001 for ultra tight set neck joint. Eastern rock maple fretboard Neck Fitted with custom Allen Collins solid silver ultra thin fretwire. Neck fretted to perfection and leveled and dressed by hand by a factory certified CollinsCaster fret technician. The Collins Caster is custom fitted with Burmese imperial jade fret markers.

Neck is fitted with original 'Allen Collins' CollinsCaster 24k Gold edition machine heads with custom 20:1 gear ratio. yes 20:1 !!!!!!! These tuners have a lead core for ultimate stability and a patented mass-spring-damper tuning assembly for the ultimate tuning experience.

A solid 1 piece quartersawn korina body finished with an ultra thin coat of Behlen nitrocellulose lacquer buffed to perfection with special edition Allen Collins buffing compounds. And topped off by a thin coat of Collins Caster edition Imperial Hand Glaze.

Guitar routed for two Lindy Fralin humbuckers wired for coil tapping with gold solder and shielded with real silver wire. These are Allen Collins Wizard edition pickups. Hand wound by Allen Collins!!!! Yes you read it correctly. Hand wound by me!!!

Custom Allen CollinsCaster lightweight Aluminum bridge custom made in the Allen Collins casting factory north of Jacksonville Florida.

The CollinsCaster is fitted with a limited edition bone nut hand made by Allen from unfossilized Tyrannosaurus bone* excavated from the Black Hills of North Dakota by Allen's archaeological unit.

Guitar is strung with high performance Allen Collins ACXL steel strings wound to perfection. This unique ACXL string design features annealed high speed steel implanted with Negative ions to provide the worlds first unbreakable guitar string. Yes unbreakable guitar string!!!!! Negative high voltage pulses in the range from zero to 5 kV have been applied to the samples during the deposition of the ACXL string mfg. process . The effect of the energy of the ions on the coating structure makes the ACXL not only unbreakable, but the string will never lose tone!!! The ACXL strings NEVER NEED TO BE REPLACED!!!!! They are guaranteed by A.C. FOR your natural LIFE**

This elegant hand crafted guitar is protected by a limited edition form fitted flight case with protective titanium exterior for ultimate protection without breaking your back!!!. The case is also fitted with a concealed GPS tracking device to assure when this guitar is stolen it will be recovered within minutes.


* - These bone nuts are subject to availability. If Tyrannosaurus bone is unavailable it will be substituted with either Triceratops or Brontosaurus
excavated unfossilized bone.

** - Lifetime guarantee is transferable upon the Collins Caster owners death.

[seaneldon]

Originally Posted by dylansmale

For recording i would choose a Gibson Digital hands down. Its 2500 exactly too i think. and you can record a track for each separate string with its exclusive digital hum bucker next to the 490's blah blah blah

The above is proof that the world is over.

[the_Chris]

I've found firsthand that price doesn't necessarily mean the guitar is going to be amazing. I've owned some supremely well built guitars, but they didn't have the mojo unplugged, a few examples include a Collings 290, Don Grosh Bent Top Custom, and various custom shop Gibsons (an SG Custom and 2 LP DCs).

Honestly, playing tons of standard production stuff led me to the few keepers I have now. I have no desire to mess around with many more guitars because of the versatility I have with my selection. All 3 of my guitars cost $1500 or less initially (I spent some extra money for pickups for 2 of them and 1 guitar needed a new nut and electronics).

My current lineup is a PRS McCarty (Wolfetone A5 Marshallheads), Fender '62 AVRI Strat, and a Gibson Firebird V (Lollar FB-mini in the bridge, Lollar 50's wind neck P90 soapbar).

I recommend just playing a ton of mid-high priced guitars until you find one that speaks to you. I've found budget guitars feel cheap and once you get higher in price, you find the guitars are simply a lot better feeling (at that point it comes down to playing the guitars unplugged and finding the pieces that resonate with you - no pricetag can take the place of trying a guitar in person first).

[barryjohns]

I've got a Les Paul Standard, Les Paul Classic, Stevie Ray Vaughn Strat, and a bunch of Carvin Guitars. Carvin makes amazing guitars. When you find people who own them, they typically become fanatics about them. There are times; I am not a number one fan of their pickups. But the quality of the guitars, from a cosmetic and craftsmanship perspective, is stunning. Yes I grab for my Les Paul and love the feel and tone of it. but I grab for my Carvin's more than any of the others. Actually I've got another one being built right now, be ready some time in March. The CT6 and DC400 are completely different feels and sound.

Their acoustic guitars are Korean made but are amazing for the price as well.

[eligit]

Originally Posted by allencollins

O.K. the official Allen Collins telecaster........

officially called the CollinsCaster!!! AKA the TELEBLASTER!!!!!!!!!!!

Solid 1 piece Korina set neck. Neck is routed and inlayed with a strip of solid purple heart wood for optimal strength and tension control. CollinsCaster neck tenon routed to a tolerance of .0001 for ultra tight set neck joint. Eastern rock maple fretboard Neck Fitted with custom Allen Collins solid silver ultra thin fretwire. Neck fretted to perfection and leveled and dressed by hand by a factory certified CollinsCaster fret technician. The Collins Caster is custom fitted with Burmese imperial jade fret markers.

Neck is fitted with original 'Allen Collins' CollinsCaster 24k Gold edition machine heads with custom 20:1 gear ratio. yes 20:1 !!!!!!! These tuners have a lead core for ultimate stability and a patented mass-spring-damper tuning assembly for the ultimate tuning experience.

A solid 1 piece quartersawn korina body finished with an ultra thin coat of Behlen nitrocellulose lacquer buffed to perfection with special edition Allen Collins buffing compounds. And topped off by a thin coat of Collins Caster edition Imperial Hand Glaze.

Guitar routed for two Lindy Fralin humbuckers wired for coil tapping with gold solder and shielded with real silver wire. These are Allen Collins Wizard edition pickups. Hand wound by Allen Collins!!!! Yes you read it correctly. Hand wound by me!!!

Custom Allen CollinsCaster lightweight Aluminum bridge custom made in the Allen Collins casting factory north of Jacksonville Florida.

The CollinsCaster is fitted with a limited edition bone nut hand made by Allen from unfossilized Tyrannosaurus bone* excavated from the Black Hills of North Dakota by Allen's archaeological unit.

Guitar is strung with high performance Allen Collins ACXL steel strings wound to perfection. This unique ACXL string design features annealed high speed steel implanted with Negative ions to provide the worlds first unbreakable guitar string. Yes unbreakable guitar string!!!!! Negative high voltage pulses in the range from zero to 5 kV have been applied to the samples during the deposition of the ACXL string mfg. process . The effect of the energy of the ions on the coating structure makes the ACXL not only unbreakable, but the string will never lose tone!!! The ACXL strings NEVER NEED TO BE REPLACED!!!!! They are guaranteed by A.C. FOR your natural LIFE**

This elegant hand crafted guitar is protected by a limited edition form fitted flight case with protective titanium exterior for ultimate protection without breaking your back!!!. The case is also fitted with a concealed GPS tracking device to assure when this guitar is stolen it will be recovered within minutes.


* - These bone nuts are subject to availability. If Tyrannosaurus bone is unavailable it will be substituted with either Triceratops or Brontosaurus
excavated unfossilized bone.

** - Lifetime guarantee is transferable upon the Collins Caster owners death.

yo, man if you dig korina......get a load of this:
http://www.zacharyguitars.com/010703_10.JPG

i love this crap out of this guitar....and the neck joint is tighter than.....tight.

26"....yum.

oil/wax finish...no plastic.

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by eligit

yo, man if you dig korina......get a load of this:
http://www.zacharyguitars.com/010703_10.JPG

i love this crap out of this guitar....and the neck joint is tighter than.....tight.

26"....yum.

oil/wax finish...no plastic.

yeah nice neck joint. I have a nice double cut les paul
made by this dude in Idaho with that same joint
Korina body/neck maple top. Sounds awesome!!!

Keep looking for the A.C. tele........

[eligit]

Originally Posted by allencollins

yeah nice neck joint. I have a nice double cut les paul
made by this dude in Idaho with that same joint
Korina body/neck maple top. Sounds awesome!!!

Keep looking for the A.C. tele........

interesting...is the neck pup imbedded in the neck wood somehow in that LP?

the only way the neck can go so deeply into the body on my Zs is by putting the neck pup farther back than it would normally be....this allows for 4.75 inches of neck joint....more than double the fender method of neck/body contact. also alex has this insane method of actually joining neck to body that makes them pretty much ONE thing. they are inseparable. it is about more than just surface area.

makes that korina vibrate like nobody's biz.

oh...and to stay on the thread....i picked up this hand made beaut for around $1800 with HS case.

[Master Tang]

Originally Posted by allencollins

It's impossible to get every note on every string to ring out properly like it does on a piano. No (phony) tempered tuning system like feiten is gonna solve all the problems with fretted instuments.

Ever tried to tune a piano?

I thought I would be real smart, and save myself some money, and bought a GREAT strobe tuner, and a piano peg key. We had moved, and the humidity change played havoc with my piano tuning


Ummmmm.... 6 hours later, it was a hopeless mess. Even though everything was spot on with regard to the strobe, and octaves worked well, playing chords sounded like Neil Young singing harmony with Bob Dylan.

Then the professional gets there, snickers at my tuner, and goes to work.

Piano tuning, IS tempered. A guitar with it's mathematical frets are actually more accurate, but, even properly intonated certain intervals will sound out of tune. It's not the intervals that are out, it's what our ear hears.

Don't want a Feiten tuning ?

Here's your choice.

62 Tone Just

As far as what guitar I would buy under 2500, I'd have to go with a handmade TK. He's a helluva nice guy too.

Home

[jamsmith]

Originally Posted by barryjohns

I am not a number one fan of their pickups. l.

I am. I put an S-11 in the bridge position in my strat 20 years ago and its still there as others have come and gone from the middle and neck positions.

[djbrough]

For $2500, I'd get an Eastman 186mx and a Ceriatone Overtone Special. For $3k, I'd switch out the ceriatone to a D'lite 44 or a Fuchs ODS.

[eligit]

that TK dude is doing some serious work.

personally i cannot get into aluminum frets, fanned fretboard, etc....but that guy is for real.

[FFTT]

I found the TK site facinating

Thanks for sharing.

Funny how we are set in our old ways and seem to fear innovation.

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by Master Tang

Ever tried to tune a piano?

Yes!!! when I was 12 years old. I quickly found
that when I played along to my Love Gun and Destroyer
8 tracks I was not in tune with Ace

Originally Posted by Master Tang

Piano tuning, IS tempered.

Yes and there are several temperments

Originally Posted by Master Tang

A guitar with it's mathematical frets are actually more accurate, but, even properly intonated certain intervals will sound out of tune.

Not true, if a piano is tuned to exact inetervals it would be way more perfect
than a guitar. But tempered tuning is more pleasing to the ear and technically the piano is not 100% in tune with a tempered system. And the old GS cliche 'it sounds more musical'. How can something thats not perfectly in tune be more musical? I have no clue but that's what we've been told for 300 years. Even a fretless gtr may not ever be perfectly in tune but without frets stleast the player can control the intonation better than a freted gtr or even a piano.


Ill check these out. thx
but they look like the Novax system

62 Tone Just

As far as what guitar I would buy under 2500, I'd have to go with a handmade TK. He's a helluva nice guy too.

Home

[FFTT]

If you were to buy something as rare as a TK, you'd be buying it for yourself
with little regard for re-sale value.

This is the most common problem buying rare 1 offs.
Some day they may be appreciated, but there's no guarantee.

Regardless of the fine details of build quality, the Fender, Gibson, Rickebacker known
brands are a much safer investment providing you don't over pay to begin with.

This doesn't matter if you never plan to sell your custom built guitar, but
you should be aware that buyers tend to stay within a certain comfort zone.

Damn the torpedos!

If you love playing the guitar, none of this matters really.

[Master Tang]

Originally Posted by FFTT

If you were to buy something as rare as a TK, you'd be buying it for yourself
with little regard for re-sale value.

That would be the only reason to spend upwards of 2 Gs on a guitar in the first place.

I never understood the whole "guitar as real estate" thing.

[biggator6]

I never understood the whole "guitar as real estate" thing.

Me neither.. but you do also hate to lose your shirt should you ever need/want to get rid of one of your instruments. It would suck to drop 3k on a custom guitar only to have to sell it for 1k because nobody knows what a 'tk' is.

Custom drums are the same way - there's a TON of 'custom' shops building keller-shell based kits.. lots of nice stuff. They charge 2-4k for kits... and you can't give them away for resale. A nice Yamaha/Ludwig/Tama/DW? much easier to resell if you need/want to.

[FFTT]

While we may not like the way the collectible market determines the value
of a guitar, we can't ignore what is happening either.

Those '83-86 Gibsons have doubled in value in the last 5 years and will continue
to go up rather quickly due to their limited production and build quality.

80's to early 90's American built Fenders are also strong.

That's really hard to ignore and due to hard times, even more fine gear is entering the market where normally these owners would never have dreamed of selling before.

Early guitars from G&L, Suhr, Hamer, Anderson and other fine well known custom builders are holding their own, but not to the degree of the major players.

So really, you still have to buy with your head not your heart if re-sale is a consideration.

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by FFTT

Those '83-86 Gibsons will continue
to go up rather quickly due to their build quality.

Are you kidding? Those are not as bad as 70's Gibson's but still
pretty crappy compared to 90's models

Originally Posted by FFTT

80's to early 90's American built Fenders are also strong.

Compared to what?. The korean one's?
Pretty much all fenders a crap. It's just
been a 'logo' since 1965.

Even the pre CBS stuff is still mediocre
as far as guitar building goes.

Anyone who pays more than $600 for
as strat is a complete sucker

[biggator6]

Yes, Allen... we get it. You don't like Fender.
"-)

[coheed56]

why spend more than two grand on a guitar ay?
cos they last and arent made out of cheese woods