hi gain heavy guitars?

[killefit]

hi everybody,
what tips can you give me to achieve that fat, hi gain, modern rock sound?

My guitars always sounds so muddy! So I heard, that boosting arround 6khz would help?

maybe someone can give me some eq tipps to make the guitars brighter and more fat?

what about compression?

thanx for your help

[Fernando S.]

Usually i use lot less drive when i'm recording and be careful with midrange. Kill it for make a really heavy sound is a very common mistake.
Those cares always works.
Right Mic choice and placement is a key too.

[BOWIE]

It's all in the amp sound. You have to tweak the amp (hoping that it's a good one to begin with). What sounds good in the room rarely sounds right to the 57 that's eating the grille. An LA-2A will sweeten it up a bit (even if you're not actually compressing w/ it). I have really never found any need to EQ after tracking.

The "modern" sound has everything to do w/ the brand of amp you're using.

[killefit]

ok,
but the guitars have already been recorded... so what can I do?

[BOWIE]

Originally Posted by killefit

ok,
but the guitars have already been recorded... so what can I do?

Thats tough... I'd run them real hot through some tube/transformer gear to make them fatter and possibly boost them aroung 5 to 6k (not too wide) and again at 10 to 12k (wide). That's a blind statment but it tends to work on a lot of different guitars. For "mud" I'd try the usual 300 to 500 hz cut but not so much that you remove the "oomph".
Compression may or may not help. You'll just have to listen.
Can you post a clip? That would help a lot.

[keiffer]

can you post a short clip of just the guitar as tracked?

[killefit]

ok, here are the dry guitars:
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here with my eq settings:
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here in the mix:
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so i boosted arround 5 khz and arround 12 khz and. at 350 hz I cutted a bit...


waht do you think? what can I do better?

[nandoanalog]

It sounds ok. The eq guitar sounds thin IMO....

You can`t really do anything to make it much better...

I think that the guitars have too much gain... That`s why they sound kinda muddy....


Just my opinion.

[ben_allison]

Muddy?

Hardly.

A bit "smeary." But that comes with a lot of gain (especially preamp gain).

I actually think you went a big crazy with the EQ. The un-EQ'd track sounded good. Seems like a decent starting point.

Notice when you listen to the track you EQ'd, there's almost a white noise/swoosh sound? That's not helping you any. Easy back a bit up there.

Here are two things I think what might help a lot:

1) Try to get some more MEAT in – like in the 400-700 range. See if there's anything in there that's useful (but don't force it). One approach could be to duplicate all your tracks, run a low pass down at like 700-800, and a high pass at say, 80. The play with a boost in the 400-700 range – see what works with what's already in the track. Throw some compression on in to taste – see if you can coax a bit more thud out of the track. Then, mix it back in with the original track. Phase issues? So. Use them!

2) Get the bass working with the guitars. How you get the bass to interface with the guitars is really going affect how "punchy" they seem, especially since there's so much gain going on. The bass is adding the punctuation to the 8th notes, while the guitars are adding no real percussiveness – they're just a wash of harmonics. So you need to really rely on the bass to lend its rhythm to the guitars. Try, again, duplicating your bass track. Re-amp it with some "growly" low-mid overdrive, and blend it back in, and see if you can get it to meld with the guitars. I think you'll be surprised how the track will come together when the bass and guitars are working as one instrument.

I don't think there's "too much gain." Have you listened to Meshuggah? Killswitch Engage? Way more gain there, but their tune were probably tracked to allow that gain to be realized in a more percussive, defined way, not a smeary way.

[Fernando S.]

Thats a real problem. I have never fixed a heavy guitar sound on a mix. Too compressed signals are a pain in the a** to fix. If isn't sound right at the recording process, rarely will sound ok at the mix. Try to hi pass, not hi boost, and hear whats happens...

[keiffer]

the dry gtr clip's top end is like white noise. it seems unrelated. muddy is not how I would describe this. tone body seems lacking. but I can see how this might fit.

I would:

redo the mic positioning

EQ the amp differently. maybe more mids

I'm not for blanket 'Turn the gain down", but the gain in this clip is not beneficial

[Unclenny]

I agree with Ben........back off closer to the dry version and then work your bass.
It sounds like there is a lot of room for that bass guit....use it and give the bass some of the stage.

[BOWIE]

After listening to the dry clip I would definitely try what I said before about running it hot through some analog gear w/ nice tubes or transformers. This will tame the "fizz" a little and bring out the growl. I wouldn't do a whole lot else. That amp does not sound so great at high-gain (though it's really not THAT bad either) and you're pretty much stuck w/ that sound. EQing it will likely just weaken an allready thin track.

[Methlab]

hi pass low pass...maybe use an L1 on the end to get a little more oomph out of the bussed guitars.

I really dont EQ gtrs much at all after tracking either. I get the sound on the amp mic combo, and then hi and low pass to make some room and im done.

[Unclenny]

I do the L1 thing also.....gotta be careful though, as a little goes a long way.

I do always EQ my guit tracks....I'm using multiple amps and the mids tend to pile up a little.