Chinese Les Paul Clones

[Dr David]

Originally Posted by *********

I've searched and searched but cannot find a review or comment on the quality of the les paul clones scammers are selling on ebay and craigslist. Sorry if someone ripped you off but can you tell me how they play? I've noticed some people are just flat out selling them now...for the original $300 price tag.

I don't want to post the link because I haven't read the terms and don't want to lose my account on the first post.

******

Hi a friend of mine bought one of these and this guitar is superb, looks good quality superb, sounds great 100% £226.00 Versus £2000 for a Gibson No Contest.

[Dr David]

Originally Posted by *********

I've searched and searched but cannot find a review or comment on the quality of the les paul clones scammers are selling on ebay and craigslist. Sorry if someone ripped you off but can you tell me how they play? I've noticed some people are just flat out selling them now...for the original $300 price tag.

I don't want to post the link because I haven't read the terms and don't want to lose my account on the first post.

******

Hi Group a friend of mine bought one of these Les Paul flame tops what a instrument gorgeous to look at and the sound £226.00 versus £2000 for the real one mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm no contest .

[Dr David]

Hi Group a friend of mine bought one of these Les Paul flame tops what a instrument gorgeous to look at and the sound was amazing, and it was fitted with a "well known Pickups" as well £226.00 versus £2000 for the real one mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm no contest .

[skylabfilmpop]

Originally Posted by poorboy

Hello all
Just joined after reading these posts about the Chinese Les Pauls and thought I'd give my opinion. Let me start by saying that I owned a 1987 Gibson Gold Top 58 reissue that I purchased brand new before I got married. I also bought an ES335 and a 175 around the same time. Used to play the 335 more than the Paul. Had to sell them all when the wife and kids came into the picture and things have just been too tight the past 15 years to ever be able to buy another real Les Paul. This is were the Chinese Paul comes into the picture. After reading about them on the net I started getting curious so I did some searching and found a source that I felt I could trust. Believe me the only thoughts going through my head for the week and a half that I was waiting for it to be delivered were I got conned. Well it arrived last month. Les Paul Standard sunburst. The guitar itself was $205.00. With shipping and a hard case it came out to $390.00. Very pleased when I received it. Very nice guitar of course the electronics are shit as has been mentioned before but I expected this. After putting about another $200.00 into it (I had one of the pup already) and doing the work myself I can't put it down. Replaced the bridge and tuning machines with Grovers, the pups with Seymour 59's (nickel covered at the neck and black at the bridge) , the pots with 500K push pulls, did the page wiring (Yeah I love jimmy and even if he didn't have this setup with Zeppelin it still gives an amazing variety of sounds). I might have a setup done on it. There is a slight buzz on the "A" string at the 3rd fret but it dosen't really bother me. My strat buzzes more and it's a real Fender . So after all is said and done for about $590.00 I have a guitar that looks, feels, and sounds like a Gibson Les Paul. All I want to do is play it. I have no intention of ever selling it. It has made me very happy and I agree with those that say Gibsons are way overpriced.

Okay you can attack me now.

I have played a few of these marked Gibson and others marked as something else and find them in the neighborhood of tokai, burny and edwards les pauls but in most cases with less attention to detail in a lot of the spec, and no attempt made to being a vintage reissue. The Gibson branded ones seem to my eye to be modeled after mid level production Gibsons, and have some characteristics of those models from the early 80's. Where these fall down to me and it makes me think that Chinese manufacturers are really missing the boat is in the finish. I am just guessing here, but am basing it on a friend of mine's experience helping to design attractions for Disneyland in Shanghai, there is very little environmental or workplace safety law or envorcement there. Why then dont they spray nitro? That would be a great marketing edge for them, and probably somewhat close the gap between Real and replica Gibsons.

Regardless of quality or construction methods, there are other more serious considerations of supporting inexpensive overseas made replicas, mostly moral. The first is that we have been sold a bill of entitlement over the past 15-20 years that we are entitled to cheap stuff and that as consumers we can stomp our feet and demand lower prices and the Walmarts and Home Depots of the world will put more and more downward pressure on manufacturers and we'll get more cheap stuff. Of the many side effects of this ( lead paint on baby toys, reduced quality of products, landfills overflowing due to recieving goods as trash in a shorter span of time), an important one is that it creates downward pressure on our own wages. I'd say this is evident by that you are a grown man with a family who cant earn an extra $2000 to buy a guitar. The other consideration is a more personal moral one, and not copyright infringement as that has already been covered. A friend of mine was overseeing the attractions being built for Disneyland in Shanghai, he was appalled that none of his workers who were hand applying fiberglass to frames were wearing respirators. On a trip home he bought his entire crew respirators and gave them as gifts on his return. The following day they returned to work and no one was using their new masks as they had all sold them. This demonstrates a lot including culturally the lack of concern for safety from perspective of the bosses and the workers, but more importantly the fact that all of these workers were so abjectly poor despite having full employment that they chose to resell a $25 face mask over their own health and safety. If you would like to support this its your choice but it makes you both an idiot and an asshole in my book. In doing so you are voting with your dollars that those kind of wages and conditions and in terms of copyright, ignoring the rule of law, are OK. It is ultimately undermining to your own well being and way of life and lowers the bar on the world your kids will grow up in. Its funny to think that for about $50 more than you paid for a morally toxic replica you could of just bought a used les paul studio .......

[poorboy]

Well I think its pretty obvious I don't give a **** about your opinion of me or my guitar. Your's is a typical reaction by someone who got ripped off by Gibson and is attacking me with name calling. It's Gibsons greed that brought this about period. I am just posting my experience with my FAKE Les Paul which by the way after doing a setup is unbelievable now.

Have a nice day.

[joeydego]

Originally Posted by poorboy

Well I think its pretty obvious I don't give a **** about your opinion of me or my guitar. Your's is a typical reaction by someone who got ripped off by Gibson and is attacking me with name calling. It's Gibsons greed that brought this about period. I am just posting my experience with my FAKE Les Paul which by the way after doing a setup is unbelievable now.

Have a nice day.

how is gibson greedy? They make guitars at many different price points.

[skylabfilmpop]

Originally Posted by joeydego

how is gibson greedy? They make guitars at many different price points.

Gibson profits on a les paul standard probably much less than your dentist profits on a root canal and crown, or about what your mechanic clears on a timing belt and major service. To get it in perspective first consider that the retailer probably grabs 40% of the $2499 price (40% = $1k). Lop off $50 for shipping to the store and the Gibson is out the door at $1450. If you have ever done any detailed woodworking or finishing its a bit of a finnicky job that requires care. Even with good assembly line technology I'd guess it takes 20 hours of labor to make one and a case start to finish, not counting the time glue sets, and finishes. I did a quick google of Gibson salaries and came up with $14/hr for a builder, I cant vouch for the current accuracy of that, it seems low, but at that rate, labor is $280 for the techs who built the guitar. Looking around at luthier supplies Stew Mac has Mahogany neck and body blanks and fingerboards for about $226, which I'll lop in half for $113 wholesale price. Gibson is now clearing $1007 from the guitar. Pickups hardware plastic parts, and trussrod at retail are about $424. Guessing their cost is 1/2 of 60% (less 40% retailers markup) that's $127. Gibson is down to $880 on the guitar now. Grabbing some figures from a random manufacturing business model I found on the net the following expenses are significant and could be more or less in Gibson's case, the amounts are being calculated on the wholesale price of a LP less materials and labor $880: Business insurance 1%($9), The Builders Benefits, Payroll Taxes, Workers comp 25% salary ($70), Bad debt 1% ($9), Interest expense on Materials 8.5% ($49), Rent/utilities as percent of gross revenue 10% ($145), the running total is now $292 overhead, we are down to $588 profit on the les paul and have not considered interest on Capital Equipment (Plek Machines are not cheap, nor are CNC routers), Interest on long term Expenses, Facilities maintenance, Distribution expense, or the salaries of any of the other employees of the company, advertising, promotional expenses or state or local taxes. Likely the company sees in the 20% range of gross revenue ($1450) or about $290. Most retailers have terms in that they might take 60-90 days after they recieive the guitar to pay for it. "so let me get this, you want to pay me $300 to make you a guitar from scratch and I have to absorb all the risks and expense of doing so. It will take me three days to do it and then I have to wait three months to get paid?" What greedy ****s!
So this breakdown bears reflection on how much the $300 replica costs to make, and how it gets done so cheap. There are obviously costs to doing business in the US that chinese manufacturers don't face, Workers comp, types of insurance and tax requirements, goverment subsidising manufacturers (no need to borrow to finance business), no elaborate marketing, no endorsee give aways, and no R/D they are just miming an already developed product, possibly the retailer and manufacturer are one. But the disconnect between the costs are so big we also need to consider the origin of the materials and the labor. Cheap guitars reek to me of wood harvested without stewardship. And as I mentioned before the wages at the guitar factory have to be astoundingly low. In this country $14 an hour, roughly $27k per year does not go far. The Chinese guitar builder is likely making a small fraction of that. His/her lifestyle reflects that. In many Asian countries (eg Vietnam) workers are addicted to Meth which they use to function without sleep because of keeping multiple jobs. The quality and standard of living is incredibly low and workers are basically just emerging from rural indentured servitude to an industrialized version of the same.
When we buy these instruments we vote with our dollars, approving all of this. Again it will ultimately come home, to a degree it already has. How can Gibson make a more inexpensive guitar? Lower costs, lower salaries, expatriate plants. Gibson does garner the rap of being a difficult company to work for,but their culture and conditions are probably luxurious by Chinese standards, they keep all of their manufacturing of "gibson" branded products here in the states and I support that, even if it means paying more. In the end making my art the quality of my instrument is important to me, and the Chinese gibson clones feel more like Epiphone clones to me, its not a brand or status issue but a sonic and playability one. At the end of the day, I'd like to know the guitar I play has no blood attached to it, no child labor, no near slave wages, no "you mangled your arm in the router, tough luck" to it, no thoughtless deforestation and no piracy. I am calling no one here a name, but I am holding up a mirror....

[poorboy]

I think you just like to hear yourself talk.

[poorboy]

And another thing, you think you can stereotype a little more? If meth addicted children are making these guitars then we should start hiring kids and addicting them to meth. So you don't think it's possible that there are skilled craftsmen in China that are not drug addicted and have regular jobs to support their loving famillies? My failure to respond to any more of your posts is intentional.

[skylabfilmpop]

The Meth problem in Asia is real, its a credible and incredible shame and in large part the problem is driven by the USA's consumers desire for inexpensive products . Catering to this desire retailers like Walmart, Home Depot, and even Guitar Center who private label Chinese made student guitars and put excessive downward pressure on all manufacturers, probably the reason the name maker guitars there seem "box store quality" and are never set up. Check out this article from Time Magazine

Need for Speed - TIME

"It had originally been the drug of choice for long-haul truck and bus drivers, but during the go-go '90s, it evolved into the working man's and woman's preferred intoxicant, gradually becoming more popular among Thailand's underclass than heroin and eventually replacing that opiate as the leading drug produced in the notorious Golden Triangle. While methamphetamines had previously been sold either in powdered or crystalline form, new labs in Burma and northern Thailand commoditized the methamphetamine business by pressing little tablets of the substance that now retail for about 50 baht ($1.20) each....it's appropriate that speed is Asia's drug of choice, with an estimated 30 million users across the region. Hard work remains this part of the world's indomitable virtue. Making money and getting rich are viewed as glorious ends in themselves, no matter the means. And methamphetamine use, at first, dovetails nicely with those 16-hour days slaving on a construction site or hunched over a workstation. It is the perfect drug for those struggling to keep pace with an upwardly mobile continent."

Additionally check out this report from China Labor Watch web site

Chinese Workers Manufacturing for McDonald's and Disney Outraged by Mistreatment-Toy


"Chinese Workers Manufacturing for McDonald's and Disney Outraged by Mistreatment-

On July 22, 2006 , workers from the Merton Co. Ltd. (a/k/a Hengli Factory) in the Sangyuan Industrial District, Dongguan City , Guangdong Province, protested against the meager wage and poor living conditions in the factory. The protest began in workers' dorms and soon evolved into a self-organized labor riot. At night, the factory police sent riot vehicles and squad to control the situation (the factory has approximately 10,000 workers).......According to China Labor Watch's investigation, workers at the Merton Company typically work for 11 hours a day and 6 days a week. The total overtime hours go up to 70 hours a month. However, under the Chinese Labor Law, workers shall not work for more than 40 hours a week and overtime shall not exceed 36 hours a month. Workers will be subject to salary deduction if they refuse to work overtime. At Merton, workers do not enjoy paid national holidays, vacation or sick leave... The base salary for workers who are paid at hourly rate at Merton is 574 RMB ($71.75) a month, the exact minimum wage standard in Dongguan. The factory does not calculate workers' overtime compensation separately and overtime is not paid 1.5 times of regular rate as required by the law. There is not base salary for workers who are paid at piece rate. Workers' salaries are normally withheld for a month.......

In addition, workers told the investigator that the factory meals are of poor quality, while workers must pay 250 RMB ($31.25) for food and dorm, approximately ¼ of their monthly income. Their take-home salaries range between 600 and 800 RMB ($75-100) a month."


OK so my point is If we look at these conditions which are reminiscent of the conditions of 19th century industrialism in the US and Europe, some things stand out to me: $71 a month salary, factory police, factory dorms, factory food and board. Is this the reality you want for yourself or your children? Its appalling and frightening and its what we will get when we in a laissez faire fashion accept the products manufactured this way as legitimate participants in our market and demand American manufacturers follow suit. The downward pressure on wages will eventually spiderweb into the majority of our eonomy. Its already evident in the changes in the wealth gap over the last 20 years, and stands to get much worse. So yes these guitars could be made by skilled craftsmen who support their loving families on $3/a day for 11 hours work, they all live in the factory dormatory, what a cheery, lovely existence!

[myplayingislame]

The Chinese issue is one of the largest "problems" we have in this country, we want full employment at high wages AND very cheap products. However I would ask that people speak of what they know and have seen, not what they believe or have been told. I would ask in this vein how many times the China bashers on this site have visited China and if they have then how many small independant factories they have visited?

[drbob1]

This is kind of weird. I think SLFP's points are, in the main, pretty well reasoned. Gibson isn't getting richer than any other american company and they did do the R&D. But even more telling, you can buy a really nice Epiphone, with no moral scruples about intellectual property theft for little more than you're putting into these Chinese Guitars. I have a Sam Ash Epi Explorer with factory active EMG 81/85 pickups I paid $400 for. The chinese LPs are costing MORE than that with decent electronics. And the setup was fine right out of the box...

[notryt]

I picked up a OSP les paul clone dirt cheap. about 2005 model. I cant find any info on it. But it plays well. normal, not thin neck. It did sound decent the way I got it.. But my thinking is if it was that cheap the pickups need to go.. got a set of dream 180s from GFS and it did make the thing sound different.. I dont know if it was better but the 180s are definitely hotter. I would compare the OSP (stock) to my agile al-2000 stock.
I really dont know which one I prefer. but except for the horn they are practically identical. Makes me wonder if they werent made in the same place. I couldnt touch even a epi lp100 for what I payed for both of these combined..used of course. I would say either would give a epi lp standard a run for its money. I of course never buy new, too many starving artists willing to sell for food.. and I only play as a hobby.

[elwrongo]

I've now had three of these Chinese guitars (from TradeTang) through my hands now and they are interesting and pretty good for $300 landed(!). I've had a Gretsch White Falcon, Gibson 335 and Gretsch 6210 Chet Atkins.

They all play well, especially the 335. The finish is a bit rough in spots but only really on close inspection.The 335 feels a bit light especially compared to my 70's Ibanez.

They are all much better than the first guitars I had to play when starting the arly 80's. The actions are low and even. The fretboards were dry but lemon oil fixed that. The hardware looks very cheap and on the 6120 was already pitted!

Overall I think they compare with the current cheap Ibanez's AF75? Epiphones ai think are a better finish and production (e.g. Sheratons) and they are certainly a long way off mid to late seventies Ibanez's. But they are cheap and fun.

I got the Gretsch copies because they look cool. And until recently (5210) there were not any Gretsch copies around. The pickups are just gold humbuckers.

The logos, serial numbers and other insignia look weird and a dead giveaway.

I paid via Paypal and they took just over a week to arrive, very well packed. If you use Trade Tang select a seller with lots of trade and posritive feedback (over 1000). I used a seller called DAVE.

As I say they are fun but they don't call you to pick them up and play them all day.

[Papanate]

Originally Posted by gregohb

On the other hand, almost everything made in Japan is great and better than comparable things made in the US.

That's simply not true.

If you want a good deal on a quality Les Paul, you can get one of those Gibson Les Pauls which is not branded Gibson because of trademark issue in Japan. They are called Orvilles I think and you can get them for $800 or so - about half of their value of a US Gibson.

Again...not true. Orville was an officially Gibson licensed guitars to be sold in the Japanese market only. They were nice to a degree...you have to pick and choose to get the right one.

[joeydego]

Sweetwater has 18 months financing on Gibson until the end of the month. You can buy a 900 dollar studio and send them 13 bucks a week and have a REAL guitar in your hands. Why would anyone waste 300 bucks on one of these things?

[atomicohm]

I bought one, wasn´t pleased with the sound and feeling so i changed the pickups for some Gibson burstbucker alnico pro V, Gotoh tuners, new gibson bridge and tail, ( pots, jack, switch from switchcraft), new cable for electronics, a fast visit to the technitian, and WOW, I LOVE MY CHINESE LP STANDARD NOW....... I bought every thing in ebay for a good price, and the guitar now is as it should be in the first place. If you play it you can realize that doesn´t feel like an original LP, the arm is diferent, but the sound is so good. I´ll never sell it. I have an original Gibson LP Standard, which i use alot, but for some things i use the chinese.

[Ron Vogel]

Yes the working conditions are bad...I was having a convo with the COO over here about Foxconn..guess they had to put up netting because people were routinely throwing themselves off the highest points of the building!
[img]******//picturehosting.com/images/RonVogel/foxconn.jpg[/img]
I wouldn't think China would notice a boycott of Les Paul clones...they have plenty of other buisiness.

Here's an excerpt of Wiki's entry on Foxconn:



Major customersFoxconn manufactures products for companies including:

(country of headquarters in parentheses)

Acer Inc. (Taiwan)[27]
Amazon.com (United States)[28]
Apple Inc. (United States)[29]
ASRock (Taiwan)[citation needed]
Asus (Taiwan)[citation needed]
Barnes & Noble (United States)[citation needed]
Cisco (United States)[30]
Dell (United States)[31]
EVGA Corporation (United States)
Hewlett-Packard (United States)[32]
Intel (United States)[33]
IBM (United States)[citation needed]
Lenovo (China)[citation needed]
Microsoft (United States)[34]
MSI (Taiwan)[citation needed]
Motorola (United States)[31]
Netgear (United States)[citation needed]
Nintendo (Japan)[35]
Nokia (Finland)[29]
Panasonic (Japan)[citation needed]
Samsung (South Korea)[36]
Sharp (Japan)[citation needed]
Sony (Japan)[37]
Sony Ericsson (Japan/Sweden)[38]
Vizio (United States)[39]
[edit] Controversies[edit] Allegations of poor working conditionsAllegations of poor working conditions have been made on a number of occasions.[40] News reports highlight the long working hours,[14][16] discrimination against mainland Chinese workers by their Taiwanese co-workers,[41] and lack of working relationships at the company.[42] Although Foxconn was found to be compliant in the majority of areas when Apple audited the maker of its iPods and iPhones,[6] the audit did substantiate a few of the allegations.[43]

[edit] SuicidesMain article: Foxconn suicides
Sun Danyong, a 25-year-old male, committed suicide in July 2009 after reporting the loss of an iPhone 4[44] prototype in his possession.[45]

In reaction to a spate of worker suicides where fourteen died in 2010,[38] a report by twenty Chinese universities described Foxconn factories as labour camps and detailed widespread worker abuse and illegal overtime.[46] In response to the suicides, Foxconn installed suicide-prevention netting at some facilities,[40] and it promised to offer substantially higher wages at its Shenzhen production bases.[47] Workers were also forced to sign a legally binding document guaranteeing that they and their descendants would not sue the company as a result of unexpected death, self-injury, or suicide.[48]

[edit] ProtestsIn January 2012, 150 workers in Wuhan threatened to commit mass suicide because of worsening work conditions.[49] The employees had asked for a raise but were told they could either quit with compensation or keep their jobs with no raise. The employees quit, but did not receive their compensation.[50]

[Gary Ladd]

Originally Posted by sharky 007

I got my copy 59 Custom Shop Iced Tea today and it took 6 days to get to Canada. I have to say it's no Gibson but after alittle set up and will have to pot the pick ups it sounds and plays very well. I own 3 real Gibsons 2 pauls and an Explorer but this $300.00 copy is going to be my gig guitar. Who cares if it gets damaged or stolen. I don't agree with people selling them as real thing. But for personal use what the hey...

What's a little piracy between friends, eh?

[BlackBeauty]

Let me say guys that we all suck.
We have a totally wrong perspective of how world should be....or even worse, we all know how it should be but we all are a bunch of hypocrites.

We think....we deserve rights, jobs, good wages, etc. But we do nothing to get it, actually quite the opposite. Our egoims is much bigger that our deepest thoughts.

I do not understand how people still feed the monster knowing how the world is running. Keep on buying everything cheap from China. Keep on encouraging it to be the world manufacture. Keep on getting cheap items from countries which do not respect the basics human rights. Make all companies from your country move to Asia looking for less expenses and more profits.
And later demand and claim to have a decent job and salary in your country...and a social coverage work for your kids. And still thinking that you are clever than rest of guys because you got a bargain, and you didn't pay the real value of things...wow!!!

And years later think if your consumerism of having more cheaper guitars, iphones or ipads really deserves our sad live.

Sorry for not talking about the quaility of these guitars. But it really pisses me of. The world really sucks.

There's no pride at all.

[Papanate]

Originally Posted by BlackBeauty

Let me say guys that we all suck.

No we don't.

We think....we deserve rights, jobs, good wages, etc. But we do nothing to get it, actually quite the opposite. Our egoims is much bigger that our deepest thoughts.

I do a lot about it. I run my company as best as I know how...so that is profitable. Being profitable means I can hire more techs. And we also pay above scale.

I do not understand how people still feed the monster knowing how the world is running. Keep on buying everything cheap from China. Keep on encouraging it to be the world manufacture. Keep on getting cheap items from countries which do not respect the basics human rights. Make all companies from your country move to Asia looking for less expenses and more profits.
And later demand and claim to have a decent job and salary in your country...and a social coverage work for your kids. And still thinking that you are clever than rest of guys because you got a bargain, and you didn't pay the real value of things...wow!!!

I think we get it...I just think we are in a weird economic situation that requires a different group of leaders than we currently have. We need people with vision and purpose. We need leaders who no longer think that we should prosper while other countries barely survive or worse. China isn't the issue - the way our leadership thinks is.

And years later think if your consumerism of having more cheaper guitars, iphones or ipads really deserves our sad live.

Consumerism is an issue - but technology shouldn't be limited to stop an economic principle that's not working. And we need to find replacement economies or we will be screwed even worse.

Sorry for not talking about the quaility of these guitars. But it really pisses me of. The world really sucks.

Well giving money to Gibson or Fender still puts a lot of money in the Chinese and Indoesian economies indirectly. But we should keep it in perspective...
China builds a guitar - that guitar gets shipped to a store by a company that employs people (UPS lets say)....they make a profit and living for a bunch of people....that guitar goes to a guitar store who employs people. It gets sold and the owner makes a living and keeps employees who make a living. And Fender or Gibson continue to make money and keep people employed.

It is not as simple as you like to paint it.

[sharky 007]

Originally Posted by BlackBeauty

Let me say guys that we all suck.
We have a totally wrong perspective of how world should be....or even worse, we all know how it should be but we all are a bunch of hypocrites.

We think....we deserve rights, jobs, good wages, etc. But we do nothing to get it, actually quite the opposite. Our egoims is much bigger that our deepest thoughts.

I do not understand how people still feed the monster knowing how the world is running. Keep on buying everything cheap from China. Keep on encouraging it to be the world manufacture. Keep on getting cheap items from countries which do not respect the basics human rights. Make all companies from your country move to Asia looking for less expenses and more profits.
And later demand and claim to have a decent job and salary in your country...and a social coverage work for your kids. And still thinking that you are clever than rest of guys because you got a bargain, and you didn't pay the real value of things...wow!!!

And years later think if your consumerism of having more cheaper guitars, iphones or ipads really deserves our sad live.

Sorry for not talking about the quaility of these guitars. But it really pisses me of. The world really sucks.

There's no pride at all.

Hey I have 3 real Gibsons and a Korean Epiphone so I have supported Gibson and the there workers so I'm not feeling bad at all. Gibson got $7000.00 from me China got $300.00

[Papanate]

Originally Posted by sharky 007

Hey I have 3 real Gibsons and a Korean Epiphone so I have supported Gibson and the there workers so I'm not feeling bad at all. Gibson got $7000.00 from me China got $300.00

Gibson got about $4950 and China got about $67.
All the rest goes to advertising, shipping, the store you bought it at, and to various other groups with their hands in the guitar wallet.

[toneguru]

The main problem is not so much the people of the US or the people of China. It is the US govt and the Chinese govt. They are both in bed and controlled by super rich monied interests. Especially here in the US.

Here in the US it has been a decades old transition. One that 50 years ago supported a working class society built on a strong dollar and a strong middle class. For the last 30 years the govt has been systematically dismantllng both. Not just here in the US but also in England and much of Europe. Now it is a banker controlled world geared for asset speculation and corporate profits. If wars mean more profits than they create fear and start wars.

If you have a problem with China and trade and such but do not have a problem with the Obama/Bush/Clinton/Reagan policies and teams that brought us here, than you are being misdirected from what is at the core of the problem. Misdirection is a key tactic of dangerous regimes. Speaking of regimes, here in the US we have not had a regime change in quite a long time.

A little off topic I suppose but key to some of the earlier posts none the less.

[sharky 007]

Originally Posted by Papanate

Gibson got about $4950 and China got about $67.
All the rest goes to advertising, shipping, the store you bought it at, and to various other groups with their hands in the guitar wallet.

You got that right!!

[shamaley]

Would Anyone Be so Kind as to PLEASE Email me a Reputable Website that I can Go to myself to Purchase a CHINESE GIBSON LES PAUL, I want to buy one for myself to compare with my other Les Pauls,but I don not know where to go to? :-( They are ALL OVER YOUTUBE, but the people posting, do not tell where they purchased them from, other than that " They are from China"

My email address is shamaley@gmx.com Thank you So Much, And GOD BLESS Each and Every One of You!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

shamaley@gmx.com

[Jim Williams]

I bought a Chinese made Epiphone Les Paul Plus Top limited edition in Desertburst, a lovely looking guitar in gold hardware. I paid $550 for it.

I've had many Les Pauls in the past, this is as good as any of them. The neck is a proper shape like the 1960's Gibsons, not those major league tree limbs a great player can't move quickly on.

Grover tuners, good wood choices and a poly finish. The fingerboard is very smooth and with a little fret work it's perfect. Nice solid Les Paul tone, but with better hardware like the bridge and a steel stop piece, my older Les Pauls used aluminum!

All of the Chinese electronics are poor. The pickups are overwound and dark. The alpha pots not so great. I replaced that crap with good stuff, a Gibson 57 classic in the bridge and a burstbucker 1 in the neck spot. Now it sounds like 1968.

[DerekJ]

Originally Posted by *********

I've searched and searched but cannot find a review or comment on the quality of the les paul clones scammers are selling on ebay and craigslist. Sorry if someone ripped you off but can you tell me how they play? I've noticed some people are just flat out selling them now...for the original $300 price tag.

I don't want to post the link because I haven't read the terms and don't want to lose my account on the first post.

******

China made instruments, with no exception, are garbage.

Next question please.

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by DerekJ

China made instruments, with no exception, are garbage.

Next question please.

Well, that settles it.

[Zaka]

Originally Posted by DerekJ

China made instruments, with no exception, are garbage.

Next question please.

you'r using a pretty broad brush here lol, bad quality and unreliability are often related to the component or material used to make something not where its made, but indeed you'r right overally the made in china is something to avoid when possible,