Avatar Cabinets

[smoore98]

I have been doing research on guitar cabinets and Avatar keeps bubbling up to the top. I have seen a lot of great reviews and people in music stores around Nashville have recommended them. I want to be able to use the Randall MTS RM4 and RT2/50, as well as various heads (Matchless, Splawn, Marshall, etc...). I would like to be able to get the most versatile and flexible system going for recording purposes. It will never be used live. My goal is to have three different cabinet configurations. Here is what I had in mind:

1. One 4X12 closed back cabinet with Celestion V30's and G12H30's in an "X" configuration.

2. One 2X12 open back cabinet with an alnico blue and a G12H30, or else two alnico blues.

3. A 1X12 with a single G12H30.

I have been thinking that I should just go with avatar on all of them since they make them in these configurations. I also was looking at the Bogner for the 1X12. Do any of you have any of these combination speaker types, or Avatar cabinets?

Does this sound like a versatile set of cabinets for when I bring in new amp heads to mix and match and get the color of sounds I will need for a variets of music types (pop, rock, metal)?

The Randal RT2 allows switching between 4, 8, and 16 OHM. My thought is to get the 4X12 as a stereo 8 OHM, but I am not sure about the other two. If anyone has any suggestions on OHMAGE (since I am totally ignorant about that part of it), it would be much appreciated.

Final question - since I am recording, should I try to get cabinets that allow me to remove the grill cloth so I can mike them like Michael Wagener does (see the King's X threads) or does this make that much difference?

Thanks,
Scott

[bdmctear]

I am in a similar position right now, and Avatar is a serious consideration. My only suggestion has to do with the fact that you will only have 12 inch speakers throughout your selection. For recording, personally, I would recommend at least considering something with 10 inch speakers in your selection as well. Frankly I have enjoyed the Marshall 1965B cabinet (closed back, of course) much more than the 1960B. 4 ten inch speakers provide excellent overall low end, and an easier range to narrow down by close mic placement. Plus there are a whole series of classic Fender amps (the Bassman, the Bandmaster, the Vibrolux, +++) that used 10 inch speakers as opposed to 12 inch speakers. It would make good sense to provide such an alternative in your selection.

Either way, good luck!

B

[smoore98]

I called Dave at Avatar on Friday and he is indeed one of the friendliest guys in music equipment sales I have ever met. As soon as I can, I am going to order all three of these. That is a good idea about the 4 10"'s. I have never actually played through one of those, but why not get one any way?

I will post a review when they arrive.

Scott

[analogtodd]

The old 80's era Marshall 4x10 and 2x12 cabs are really cool.
I used to gig a lot with just one 4x10

how about an 8x10????

[contempo]

i have an avatar split back 2x12...half open, half closed. i forget what kind of celestions are in there but they're high power ones, i think 150 watts each or something. i don't like the sound of speaker breakup since it's mostly detuned 'heavy' stuff, but i know some guys do.

splawn cabs are great too. rivera, bogner...they make a awesome 2x12 that thumps like a 4x12! can't go wrong with any of those

[smoore98]

well, my avatars arrived today. I will have some pics and comparisons in the next couple of days. I am a little unsure if I actually like the sound or not, which bothers me a little. I am doing a side by side with my Line6 cab and it sounds to me like the Line6 with the celestions have more bottom end and better breakup. I need to do a mic test to be sure. I will let you know.

S

[bogeyeater]

Originally Posted by smoore98

... good idea about the 4 10"'s. I have never actually played through one of those, but why not get one any way?


Scott

thus spake a true gearslut

[Jax]

Originally Posted by smoore98

well, my avatars arrived today. I will have some pics and comparisons in the next couple of days. I am a little unsure if I actually like the sound or not, which bothers me a little. I am doing a side by side with my Line6 cab and it sounds to me like the Line6 with the celestions have more bottom end and better breakup. I need to do a mic test to be sure. I will let you know.

S

smoore, if you're using new speakers in your new cab, they may need to be broken-in (played @ 1-2 hours a day for a week) before the cab really starts to sound the way it should. Don't know if you know this, but it's just a heads-up. The same thing applies to most guitar speakers, except for some that are sold new, already broken-in.

Also, what speakers are in each cab and what configuration? What did you go with?

I'm looking at getting an Avatar cab myself.

[smoore98]

Jax,

I really hope you are right. I got:

1. One 4X12 closed back cabinet with Celestion V30's and G12H30's in an "X" configuration.

2. One 2X12 closed back cabinet with two alnico blues.

3. A 1X12 with a single G12H30.

They all sound bright so I hope this is the issue. Otherwise I am going to be pissed, especially since the Line6 cab has more low end. I am going to just play on them for a few weeks and then I will do some A/B comparisons again. I am going to do some mic tests this weekend and will post the results.

Scott

[bikescene]

If you're thinking about the V30 or H30 route, consider putting in Avatar's Hellatone speakers. They are V30s and H30s which are pre broken in and rebranded. That takes away about the hassle of the initial breakin of the speakers. Currently Avatar is only allowed to do this to the V30s and H30s, but he may still have a few Hellatone 60Ls available, which were the OEM V30s from the Marshall Mode 4 cabs.

HELLATONE

[jdunn]

I recently bought a Mojo 2x12" Marshall style cab that is a little smaller than a 4x12". I'll be loading it with some Eminence Red White & Blues when they arrive on Monday. I'll report on how it sounds asap. I've heard that Mojo builds the Premier Vintage Bluesbreaker style cab for Avatar, but I'm not sure if they build any others. I've also heard that Mojo cabs have the best vintage tone, if that's what you're going for.

Here are a few other options though.

Port City Music Supply, Boutiqe Handmade Cabinets and Amplifiers

Check out the Wave Cabs at Port City. The cab I bought is not on the website, but if you search ebay for "Mojo" you'll find them. I haven't tried the Wave Cab, but I heard they rock. It channels the sound inside the cabinet, kind of like one of those Bose Wave Radios that Herbie Hancock sells on late night tv.

Earcandycabs.com | Home | Ported Guitar Cabs, Ported Bass Cabs, Guitar Cabs, Bass Cabs, Instrument Cables, Speaker Cables, Custom Ported Cabinets, Custom Ported Cabs, Guitar Cab, Bass Cab, Cabinets, Guitar Enclosures, Guitar Amps, Custom Guitar Amps,

Also these Ear Candy cabs are very popular. They have about a 6 week wait time, but can be highly customized. The Port City cabs ship right away, at least mine did.

You can find a lot of info about amps and cabs at this forum here.....

Amps and Cabs - The Gear Page

[TyRip]

I have a Vintage style Avatar 2x12 coming in this week.

It is the Bluesbreaker style cab, loaded with two Hellatone 60s (Vintage 30s).



I will let you guys know what I think when it gets here....

[smoore98]

Here are the results in detail. Please let me know what you think:

******//nashvillewannabe.blogspot.com...t-testing.html

Thanks,
Scott

[ToneBender67]

The Avatar 2x12 with alnico blues kills. I wasn't impressed at all with the sound of the Line 6 cab.

[Jax]

Originally Posted by smoore98

Here are the results in detail. Please let me know what you think:

******//nashvillewannabe.blogspot.com...t-testing.html

Thanks,
Scott

IMHO:

The avatar 4x12 with the 57 sounds clearer although more fizzy than the L6 4x12. However, the lows and mids are fuller with the L6. Detail is better with the avatar 4x12.

All 121 examples were too muddy and indistinct by comparison. If they combine well with the 57 tracks, I'd say go for it.

The Alnico tracks would be a great compliment to the above sounds, panned hard LR or some other more creative combination.

Anyway, from what I can tell, the avatar cabs are certainly up to the task. They don't sound better or worse to me than the L6, just different. And that sound will probably change over time somewhat. I'd expect it to get darker and a little more middy as the speakers settle in.

It would be interesting to hear some heavier styles being pounded out of the Avatars. I'm wondering how they hold up to high gain chunka-chunka and squealies.

I'd have no issues with buying an Avatar cab or two.

Thanks for the follow-up!

[Jack Pettit]

Avatar cabinets are a great value.

If you can't sound good with the Hellatones than you might want to
consider the fact that speakers are not your problem.

[Curtis Franklin]

I just wanted to chime in on avatar.

My bass player just bought an Ashdown MAG600R and also an Avatar NEO 210.

The build quality of the cab is excellent. The cab responds well to the amp's eq, and we are expecting it to break in a little soon. (We just got it last night).

Avatar speakers do it RIGHT!!!!

[jspartz]

Just thought I would drop a note as well. I just bought a used 2 x 12 avatar cabinet (from someone on craigslist) that was so new it still needed to be broken in. After a couple of hours doing the break in I have started to hear it sing. It is the G212H Special with a Celestion V30 and G12H30 (open back). I am using my Univalve with it and when I turn up the Uni a bit it comes to life. Very nice.

Jason

[usamike]

Look into a 2x10 or 4x10 open back. I recently traded for a matchless 2x10 and it has breathed new life into a lot of my amps. It's a totally different sound.

[everybody's x]

I've been using hellatones in my jcm800 slant for several months now. Very smooth and way less muddy/shrill than the stock 75's. Dave's a nice guy and the deal I got on 4 of them was silly.
AVATAR RULES!

[smoore98]

Just wanted to post an update. I have ordered the Randall MTS stuff (RM4, 8 modules, and an RT2/50) so I think I am set for guitar tones, and it should be much better than the Epi Valve Juniors. I have also ordered a Chandler TG-2 Pre to match it with the Royer 121. With this set up I should be able to tell if the Avatars are really doing it for me and I will make more samples that will allow better judging of the differences. I cannot bring myself to get rid of the Line 6. I now have both cabs with 2 epi's and 2 hotplates running side by side and I like BOTH sounds. They are very different and they actually blend very well. Its a unique sound actually. I have noticed that the Avatar 4X12 sounds much better when you get it really cranked up, but I still hear more of the higher end sizzle and I am not sure that will work for every situation - which is why I want to keep the Line6 around. Perhaps I like crappy sounds, I don't know...



But at any rate, in the next couple of weeks I should have some REALLY good samples to judge by.

[smoore98]

OK, got the TG2 in. Man, what a difference. I already love this thing. I have the Abbey road edition with the summing option.

Check out the file I uploaded in this post as as an attachment.

Last night I stuck a 121 in front of both cabinets and did this little riff thing twice. Both are first takes. This took like 10 minutes total to put together so its not that great. I had both cabs running the same setup - an Epi Valve JR. No effects, no pedals, same volume settings. I used THD hotplate on both at the same volume settings. Had to bring them down to a reasonable level because it was at night. I sure these would have sounded better fully cranked. But I think you can now hear the sound differences I am talking about.

Pan left and right while playing this back. Do you hear the top end buzz of the avatar and the mid range of the Line6. When they hit together it sounds very full to me.

What do you think of the sound differences?

[FFTT]

It's a bit late to advise you since you already spent your money,

but I would have gone for a convertable back switching cabinet

that allowed you to select open or closed back operating and how many speakers

and which type you wanted to run.

Running a low power Class A amp like the Valve Jr., I would have gone for a switchable
2X10, 4X10 or 2X12 cabinet with a variety of better speakers.

[smoore98]

FFTT I am not sure I understand. These are G12H30's and V30's we are talking about. How much better of a speaker would I need to get? My 2X12 - although closed back - has Alnico Blues in them. These are some of the best speakers Celestion has ever made (at least according to my research). Can you be more specific on the speaker types?

I could still get open backs and 4X10's, but the Epi is just being used for reference to get across my thought on how the cabinet sounds vary. My point is that I actually like the Line6. Everyone I speak to about this in the guitar world tells me I do not know what a good cabinet sounds like and that could be true. I read all this stuff about the Avatars and I just don't know if I am hearing the same thing as all the other folks. Its not that they are bad, its just not what I was expecting.

I was just wondering if you could hear the difference and if that Avatar is as I described? It sounds like you can hear a high end buzz on the top frequencies that seperates it from the original tones and especially the bass. It is as if there are two seperate tones being played at once and the mids are missing. Not sure why I hear that. The Line6 actually sounds warmer but lacks high end and I do not know why I a digging that better. Perhaps this will all change when I get them cranked and the speaker moving around really kicks in. Perhaps the Avatars open up under higher volumes and the Line6 sounds better at lower volumes.

I have the Randall MTS stuff in now, which will be my main recording rig (I have the RT 2/50 and 8 of the modules). The EVJ's are just additional toys. I plan to add an Orange Tiny Terror next.

But the point is that these these G12H30's are the same thing Michael Wagener is using (in fact I am trying to model all the stuff he used on the King's X Ogretones album by getting as close as possible to it).

Can anyone else hear what I am describing?

Scott

[FFTT]

For obvious reasons there is going to be a wide difference of opinion of which speakers
sound the best for which application.

Celestion Blues break a bit early for my tastes, but many lead players love them.
I personally need something that can handle more than 15 watts.

Vintage 30's are better for clean headroom and later break-up and so are Jensens.

I'm looking into Tone Tubby Hemp Cone Alnicos and Weber Thames as a mix for sweetness and clarity.

The cabinet design that interests me the most right now is Doug's at Vintone.
His 2X10, 2X12 and 4X10 V front switching cabinet and his Convert-A-Back


This stuff is high end custom, but that's where Im headed.

******//www.vintone.com/convert.html

[img]******//www.vintone.com/co3b.jpg[/img]

******//www.vintone.com/vfront.html
[img]******//www.vintone.com/vf5.jpg[/img]
[img]******//www.vintone.com/si40.jpg[/img]
[img]******//www.vintone.com/si41b.jpg[/img]

I also like the oval backs designed by rawoods.
******//www.rawoods.com/2x12%20Blk%20...e/MVC-832S.JPG


For closed back, I also like the solid wood Tone-Tools ported cabinets.

You don't have to go this hi end for a cabinet, but for ultimate in versatility, being able to select
between 1, 2 or 4 speakers in your cabinet and being able to run closed or open back just makes
sense for studio applications. At least in my view.

I'd rather put my money into to one exceptional cabinet rather than buying 3.

You can argue all day about who makes the finest speakers.

I need a cabinet that can handle guitar and bass at low volumes
even if that means switching out speakers.

Solid wood mahogany for tone and weight.

I'm really starting to lean towards that 4X10
with a pair of Tone Tubby's mixed with Webers, Jensen?
or maybe a Vintage 30.

If you want the best BLUE alnico sound especially for low wattage Class A
I'd get at least one Tone Tubby and allow it to blend with another speaker
choose one.

The great thing about the Valve Jr is that you have impedence selection
so you can run 4,8,16 Ohms.

I'm thinking about going for one of Doug's AC30TB circuits
with the Paragon works. That's talking $2500.00 for the head alone.
I'm not sure if he can do it or not, but I may have that set up for
half power Class A options, so there's a good possibilty that this amp might
go as high as $3000.00

I want a cabinet that matches that quality.

I can chase around and settle for lesser configurations,
but in my view, saving up for the best I can afford
has always paid off.

I've been spend an BUNCH trying to get my gear up to snuff
and it's far from over.

Still need a practice PA
new mixing console
PA speakers
cables etc.

New Nearfields

A Les Paul something
An ES335

and a nice Tele'

we'll see

[smoore98]

OK, at least I now understand what you meant. These kind of speakers and cabs I would not have any interest in, but now we know what you would prefer.

Back to the subject at hand you never answered the other part of my questions about the avatar cabinet and the sound clip and the difference between the two cabinets. Can you explain what I am hearing?

Scott