Fender Princeton '57 -- Pic -- Orig. Speaker???

Gregg Sartiano · 28th December 2006, 11:37 PM

There are no codes on the rim. The back has "584013" above "232942."

The amp is re-covered, and the transformers are (supposedly) original. Did they ever do a speaker like this? Is this original? Maybe? Definitely not?

The amp is a 1957.

(The paper is just a piece of paper in the back and is not attached to/stuck on the amp!).

James Wilsey · 4th January 2007, 04:30 PM

I use the Fender amp field guide for reference....

http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/index.html

Seems as if they used three different speaker mfrs during that era, but I have never seen and original Fender amp speaker that looked like that.

I'm guessing replacement...

maxy · 9th January 2007, 11:58 AM

It looks real to me. I'm no expert but I was using a friend of mines 57-59 and I think it had a speaker like that. It was original in that amp.

Jan Folkson · 9th January 2007, 04:19 PM

Not to take anything away from the folks here but if you ask over at http://www.thegearpage.net you'll be able to get the answer.

pan60 · 9th January 2007, 05:39 PM

dose not look original to me: (
it is not a 220 ( Jensen ), 137 ( CTS ), or a 465 ( Oxford ).
so i would go with no not original.
that is a 232 ( Magnavox ) probably a 1969 made the 42 week of.
hope that helps.

Gregg Sartiano · 9th January 2007, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan60

that is a 232 ( Magnavox ) probably a 1969 made the 42 week of.
hope that helps.

Yeah, that's what I came up with when I was searching. I'm gonna have it looked at sometime soon, and then I should get a positive answer.

If it's not original, what should I use for a replacement? I like the sound of it, but I know a great session player who put a greenback celestion in a '65 (?) Deluxe and it is the tightest sounding amp EVER -- no rattles or strange noises...that's really what I'm looking for here. There is a little mechanical rattling somewhere in the box, and I think the speaker is cool sounding but a little "loose" and grungy, for lack of a better term. Yes, I know it's part of the amp's tone, but it goes just a little too far beyond the usual tweed "grimy." And besides, if it's not original, I have no problem throwing another speaker in there. 8" low-wattage speakers aren't that expensive anyway.

I could use a 1x10 or 1x12 cabinet for the same purpose. Any recommendations on that? 8 ohms, right?

pan60 · 9th January 2007, 07:08 PM

i put some new P-10's in my 54 super at first i did not like them but after a few months they were fine.
you might try a jensen C8
i am not sure if they were 4 ohm or 8 ohm.
i will have to but i may have a good vintage 8'' jensen send me a email if you want me to look.

maxy · 13th January 2007, 01:15 AM

tweed princetons are 4 ohm. My tech told me when I was trying to find a replacement speaker for mine. I ended up selling it before I ever got around to it.
I did use an extention speaker cab and that worked great, I recoment trying that first. The problem may not be the speaker.

Good luck.

whitepapagold · 25th January 2007, 12:46 PM

Definitely not original speaker. I found mine to be an oxford but it sounds decent. I would look at the Jensen replacement for reliability. Otherwise, keep an eye out on ebay, the originals pop up on occassion. An original just makes it more fun....

Im still going nuts for my 59 and Ive had it for months now! I don't know what you like in pedals but Ive been going crazy for the old script MXRs. The strat , MXRs, and princeton get along incredibly well! I just got my final MXR pedal- 1973???(the pots are 73 but I thought they were made 74-77) distortion +. I went nuts and bought all old script Bud Box versions of the dyna comp, phase 90, and distortion +. Also got a script phase 45. I couldn't be happier. They really destroy most of the other pedals Ive used. And through the princeton- tracking is unreal!

Now, I want a brownie princeton to run stereo.........

whitepapagold · 25th January 2007, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxy

tweed princetons are 4 ohm.

And this is actually incorrect. They are 8 ohms. The amp is 4 1/2 watts, I bet thats the confusion( where the 4 came from).

Jensen offers 2 replacement speakers. Cheap and mid range if I remember correctly.

Gregg Sartiano · 29th January 2007, 08:36 PM

Yeah, we've tracked it a bunch. I brought it to the Gearslutz NAMM after-party -- everybody was diggin' it. I put a Fisher-branded Telefunken 12AX7 in there -- big difference! I think James Lugo played it more than I did...

It gets grimy really quickly when you track it -- for anything truly clean, I have to keep it down to 3 or so -- on a scale of 12 (yeah, tweed! That's two more than ten!), and at that level, it's just not pushing a lot of air. Of course, you click the Neve up a notch and then it's as loud as you want it in the mix...

whitepapagold · 29th January 2007, 09:02 PM

Thats why you put a 5751 instead of the 12ax7!!!! It will stay clean WAY longer! I just put my RCA 5751 command in and its wonderful. Ive been using an old 50s Brimar 12ax7 long plate but switched just to clean it up!!! Stays wonderfully clean when you turn it up (for a tweed that is!)

you might get to 5 or 6 before breakup begins.

Plus I put a Bendix in the 6v6 instead of my RCA and its way more even- spectrum wise. I have an RCA that sounds buttery but the Bendix adds to the clarity.

Seriously, get a 5751(low gain 12ax7). Once you pop it in youll see!

Gregg Sartiano · 31st January 2007, 10:52 PM

Where do you get your tubes?

whitepapagold · 1st February 2007, 01:13 AM

The 5751 I got on Ebay, they are FREAKIN expensive otherwise. Especially the RCA 5751 command- Im really happy with the tone though and it was around 20 bucks. Ebay can be risky though and the "test results" they give aren't always telling of reality.

The Bendix I got from Brent Jesse
http://www.audiotubes.com/

Im REALLY happy with the service there. The first Bendix I bought was a little noisey and after almost 3 months was popping terribly. Brent took great care of me and Im loving the replacement. It was past warranty but he stood by his product!

I bought the RCA rectifier and Brimar 12ax7 from Tube Monger
http://www.tubemonger.com/
No problems there either. Fast and exactly what was described.

I went crazy with tubes after I switched the 12ax7 the first time. I ended up replacing everything(5y3, 6v6, and 12ax7),which meant I had to wait for some break-in to hear the real tone, but I am very glad I did. I still throw in the RCA grey plate 6v6gt and Brimar black long plate 12ax7 for flavor. Its subtle but definitely there. The brimar and 5751 are night and day but thats a gain issue as well as a tube issue.

The Bendix was a purchase I did JUST to see what the fuss was all about. Its really an amazing sounding tube BUT the RCA is also wonderful but seemed wooly and less spacial. All of this mentality is a big debate but I definitely heard a change- I guess its if you care or not! Im willing to pay for the chance to find a gem- and regardless of the stats- they all ARE NOT GEMS!

If you can, collect a bunch of different tubes. They all can sound different, even the exact same ones! My brother is an electrical engineer and he has been working with me on this stuff on the side(thank god

). He put it best- Tubes are a black art.

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28th December 2006, 11:37 PM	#1
Gregg Sartiano Lives for gear Join Date: May 2004 Location: Lost Angeles Posts: 1,781	Fender Princeton '57 -- Pic -- Orig. Speaker??? There are no codes on the rim. The back has "584013" above "232942." The amp is re-covered, and the transformers are (supposedly) original. Did they ever do a speaker like this? Is this original? Maybe? Definitely not? The amp is a 1957. (The paper is just a piece of paper in the back and is not attached to/stuck on the amp!). Attached Thumbnails __________________ "We need to legitimize peer-to-peer sharing as a business model, because it's already a business. If [the P2P companies] are going to make money on us, we should have a chance to make money along with them." -- Perry Farrell on the failure of national intellectual property policy to keep up with the rapid evolution of online media "Every Internet transmission of a musical work constitutes a public performance of that work. " http://www.ascap.com/weblicense/webfaq.html

9th January 2007, 04:19 PM	#4
Jan Folkson Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NYC, NY Posts: 621	Not to take anything away from the folks here but if you ask over at http://www.thegearpage.net you'll be able to get the answer. __________________ - Jan Folkson www.janfolkson.com If you can't make it good, the least you can do is make it perfect.

9th January 2007, 05:39 PM	#5
pan60 500 series nutjob Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: 500 series Guru SKANK! ; ) Posts: 6,238	dose not look original to me: ( it is not a 220 ( Jensen ), 137 ( CTS ), or a 465 ( Oxford ). so i would go with no not original. that is a 232 ( Magnavox ) probably a 1969 made the 42 week of. hope that helps. __________________ www.pan60.com A CHARTER MEMBER OF THE LA, MAFIA where is LA? IF YOU ARE NOT INTO THE 500 FORMAT, THEN YOU'RE JUST JEALOUS! quote: your secret identity is safe with me superman! Peter Montessi it is easy to sound as though one was endowed with great intelligence, whilst speaking amongst a crowd of total morons

9th January 2007, 07:08 PM	#7
pan60 500 series nutjob Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: 500 series Guru SKANK! ; ) Posts: 6,238	i put some new P-10's in my 54 super at first i did not like them but after a few months they were fine. you might try a jensen C8 i am not sure if they were 4 ohm or 8 ohm. i will have to but i may have a good vintage 8'' jensen send me a email if you want me to look. __________________ www.pan60.com A CHARTER MEMBER OF THE LA, MAFIA where is LA? IF YOU ARE NOT INTO THE 500 FORMAT, THEN YOU'RE JUST JEALOUS! quote: your secret identity is safe with me superman! Peter Montessi it is easy to sound as though one was endowed with great intelligence, whilst speaking amongst a crowd of total morons

4th January 2007, 04:30 PM	#2
James Wilsey Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Hilbilly Hollywood Posts: 57	I use the Fender amp field guide for reference.... http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/index.html Seems as if they used three different speaker mfrs during that era, but I have never seen and original Fender amp speaker that looked like that. I'm guessing replacement...

9th January 2007, 11:58 AM	#3
maxy Gear nut Join Date: May 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 81	It looks real to me. I'm no expert but I was using a friend of mines 57-59 and I think it had a speaker like that. It was original in that amp.

13th January 2007, 01:15 AM	#8
maxy Gear nut Join Date: May 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 81	tweed princetons are 4 ohm. My tech told me when I was trying to find a replacement speaker for mine. I ended up selling it before I ever got around to it. I did use an extention speaker cab and that worked great, I recoment trying that first. The problem may not be the speaker. Good luck.

25th January 2007, 12:46 PM	#9
whitepapagold Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Newport Beach, California Posts: 932	Definitely not original speaker. I found mine to be an oxford but it sounds decent. I would look at the Jensen replacement for reliability. Otherwise, keep an eye out on ebay, the originals pop up on occassion. An original just makes it more fun.... Im still going nuts for my 59 and Ive had it for months now! I don't know what you like in pedals but Ive been going crazy for the old script MXRs. The strat , MXRs, and princeton get along incredibly well! I just got my final MXR pedal- 1973???(the pots are 73 but I thought they were made 74-77) distortion +. I went nuts and bought all old script Bud Box versions of the dyna comp, phase 90, and distortion +. Also got a script phase 45. I couldn't be happier. They really destroy most of the other pedals Ive used. And through the princeton- tracking is unreal! Now, I want a brownie princeton to run stereo.........

29th January 2007, 08:36 PM	#11
Gregg Sartiano Lives for gear Join Date: May 2004 Location: Lost Angeles Posts: 1,781	Yeah, we've tracked it a bunch. I brought it to the Gearslutz NAMM after-party -- everybody was diggin' it. I put a Fisher-branded Telefunken 12AX7 in there -- big difference! I think James Lugo played it more than I did... It gets grimy really quickly when you track it -- for anything truly clean, I have to keep it down to 3 or so -- on a scale of 12 (yeah, tweed! That's two more than ten!), and at that level, it's just not pushing a lot of air. Of course, you click the Neve up a notch and then it's as loud as you want it in the mix... __________________ "We need to legitimize peer-to-peer sharing as a business model, because it's already a business. If [the P2P companies] are going to make money on us, we should have a chance to make money along with them." -- Perry Farrell on the failure of national intellectual property policy to keep up with the rapid evolution of online media "Every Internet transmission of a musical work constitutes a public performance of that work. " http://www.ascap.com/weblicense/webfaq.html

29th January 2007, 09:02 PM	#12
whitepapagold Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Newport Beach, California Posts: 932	Thats why you put a 5751 instead of the 12ax7!!!! It will stay clean WAY longer! I just put my RCA 5751 command in and its wonderful. Ive been using an old 50s Brimar 12ax7 long plate but switched just to clean it up!!! Stays wonderfully clean when you turn it up (for a tweed that is!) you might get to 5 or 6 before breakup begins. Plus I put a Bendix in the 6v6 instead of my RCA and its way more even- spectrum wise. I have an RCA that sounds buttery but the Bendix adds to the clarity. Seriously, get a 5751(low gain 12ax7). Once you pop it in youll see!

31st January 2007, 10:52 PM	#13
Gregg Sartiano Lives for gear Join Date: May 2004 Location: Lost Angeles Posts: 1,781	Where do you get your tubes? __________________ "We need to legitimize peer-to-peer sharing as a business model, because it's already a business. If [the P2P companies] are going to make money on us, we should have a chance to make money along with them." -- Perry Farrell on the failure of national intellectual property policy to keep up with the rapid evolution of online media "Every Internet transmission of a musical work constitutes a public performance of that work. " http://www.ascap.com/weblicense/webfaq.html

1st February 2007, 01:13 AM	#14
whitepapagold Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Newport Beach, California Posts: 932	The 5751 I got on Ebay, they are FREAKIN expensive otherwise. Especially the RCA 5751 command- Im really happy with the tone though and it was around 20 bucks. Ebay can be risky though and the "test results" they give aren't always telling of reality. The Bendix I got from Brent Jesse http://www.audiotubes.com/ Im REALLY happy with the service there. The first Bendix I bought was a little noisey and after almost 3 months was popping terribly. Brent took great care of me and Im loving the replacement. It was past warranty but he stood by his product! I bought the RCA rectifier and Brimar 12ax7 from Tube Monger http://www.tubemonger.com/ No problems there either. Fast and exactly what was described. I went crazy with tubes after I switched the 12ax7 the first time. I ended up replacing everything(5y3, 6v6, and 12ax7),which meant I had to wait for some break-in to hear the real tone, but I am very glad I did. I still throw in the RCA grey plate 6v6gt and Brimar black long plate 12ax7 for flavor. Its subtle but definitely there. The brimar and 5751 are night and day but thats a gain issue as well as a tube issue. The Bendix was a purchase I did JUST to see what the fuss was all about. Its really an amazing sounding tube BUT the RCA is also wonderful but seemed wooly and less spacial. All of this mentality is a big debate but I definitely heard a change- I guess its if you care or not! Im willing to pay for the chance to find a gem- and regardless of the stats- they all ARE NOT GEMS! If you can, collect a bunch of different tubes. They all can sound different, even the exact same ones! My brother is an electrical engineer and he has been working with me on this stuff on the side(thank god ). He put it best- Tubes are a black art.

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