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#31
21st December 2012
Old 21st December 2012
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoFi_By_Choice View Post
"I got a tanning salon on the second floor of my home. No, there is no door directly to the salon... gotta go through the living room, but the dogs won't bite anyone... much..."
Hey at least the insured is being honest!
#32
21st December 2012
Old 21st December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greggybud View Post
Hey at least the insured is being honest!
I promise you, that happened. But it was far more glamorous, not only did the wife own the tanning salon, but her husband ran a garage on the first floor. Small town where there was no zoning, so no objection to living above the garage legally. But last I knew they still had found no carrier willing to take on that risk.

Had a homeowner's once, same general geographic area. Went to the property to get photos... it was a trailer propped on columns literally 16 cinderblocks upward in the front, and two cinderblocks upward in the back!
They invited me in to get photos, and I just said, No it's okay, I think I've gotten all I need from this angle. I wouldn't have put a cigarette down in that place for fear of it toppling over...
#33
21st December 2012
Old 21st December 2012
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoFi_By_Choice View Post
Yes, unfortunately most people don't understand insurance in general. It is the one thing people buy in hopes they'll never need it, so some don't bother to understand it until they actually do need it. Then, they think they are getting the big donkey punch.

It's much better (it should go without saying) to understand this stuff BEFORE you sign the dotted line, and far in advance of actually needing it.
Not to go tit for tat with you but this is exactly why insurance leaves such a bad taste in everyones mouth. You need an attorney to walk you through the damn paper work! Its also impossible to go through every scenario with the agent as you suggest.

"Am I covered for this or that?"

"What happens if I`m in a car accident and a plane lands on my head? Who needs to cover the medical expenses?"

"What if my wife has a heart attack while shes eating something I cooked? Am I covered or can she sue me?"

Come on mate. The truth is the insurance companies are in business for themselves, just like pharmaceuticals and bankers! If everyone looked out for each other, theres more than enough to go around and I dare say, the world would be a nicer place because guess what... No one would feel like they`re getting screwed.
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#34
21st December 2012
Old 21st December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Buckley View Post
Not to go tit for tat with you but this is exactly why insurance leaves such a bad taste in everyones mouth. You need an attorney to walk you through the damn paper work! Its also impossible to go through every scenario with the agent as you suggest.

"Am I covered for this or that?"

"What happens if I`m in a car accident and a plane lands on my head? Who needs to cover the medical expenses?"

"What if my wife has a heart attack while shes eating something I cooked? Am I covered or can she sue me?"

Come on mate. The truth is the insurance companies are in business for themselves, just like pharmaceuticals and bankers! If everyone looked out for each other, theres more than enough to go around and I dare say, the world would be a nicer place because guess what... No one would feel like they`re getting screwed.
I hear you. There are millions of scenarios that could unfold. I don't want to have a sparring match with you either. However, there are a lot of folks on this board who are either so young they've not yet realized that insurance is a good thing to have, or simply are confused, or are jaded by the system. I (and presumably the other two gentlemen who have chipped in on the conversation) am trying to help people think of things they may not have thought of, so you won't be feeling "screwed".

For example, there was a post earlier about a person living on the 7th floor and having FLOOD INSURANCE. First, the person is mistaken, I believe. I would think that the policy covers WATER DAMAGE, which is not synonymous with FLOOD DAMAGE. A lot of people are not aware of that, and maybe that is why we have some angry people saying "The insurance company won't pay out on my water damage claim, but I got FLOODED, MAN!" (my words).

I know that it does not take an attorney to understand a policy, because:
1) I am not an attorney and I passed the law portion of the state exam just fine.
2) Policies are not worded to purposely confuse. State law mandates that the policy explain EXACTLY what is covered, verbatim.
3) If the policy doesn't satisfactorily answer your concerns, the agent MUST BY LAW explain to you EXACTLY how you are covered. If you feel that your agent is not treating you on the up-and-up, FIND A NEW ONE.

I am not saying go in with an encyclopedia full of questions, rack your brain for 12 months thinking of all scenarios (What if aliens come into my studio and throw some crazy Wookie party, trash the joint? Am I covered from Wookie hair clogging the faders?).

What I AM saying is ask the following:
1) Does this protect me from floods?
2) Am I covered in the event of a hurricane? Or tropical storm/depression?
3) Is my stuff covered even if I LIVE at the same address? What if I earn taxable income from using my "hobby studio"?
4) IF NOT, please explain to me how I CAN be covered, and let's discuss some riders/policies that WILL cover me.

The worst thing people can do is just sign a paper after paying the cheapest amount possible and then find out when it's too late that they weren't really covered from what they were most concerned about.

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#35
21st December 2012
Old 21st December 2012
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I guess I can equate insurance to a studio scenario, actually.

Client: Record me. (Waving money in the air)
RE: Ok... what are you trying to achieve?
Client: I want to be on a CD. (Waving money in the air)
RE: Ok... we can do that. What is it, exactly, that you want to sound like? Super clear? Spacey? LoFi? Maybe...
Client: I want to be on a CD. Take my money, let's get to business!
RE: Ok... I think we maybe should consider...
Client: It all good. I want to be on a CD. TAKE MY MONEY. Hurry up though, I gotta walk my dog in a few hours.

(two hours later)
RE: All right. Here is your CD. Have fun walking your dog. If you want to do a bit more, you know, get the "sound" you're looking for, just call. We'll set something up.
Client: No it's all good. This is all I wanted. To be on a CD. SWEEEEET!

Client: Hey, why don't I sound like the guys on the radio??? WHAT A RIPOFF!!! Screw the recording industry, they're a bunch of greedy sharks!!!
#36
21st December 2012
Old 21st December 2012
  #36
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No I do have a flood policy but to be honest IT is not a federal but through Lloyds in case
any gear or anything else is either in the first floor garage or out on rental or loan.
The only things I felt screwed on in my IKE claim was a Guitar and a 414eb that were out on loan and were not covered!

Also MO law according to what I have learned so far is not clear as to how a storm that Would Cause water Damage Via the Large Windows of my loft so $60 a month extra means no matter what I'm covered ( lesson 1 post Katrina even though 99 .9precent of flood insurance is federal there is no universal standard of what is flood and what water damage is not)!
I am used to spending close to 3-4k a year on Insurance not count ing med or car so 2k for pretty much bullet proof coverage is a bargain!
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#37
21st December 2012
Old 21st December 2012
  #37
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PDC pm me If you share some details I might know some people who might be able to help, no promises but it can't hurt!
#38
22nd December 2012
Old 22nd December 2012
  #38
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Grey Bud and Lofi thanks for all the info and insight . I am glad a read this post - thanks - Ariel
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#39
22nd December 2012
Old 22nd December 2012
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Buckley View Post
this is exactly why insurance leaves such a bad taste in everyones mouth. You need an attorney to walk you through the damn paper work! Its also impossible to go through every scenario with the agent as you suggest.

"Am I covered for this or that?"

"What happens if I`m in a car accident and a plane lands on my head? Who needs to cover the medical expenses?"

"What if my wife has a heart attack while shes eating something I cooked? Am I covered or can she sue me?"

Come on mate. The truth is the insurance companies are in business for themselves, just like pharmaceuticals and bankers! If everyone looked out for each other, theres more than enough to go around and I dare say, the world would be a nicer place because guess what... No one would feel like they`re getting screwed.
Actually most people are satisfied. If your kitchen pipe broke and flooded your kitchen floor, which is one of the most common claims, would you rant & rave about how you got a new kitchen floor paid by insurance? Most people don't do that. Negative experiences are the ones people talk about.

If you don't understand anything in your policy, sit down with an agent. As mentioned policies are written in accordance with state law. They are not written to try and confuse you. Might I suggest the reality is that it's a long boring contract, and one you might never need or want to read? Of course if your home burns down it may not be so boring and you might become very interested?

Other than sudden and accidental water claims, ask your agent about other common claims. A good agent can easily tell you, and statistically if you have a claim it will be a common claim such as water, theft, fire etc.

Of course the insurance companies are in business to make money as well as pharmaceuticals and bankers. These businesses are not inherently evil and greedy like the media sometimes portrays them. There is good and bad in most all business.

"If everyone looked out for each other, theres more than enough to go around and I dare say, the world would be a nicer place because guess what... No one would feel like they`re getting screwed."---If you mean government intervention, you really need to take that issue to another forum!
#40
25th December 2012
Old 25th December 2012
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoFi_By_Choice View Post
At risk of being banned, I have to chime in on this:

This is intended to be basic info, not a bash against anyone, especially disaster victims. This is all just from my personal experience:

I used to sell insurance. Mostly auto, but some homeowners and renters also. No life or health.

The number one mistake that most people make when buying insurance is going for the lowest possible premium. Some people seem to think that "It will never happen to me" so why pay a higher premium than absolutely necessary? A few people seem to think that insurance is like the lottery ($1 in for a $1Mil payout).

I cannot stress enough that when your agent/underwriter tries to explain the benefits of NOT going with the bottom tier plan, you as a paying customer should listen and request ALL information in writing.

Most policies cover items on a "replacement cost" basis. Depreciation is in the formula. It is generally irrelevant how much you paid for an item. This is why two items that are identical can be valued differently with two different policies. If the company can find records of being able to replace a Massive Passive for $1000, that is what they will pay you. If your gear is 6 months older than the neighbor's gear, it will be valued accordingly.

Always over-shoot your coverage when it comes to gear. If you think it will cost $30K to replace your stuff, insure it for $50k. The difference in premium will usually surprise you with how little it really is.

Most importantly, express your concerns when getting the policy issued. Think of all of the worst case scenarios. Ask direct questions. Get it in writing.

Good luck to everyone.

If you sell something in ebay and it is different from the description or omit defects, your buyer opens a claim with paypal to get the money back, if you,seller, agree, then that's ok, if you don't.. then you are violating the law

Insurance companies and bankers constantly omit important things, while doing reassuring faces, big smiles, hoping that you'll be ignorant enough to trust them. Usually they appear the most respectable men, reassuring you in any way they can to dissuade you from reading the contract

First time you need something you are on your own (moving lawyers, paying other money to get what's yours)

Using ebays rules and laws applied to who scam people, their behavior is simply illegal

At least that's my opinion

Then you, considering you sold insurance, are you actually proud of yourself about having done that?

To me it is a question of conscience

I'd prefer to be a thief, at least it would mean I have the guts to take my responsibilities if I get caught, instead being protected by the law for a much bigger fraud: taking advantage of people whom have lost their houses, their loves, jobs, precious things, human beings

I'd never be able to watch myself to the mirror
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#41
25th December 2012
Old 25th December 2012
  #41
WKG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elan View Post
If you sell something in ebay and it is different from the description or omit defects, your buyer opens a claim with paypal to get the money back, if you,seller, agree, then that's ok, if you don't.. then you are violating the law

Insurance companies and bankers constantly omit important things, while doing reassuring faces, big smiles, hoping that you'll be ignorant enough to trust them. Usually they appear the most respectable men, reassuring you in any way they can to dissuade you from reading the contract

First time you need something you are on your own (moving lawyers, paying other money to get what's yours)

Using ebays rules and laws applied to who scam people, their behavior is simply illegal

At least that's my opinion

Then you, considering you sold insurance, are you actually proud of yourself about having done that?

To me it is a question of conscience

I'd prefer to be a thief, at least it would mean I have the guts to take my responsibilities if I get caught, instead being protected by the law for a much bigger fraud: taking advantage of people whom have lost their houses, their loves, jobs, precious things, human beings

I'd never be able to watch myself to the mirror
I sold insurance for 6 years, 3 of those with a major carrier. I never did what you insinuate and was never instructed or trained to do so, it was quite the opposite. What I can tell you is that as an agent I daily found myself in situations where people did not want to accept anything but the bare minimum responsibility of planning for provision in the event of loss. No matter how many times or how effectively explained the policy, provisions and coverage parameters they wanted the bare minimum. As an adjuster I experience first hand on a nearly daily basis the results of those decisions. Usually those are the people who make the same sort of accusations you are making.

I am not saying there aren't crooks, there certainly are, but it is really misleading to paint with such a broad brush. And actually you would be better off if a dishonest agent was to blame, you'd have clear legal recourse. There's nothing you can do for a person who just didn't want the responsibility to prepare, which sadly enough, is the majority of situations.
#42
25th December 2012
Old 25th December 2012
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elan View Post
If you sell something in ebay and it is different from the description or omit defects, your buyer opens a claim with paypal to get the money back, if you,seller, agree, then that's ok, if you don't.. then you are violating the law

Insurance companies and bankers constantly omit important things, while doing reassuring faces, big smiles, hoping that you'll be ignorant enough to trust them. Usually they appear the most respectable men, reassuring you in any way they can to dissuade you from reading the contract

First time you need something you are on your own (moving lawyers, paying other money to get what's yours)

Using ebays rules and laws applied to who scam people, their behavior is simply illegal

At least that's my opinion

Then you, considering you sold insurance, are you actually proud of yourself about having done that?

To me it is a question of conscience

I'd prefer to be a thief, at least it would mean I have the guts to take my responsibilities if I get caught, instead being protected by the law for a much bigger fraud: taking advantage of people whom have lost their houses, their loves, jobs, precious things, human beings

I'd never be able to watch myself to the mirror
This is simply awful to post, and irresponsible. First of all, I very much encouraged people to know exactly what they were buying. I would read (Actually READ ALOUD) the policies I sold to people because 90% didn't want to read it for themselves. I would not allow anyone to leave the office with a policy until they had initialled the policy after every point discussed with them.

Why would an agent "want" to end up in a lawsuit that they most likely will lose?? I went over the policies as my own first-step in defending accusations of misleading customers (I was never accused of misleading anyone).

You are discouraging people from buying insurance, which in a public forum centering around "investment property" and "business property" is almost a no-brainer to buy.

Your ebay example is a poor analogy in my opinion. We are not talking about telling someone that they are buying $1 million coverage and then "switching out" to lower coverage without their knowing. That may happen in isolated incidents and believe me it is dealt with in a heavy handed manner by the states.

The ebay analogy would be better described as "The customer sees a picture of bike with a nice saddlebag, and they didn't read the part about only bidding on the saddlebag. The saddlebag arrives, bought for $100. Now the customer is mad that they didn't get the Harley for $100. But the seller clearly showed the Harley in the photo. Customer then goes back to the ad and sees clearly written in LARGE TYPE "ONLY BIDDING ON SADDLE BAG".

What a ripoff, right? Wrong. Would any reasonable person believe that they would get a Harley for $100? Did they not read the ad? Is it the seller's fault that the customer didn't read the ad? No, no and no.

From your argument, if I bid on a guitar pictured in someone's living room with a 50-inch TV in the background, I should get the TV AND the Squier Strat for $75? Maybe the carpet and a couple cans of paint, too? I hope the kid's not in the photo!

Come on. Buyer responsibility is not dead.

Paypal would not be issuing a refund because the buyer did not "know" what they were buying. It was there, in plain view, to be read.
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#43
25th December 2012
Old 25th December 2012
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoFi_By_Choice View Post
and irresponsible.
Why?

I have described exactly what happened to me all the time I needed a an insurance and/or a bank.

I repeat ALL THE TIME. Otherwise I wouldn't generalize. And I'm sort of young, if I look at my parents or friends of my parents, experiences... then I see no difference between mafia and such other categories that are protected by the law.

Banks here can ask you even 70% more of the loan you requested and a propriety of the double they can expropriate if you can't pay, mafia asks much less.

When you have to pay they almost propose you to walk your dog for you, when they have to pay they are well organized, well prepared, to tell you bullshit, you don't buy them? They have all kind off bullshit depending on your social level, status, knowledge and so on... so they change the bullshit until you buy them or you give up.

Last time I had to get the money, after all the bullshit, they told me... well you can go to the layer... but, because of one of those policies, my only option was to use the lawyer agreed upon the insurance... who told me, yeah... you are totally right, but it is almost impossible you'll win the trial... they have big money and are not scared to use all the needed to win.

No insurance company loses one trial in my country, unless the other part is bigger or has more money, then them... which restrict the case quite a lot.

All the clauses, the parts written so small that are barely readable for me (while for older people appear just like a layout line) are there to make insurances sure they will win any kind of trial.

You call me irresponsible? I'm describing situations. The experiences I got and the ones of people close to me, have created in me the opinion they are criminal and the most coward ones.

Oh... you call me irresponsible because I can dissuade people in buying insurance? If I had that power I would do much more important things to change the world instead ranting in a forum, who do you think would care about what I'm writing here? I'm no one.

Oh, another thing... in my country you cannot decide to not pay insurance.
So there's not even a market. From what I know a market is something where you can decide deliberate to do a choice or another. Here, the only choice you have is: do you want, need for job, to drive a car? Fine you have 1.600 euros of insurance to pay, no matter what, and that's the minimum option, then if you are willing to give use more, we are not offended to accept it. You want a scooter? A bike? Fine, you have to pay... and now they are extending the same thing to houses.

If you consider the medium salary in my country is around 15.000 euros you'll understand why people are willing to pay only the minimum.

Because they cannot afford more.
#44
25th December 2012
Old 25th December 2012
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoFi_By_Choice View Post
The ebay analogy would be better described as "The customer sees a picture of bike with a nice saddlebag, and they didn't read the part about only bidding on the saddlebag. The saddlebag arrives, bought for $100. Now the customer is mad that they didn't get the Harley for $100. But the seller clearly showed the Harley in the photo. Customer then goes back to the ad and sees clearly written in LARGE TYPE "ONLY BIDDING ON SADDLE BAG".

What a ripoff, right? Wrong. Would any reasonable person believe that they would get a Harley for $100? Did they not read the ad? Is it the seller's fault that the customer didn't read the ad? No, no and no.

From your argument, if I bid on a guitar pictured in someone's living room with a 50-inch TV in the background, I should get the TV AND the Squier Strat for $75? Maybe the carpet and a couple cans of paint, too? I hope the kid's not in the photo!

Come on. Buyer responsibility is not dead.

Paypal would not be issuing a refund because the buyer did not "know" what they were buying. It was there, in plain view, to be read.
This really pisses me off!
I got 20 ripoff the last year and half (over 25 or so, things bought).
And they were rip off because something was sold as new and it wasn't (and that happened from two of the biggest and more respectable store in EU). Or because they were sold as perfect aesthetically and working conditions and they had the rack ears curved, full of signs, with buttons not working properly, or in other cases they were FULL OR RUST.

All of them were sold as perfect! And the pictures were perfect! In fact they were heavily retouched with photoshop, but done in a good way so you couldn't notice the artifacts.

You have totally revolted my example so it would suit what you want to prove... that people are spoiled and ignorant.

Unfortunately, since the crisis begun, it is almost impossible to buy used.

Every time the seller actually existed (because the other times they have used fake ID with Paypal, even thought they found the way to appear VERIFIED) Paypal reimbursed me. The other times I just got screwed and authorities told me it is impossible to find these guys... they don't have the power nor the money or the time to find a guy in Germany or UK, Spain, or US... for such small amount of money (1.400 euros... which, to me, is A LOT)

So, after being scammed, every time that happened to me, I was on my own. This is equally true for what I bought in ebay or other sites, and the experiences I had with insurance companies.

You know only part of the world, which is normal as anyone of us can't know everything, and that developed some of your idiosyncrasies and common places, so you valuate the world because of that, as I valuate the world because of mine.

That doesn't mean I'm wrong or irresponsible, as you are trying to demonstrate.
#45
25th December 2012
Old 25th December 2012
  #45
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Elan, I apologize for assuming you were in the US, as this thread is geared toward the recent victims of hurricane Sandy. That said, I don't know where you are located. I don't know what government system you live under. I don't want to digress into politics and totally derail the thread by causing it to be deleted.

In the US, we do have limited compulsory insurance, at least in most states (that I am aware of). The coverage is not a set amount, but depends on value of the vehicle, driving history of the drivers, garage location, term amounts, etc. Car insurance (at least in my state) is the only compulsory insurance currently, although if you are still paying a mortgage to a bank, the bank can require you to carry insurance on the property until the mortgage is paid off.

Once a property is paid off, it is up to the owner to insure it on their own. They don't have to, but they are taking on a huge risk if they don't.

Renter's insurance is also not compulsory. A renter cannot be forced to take out insurance.

I don't know how things work in your country. If your government subsidizes insurance and banks perhaps that is why these entities are performing in ways that may be illegal under US law. I don't know. I am not saying one system is better than any other...

Back to topic: in the US, it is a pattern that I have seen (as have others apparently) that some customers buy insurance without really understanding what it is they are buying. Or they really don't care, they just want the "cheapest".

I am sorry my posts have upset you so much. It was not my intent. My experience only applies to insurance sold in the US, and most specifically, my state.
#46
26th December 2012
Old 26th December 2012
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoFi_By_Choice View Post
Elan, I apologize for assuming you were in the US

I don't know how things work in your country. If your government subsidizes insurance and banks perhaps that is why these entities are performing in ways that may be illegal under US law. I don't know. I am not saying one system is better than any other...
Yeah, and sorry for assuming that this way of working was the way insurance agents are instructed to work. I don't know anything, I just know what happened to me and people close to me, and honestly, the kind of company that put so many things on the back or at the end of the page (even thought I read them)... well I don't like that way of working.

If you have a shop, and activity, and you want to sell you have to be honest with your clients, no matter what, otherwise the client simply change the store without telling you anything.

BTW, insurances, banks, are not subsidized by governments, but at the same time they have no rules except theirs and the ones of the forest, the most powerful win, because they are a monopoly.

Because they don't care less about you, but if YOU has million of euros in the bank account... then... "I don't know way" but magically you became important for them... but.. guess what... it is soooo hard that a guy with that amount of money really needs insurance... I think are more needy people like who lose the house and doesn't know where to sleep at night.

I've just seen people ranting about insurance and I added my rant.. even thought it is totally useless
#47
31st December 2012
Old 31st December 2012
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Case View Post
To be fair, it should be pointed out that insurance companies are often victims of insurance fraud which costs everybody money. I don't subscribe to the theory that insurance companies are the only bad guys in the world.
Not sure any thinks insurance companies are the only evil but its actually down to them to stop fraud... my mate works in an insurance investigation office and gets allsorts of dodgy claims... that said if you have flood insurance and your place floods you should be able claim and its when companies dont pay up which makes mockery of the concept

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#48
2nd January 2013
Old 2nd January 2013
  #48
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This isn't about a natural disaster but my first pressed Beatle records were ruined in a basement flood and the insurance company paid 8g's because the covers were ruined still have the vinyl tho.

American Family Insurance was great
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