TLM-103 vs. TLM193.

pedalboy · 29th December 2003, 11:32 PM

Hello all. Sorry this isn't particularly high-end, but its close (for my budget, anyway).

What sort of differences are there between the Neumann TLM-103 and the TLM-193? I'm looking for a vocal mic that sounds good and has a name that will create more business for my small project studio. Of course, I plan to go to sam ash or GC to try both of these mics on my voice and maybe another's, but i'm also interested in what more experienced ears say about it.

Just for laughs... I used to track a rode NT1 into mackie preamps into digital. Then i upgraded to focusrite preamps and realized that I hate the NT1. I was reading the RODE complaint thread and laughing along while agreeing with the unpleasantness i hear in the higher end of it...

Anyway I appreciate your feedback. thanks.

musictech · 30th December 2003, 05:00 AM

I've got both of those mics here in my project studio.

The TLM-193 was the second mic I purchased (an AT-4033 was the first). I got it specifically for working with a female vocalist that had very bright overtones in her voice that just sounded too harsh and did weird things on the AT-4033.

The TLM-193 is much more of a "flat" response type microphone when compared to other "vocal" microphones. In other words, it does NOT have the presence peak/boost type curve that most vocal mics have.

If you A/B the TLM-193 next to any typical vocal mic, you'll think that the TLM-193 sounds kind of dull since it's not hyping up the higher end.

So, the TLM-193 is good for bright sources that would not work well with the typical vocal type mic. I still use it for bright vocalists or voice over artists, and sometimes for Saxophone and other horns, and even as a secondar mic on Acoustic Guitars sometimes.

The TLM-103 is more of a traditional vocal mic sound. It has the built-in presence boost, but also has a big bottom end which is exaggerated even more by the proximity effect if you get someone too close to it. A shock mount is almost a must for the TLM-103 due to the low end it kicks out.

I picked up the TLM-103 when Fletcher at Mercenary was blowing them out due to policy issues with Neumann. I tried it with one of my male vocalists clients and he liked it so much (especially the bigger bottom end) that he wanted to go back and resing vocals on many of his songs with the TLM-103.

They are both great mics, but neither is going to work well for everyone. If your primary use is going to be male vocals, I think the TLM-103 is going to be the better bet unless you happen to have a very bright and sibilant voice, in which case the TLM-193 might work better for you.

On another note, one of the top Voice Over artists in this area (who does a lot of national stuff as well) really loved the sound of his voice through my TLM-193 combined with my old TL-Audio tube pre-amp/compressor unit (pre C1 unit). It was really a great combo for his voice. He went out and bought a TLM-193 for his own studio based on that, but couldn't get that same sound at home (I think he was using the pre-amps in a Mackie board, or possibly might have added an Avalon pre). He ended up trading that in for a TLM-103 instead which worked much better for him with his setup.

Hope this helps.

Steve

littledog · 30th December 2003, 06:18 AM

Steve gave a very nice comparison/analysis.

I would also add that the TLM 103 puts out a MUCH hotter output than the TLM193, and since it has no built in pad you may need to use an inline pad if you use it on louder sources. It's smaller size may also allow you to use it in tighter quarters.

pedalboy · 30th December 2003, 10:20 AM

thanks for the help. The frequency response charts on those mics reinforce what your saying about them, but its always good to hear it from somebody who's actually used im.

The NT1 i use currently isn't good on overly-bright vocalists either... Quite nasty, actually. The 103 sounds like a better mic in general for my needs. But i would just hate to be in a session where neither mic is good for a bright vocal. ::sigh:: i need more gear.

How does the 103 compare (in terms of brightness and otherwise) to your 4033, just out of curiousity? I suppose i won't know for sure which one is for me until I do a listening test. But thanks again for the information.

musictech · 30th December 2003, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pedalboy
How does the 103 compare (in terms of brightness and otherwise) to your 4033, just out of curiousity? I suppose i won't know for sure which one is for me until I do a listening test. But thanks again for the information.

The 4033 is a good vocal mic, especially for male vocalists. It was my first vocal microphone for my home studio and I used it on pretty much everything with good results. I have purchased several "better" mics since then, so I don't really pull out the 4033 anymore, although I guess I should to compare it as I think it might actually be a pretty good choice for some things.

Since it's been a while since I've used it, I'm just relying on memory, and haven't done any direct comparisons. The 4033 has a presence peak as well, which can be a bit harsh for a bright and sibilant type voice (which is why I bought the 193). My feeling is that the 103 is a bit smoother in that presence peak range, but, again, I haven't done a side by side comparison and haven't used the 4033 for quite some time. The 103 has a bigger bottom end and probably has a hotter output as well. The 4033 has a nice sound, and it also has a low frequency roll off switch and a built-in pad, which can be very handy especially if your mic pre-amp does not have a LF roll-off switch. The 4033 shock mount is also usually included, and is much less expensive than the 103 shock mount (which I haven't bought yet, but will probably have to get because of the deep low end response of the 103).

Either one would probably be good for you if you are doing mostly male vocals. You'll have to audition them to see which is best for your voice. If this is mostly for you in your own home studio, you can definitely save some money with the 4033. If other people are going to be using your studio, the "wow" factor of a Neumann microphone may be worth something extra to you.

Steve

littledog · 30th December 2003, 09:16 PM

The TLM103 won't be as spitty as a 4033. I know there are a lot of 4033 fans out there, and it's by no means awful, but I prefer the TLM103 about 95% of the time (assuming those are the only two choices).

pedalboy · 31st December 2003, 09:31 AM

Thanks all. Yeah, I figured that the extra money on the Nuemann wouldn't be as noticable, but i do want that Neumann "wow" to help with the business side of things. And thanks, littledog, about the spittyness comment. If I understand what you mean by "spitty," its something i have and want to get rid of. Thanks all for the help.

Revelation · 31st December 2003, 02:38 PM

Neumanns sister company has a great mic as well, the GML M930.

http://www.digitalprosound.com/Htm/R...ug/Gefell.htm. Though you may not know much about the company Fletcher can give you more info if you need it at Mercenary Audio.

They are both great mic's and sound very similar, however the GML is suppose to have a little more headroom and is a little smoother sounding.

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29th December 2003, 11:32 PM	#1
pedalboy Gear Head Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 71	TLM-103 vs. TLM193. Hello all. Sorry this isn't particularly high-end, but its close (for my budget, anyway). What sort of differences are there between the Neumann TLM-103 and the TLM-193? I'm looking for a vocal mic that sounds good and has a name that will create more business for my small project studio. Of course, I plan to go to sam ash or GC to try both of these mics on my voice and maybe another's, but i'm also interested in what more experienced ears say about it. Just for laughs... I used to track a rode NT1 into mackie preamps into digital. Then i upgraded to focusrite preamps and realized that I hate the NT1. I was reading the RODE complaint thread and laughing along while agreeing with the unpleasantness i hear in the higher end of it... Anyway I appreciate your feedback. thanks.

30th December 2003, 05:00 AM	#2
musictech Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Seattle, WA USA Posts: 220	I've got both of those mics here in my project studio. The TLM-193 was the second mic I purchased (an AT-4033 was the first). I got it specifically for working with a female vocalist that had very bright overtones in her voice that just sounded too harsh and did weird things on the AT-4033. The TLM-193 is much more of a "flat" response type microphone when compared to other "vocal" microphones. In other words, it does NOT have the presence peak/boost type curve that most vocal mics have. If you A/B the TLM-193 next to any typical vocal mic, you'll think that the TLM-193 sounds kind of dull since it's not hyping up the higher end. So, the TLM-193 is good for bright sources that would not work well with the typical vocal type mic. I still use it for bright vocalists or voice over artists, and sometimes for Saxophone and other horns, and even as a secondar mic on Acoustic Guitars sometimes. The TLM-103 is more of a traditional vocal mic sound. It has the built-in presence boost, but also has a big bottom end which is exaggerated even more by the proximity effect if you get someone too close to it. A shock mount is almost a must for the TLM-103 due to the low end it kicks out. I picked up the TLM-103 when Fletcher at Mercenary was blowing them out due to policy issues with Neumann. I tried it with one of my male vocalists clients and he liked it so much (especially the bigger bottom end) that he wanted to go back and resing vocals on many of his songs with the TLM-103. They are both great mics, but neither is going to work well for everyone. If your primary use is going to be male vocals, I think the TLM-103 is going to be the better bet unless you happen to have a very bright and sibilant voice, in which case the TLM-193 might work better for you. On another note, one of the top Voice Over artists in this area (who does a lot of national stuff as well) really loved the sound of his voice through my TLM-193 combined with my old TL-Audio tube pre-amp/compressor unit (pre C1 unit). It was really a great combo for his voice. He went out and bought a TLM-193 for his own studio based on that, but couldn't get that same sound at home (I think he was using the pre-amps in a Mackie board, or possibly might have added an Avalon pre). He ended up trading that in for a TLM-103 instead which worked much better for him with his setup. Hope this helps. Steve __________________ DBAR Productions & MusicTECH - Greater Seattle area Producers & Composers Wanted for LoopLibrary.com & NetMusicLibrary.com!

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30th December 2003, 06:18 AM	#3
littledog Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston area Posts: 872	Steve gave a very nice comparison/analysis. I would also add that the TLM 103 puts out a MUCH hotter output than the TLM193, and since it has no built in pad you may need to use an inline pad if you use it on louder sources. It's smaller size may also allow you to use it in tighter quarters.

30th December 2003, 10:20 AM	#4
pedalboy Gear Head Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 71	thanks for the help. The frequency response charts on those mics reinforce what your saying about them, but its always good to hear it from somebody who's actually used im. The NT1 i use currently isn't good on overly-bright vocalists either... Quite nasty, actually. The 103 sounds like a better mic in general for my needs. But i would just hate to be in a session where neither mic is good for a bright vocal. ::sigh:: i need more gear. How does the 103 compare (in terms of brightness and otherwise) to your 4033, just out of curiousity? I suppose i won't know for sure which one is for me until I do a listening test. But thanks again for the information.

30th December 2003, 09:16 PM	#6
littledog Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston area Posts: 872	The TLM103 won't be as spitty as a 4033. I know there are a lot of 4033 fans out there, and it's by no means awful, but I prefer the TLM103 about 95% of the time (assuming those are the only two choices).

31st December 2003, 09:31 AM	#7
pedalboy Gear Head Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 71	Thanks all. Yeah, I figured that the extra money on the Nuemann wouldn't be as noticable, but i do want that Neumann "wow" to help with the business side of things. And thanks, littledog, about the spittyness comment. If I understand what you mean by "spitty," its something i have and want to get rid of. Thanks all for the help.

31st December 2003, 02:38 PM	#8
Revelation Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New York Posts: 1,131	Neumanns sister company has a great mic as well, the GML M930. http://www.digitalprosound.com/Htm/R...ug/Gefell.htm. Though you may not know much about the company Fletcher can give you more info if you need it at Mercenary Audio. They are both great mic's and sound very similar, however the GML is suppose to have a little more headroom and is a little smoother sounding.