Buying new mic. M149 or Brauner VM1

mardyk · 27th December 2003, 01:53 AM

I'm in the process of buying a high end microphone. These are the main two I've been looking at. What do you think? What other options are there. I'm looking for a neutral sounding mic with lots of options.

dsstudio · 27th December 2003, 08:43 AM

If you have to pick either 1, I say go for M149. Its sound good on most anything, easier to get rid of if after few years you get bore and market value will last longer...
Be sure to get the new 75 years anniversary edition
Sonny

Fletcher · 27th December 2003, 03:01 PM

If you have to pick either, pick the VM-1... as they sound remarkably good on damn near everything... won't crap out the front end of most mic pre's the way an M-149 will... and you won't get bored with the way it sounds like you might with an M-149... meaning that you probably won't resell it... meaning that you won't take a financial hit if you do go to sell it as it's not an overly distributed, discounted to death kind of product.

Best of luck with the decision process.

toolstudio · 27th December 2003, 03:10 PM

I would take the VM1 over the "Sennheiser" M149 any time

wolfgang

MIKEHARRIS · 27th December 2003, 05:11 PM

all my VM1 clients use them for main vocal...better than the M149 for that...if youre doing orchestral...MAYBE M149...but try em with what youre gonna use em for...sad to say arrogant Neumann feels they dont need to supply demos...dealers reluctant to get behind a mic the company is not confident enuff of to supply

mardyk · 27th December 2003, 08:16 PM

Thank you for your replies. Kinda sways me more towards the Brauner. I've also been seeing a lot of good reviews on the Soundelux mics. How do they match up? A lot of people seem to be liking the U195 or the U99.
My main thing right now is for acoustic guitars and vocals, and whatever other acoustic thing I want to record in mono.

I've got a Vintech X73i, a Trakker, and a UA 6176 and a Gibson Hummingbird. What I'm missing is a truly great mic to really capture the tone of that guitar!
What I want to hear coming out of the speakers is what I'm hearing when I'm playing the guitar.
I might also be able to buy a totally refurbed vintage M49. Might be a bit more pricey though.

Sir Bob · 27th December 2003, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mardyk
....a Gibson Hummingbird. What I'm missing is a truly great mic to really capture the tone of that guitar!
What I want to hear coming out of the speakers is what I'm hearing when I'm playing the guitar.
.....

Well I have the same trouble with my booming Martin D-28.

I suspect that large dreadnought guitars are always difficult to record. I have found that it helps to back the mic away to avoid proximity or switch on the high pass filter on the mic. I also have found that power strumming might sound good as I play but a lighter touch is better for recording.

Bottom line, capturing a dreadnought is a challenge.

Sir Bob · 27th December 2003, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mardyk
....a Gibson Hummingbird. What I'm missing is a truly great mic to really capture the tone of that guitar!
What I want to hear coming out of the speakers is what I'm hearing when I'm playing the guitar.
.....

Well I have the same trouble with my booming Martin D-28.

I suspect that large dreadnought guitars are always difficult to record. I have found that it helps to back mic away to avoid proximity or switch on the high pass filter on the mic. I also have found that power strumming might sound good as I play but a lighter touch is better for recording.

Bottom line, capturing a dreadnought is a challenge.

mardyk · 27th December 2003, 08:52 PM

Sir Bob!,
I hear ya! They can sure boom alot. I used to have a J200 before and that was even worse. Strangest thing is that it varies from day to day. I have a pretty good, really wierd shaped ,wooden room though. Plus a bunch off old drumkits laying around creating a cool vibe. If I sit on a chair with the wooden floor underneath and a mic placed a foot or so away from the guitar pointed roughly at the 12th fret, I'm fine. If I'm sitting on a barstool-nightmare! Or in the padded singing booth- also nightmare!

Fletcher · 28th December 2003, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mardyk
What I want to hear coming out of the speakers is what I'm hearing when I'm playing the guitar.

I've had some pretty good luck with Josephson C-42's and T.H.E. KP-6M's... not the most expensive mics on the block... but damn useful with Dreadnoughts

Quote:

I might also be able to buy a totally refurbed vintage M49. Might be a bit more pricey though.

Quite a bit more pricey... a good one will run in the $7,500 to $10k USD weight class... at which point the only way I would recommend you buy one is to run it past a qualified mic technician [I usually recommend Klaus Heyne of German Master Works]... there are a whole buncha really mediocre ones floating around... a whole bunch.

Revelation · 28th December 2003, 03:29 PM

I learned recently in recording guitars to have the mic higher (shoulder height) and slightly angled down. You can do amazing things with mic placment. Have someone strum the guitar, and with headphones on, move the mic around. You should be able to get a good mic position that will take away from the boom.

mardyk · 28th December 2003, 08:22 PM

Fletcher wrote:
I've had some pretty good luck with Josephson C-42's and T.H.E. KP-6M's... not the most expensive mics on the block... but damn useful with Dreadnoughts

I'm also getting a pair of SD condensers, a ribbon mic and a couple of dynamics. I've been looking at AGk 451, Royer 121, MD 421, and Shure sm7. The AKGs should be pretty similar in use to the Josephsons I guess. The KP-6M looks interesting. I'm beginning to think I might not need the Brauner. Maybe I should get a Soundelux U99 instead and buy some more cool mics.

Ianneve · 28th December 2003, 09:30 PM

I got rid of my 149 for the Lawason L251. I A/B'd them and I chose the Lawson. I did a mic shoot out a year befor that with the Brauner and the 149 and the Manly and a few others and shose the 149. So I would say to my ears the Lawson also beats the Brauner.

kevinc · 28th December 2003, 09:34 PM

I just got a U99 and I absolutely love it.
It`s the first mic I`ve owned where it just seems flat out redundent to add any eq to it.
The first project I used it on was a singer / acoustic guitar player and it sounded great on both. For some reason it made the singer (a rather thin tenor) sound more powerful but made the acoustic sound lighter and silky without the boom other mics seem to add.
The only other mics I have to compare are a 414buls, a blueberry, and cheaper mics like an SM81 and 421 but the Soundelux definately blew the shit out of those for either source.

I can`t even imagine getting a whole lot better sounding compared to what I`ve been hearing from the U99 but if it`s out there I`ll take one.

The U99 is definately a great value.

doug_hti · 29th December 2003, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mardyk
Fletcher wrote:
I've had some pretty good luck with Josephson C-42's and T.H.E. KP-6M's... not the most expensive mics on the block... but damn useful with Dreadnoughts

I'm also getting a pair of SD condensers, a ribbon mic and a couple of dynamics. I've been looking at AGk 451, Royer 121, MD 421, and Shure sm7. The AKGs should be pretty similar in use to the Josephsons I guess. The KP-6M looks interesting. I'm beginning to think I might not need the Brauner. Maybe I should get a Soundelux U99 instead and buy some more cool mics.

I have used the M149 quite extensively, especially for voice and piano. The only thing that makes me very nervous is the high output of it. And I don't know much about electronics and all, but I don't like having to potentially throw in an additional attenuator/pad in the chain. It really can overload stuff quite easy. I've overloaded Avalon M5 and Martinsound MSS10 quite easily on voice...and we aren't talking Whitney Houston dynamics. As for the sound. I think it sounds very good, you just might have to babysit the levels a bit more.

I would NOT buy a NEW M149, as there new price is far higher than actual used street price.

I'm very curious about the VM1, haven't tried it.

I purchased a u99 not too long ago. For the money it is a very versatile mic. It's not quite as easy to grab the silky air as C12s and 251s (the real ones), but what do you expect. If you have a good outboard selection of pres, eq and comps, I see no reason why you couldn't get most of your desired results if it helps you buy more diversity with other mics.

I would would also really try and consider the Soundelux 251. I think that is a great sounding mic that is not overpriced (but not cheap) or hyped that works for mostly anything. It has a top end, but it's not ridiculous. Soundelux also impresses me with their build quality.

blackcatdigi · 29th December 2003, 07:07 AM

Not that it should matter to anyone else, but we recently sold off both a M149 and a L47MP (to be replaced with an E47 and elux251)... We've been pleased with the change thus far (although ALL were very good), and to be fair, we're talking inches; NOT miles...

Preferences, IOW; NOT good, better, best...

And yes, they were compared directly in A/B/C/D comparisons (on multiple various sources) to arrive at our decision.

They ALL sounded good, and possesed various strengths and weaknesses, on a case-by-case basis...

ANY would have been acceptable on the sources auditioned...

YMMV

flame Linear · 29th December 2003, 09:55 AM

You might try for guitar a km 84 or as flecters Josephson C-42's.
I have a vintage Gibson humbird and 50's j50 as well as a Martin d35 they all tend to be on the boomy side.
You might want to try a small body guitar > The late 60,s orange lable Yamaha fg75 the best dam cheap guitar deal on the planet. I got mine for free. but the sell all the time for less then 200 somtimes 50bucks. They sure do sound nice in the mix.

Fletcher · 29th December 2003, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ianneve
I got rid of my 149 for the Lawason L251. I A/B'd them and I chose the Lawson. I did a mic shoot out a year befor that with the Brauner and the 149 and the Manly and a few others and shose the 149. So I would say to my ears the Lawson also beats the Brauner.

WhaddaWeGot?

Rock, Paper, Scissors?

Ianneve · 29th December 2003, 05:49 PM

LOL. Well, I had dto chose one. The Lawson sounds great. :>)

Brad Lunde · 30th December 2003, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fletcher
WhaddaWeGot?

Rock, Paper, Scissors?

Ha-ha! Fletcher, you are exactly right ! Very funny.

I think what you can see here from these posts is that of the "new breed" of mic manufacturers, the very best new LD mics being built today are from Brauner, Lawson, Soundelux. Those are the three to focus on if you can spend over $1000 on LD. All three fit my vision for how to create a company that has the customer's goals as paramount: find the owner+operator+designer+builder manufacturers. It doesn't always work, but it works 75% of the time.

It is possible to see the three manufacturers like this: Brauner focuses on high end mics; Lawson focuses on value; Soundelux focuses on restoring proven sounds lost to time. Each has its place. Maybe you have other perspectives on these three?
Brad

littledog · 30th December 2003, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mardyk

I've been looking at AGk 451, Royer 121, MD 421, and Shure sm7. The AKGs should be pretty similar in use to the Josephsons I guess.

I'm guessing that's a wrong guess.

If you get a chance to hear them, I'm guessing you'll find the Josephsons much more euphonic.

mardyk · 30th December 2003, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by littledog
I'm guessing that's a wrong guess.

If you get a chance to hear them, I'm guessing you'll find the Josephsons much more euphonic.

Ok, maybe I'm dense, but what does Euphonic mean? Are these mics also good for OH. This would be my other application for these mics.
Thanks

7rojo7 · 31st December 2003, 03:25 AM

josephson, you could use them on anything and you'd be happy.
of the LDs I like the Brauners, I have 2 VM1s, 2 valvets (less patterns different transformer) and 3 phantom Vs (very clean and fast and accurate for an LD mic.) they all have a very transparent and dynamic accurate response due to their amplifier design and they're built like Saturn V rockets.

Ckevperry · 31st December 2003, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 7rojo7
josephson, you could use them on anything and you'd be happy.
of the LDs I like the Brauners, I have 2 VM1s, 2 valvets (less patterns different transformer) and 3 phantom Vs (very clean and fast and accurate for an LD mic.) they all have a very transparent and dynamic accurate response due to their amplifier design and they're built like Saturn V rockets.

Hey 7rojo, would mind elaborating a bit on the differences sonically between the three....seeing as how you own all three?

Thanks.

Fletcher · 31st December 2003, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mardyk
what does Euphonic mean?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=euphonic

Euphonic

\Eu*phon"ic\, Euphonical \Eu*phon"ic*al\, a. Pertaining to, or exhibiting, euphony; agreeable in sound; pleasing to the ear; euphonious; as, a euphonic expression; euphonical orthography.

...from the common humhead venacular... very rich in terms of tone and texture... spacious, lovely, clear, creamy, full, forward, opulent... expensive sounding

Quote:

Are these mics also good for OH.

IMNTLBFHO... ****ing awesome.

Sir Bob · 31st December 2003, 05:07 PM

Which mics are more ebonic?

Don · 31st December 2003, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Bob
Which mics are more ebonic?

hummm..whats popular in "gangsta rap" circles

kevinc · 31st December 2003, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don
hummm..whats popular in "gangsta rap" circles

Or maybe one with a " Ray Charles " button.

Han · 1st January 2004, 02:25 AM

What are we, gearslutz or gearsnobs?

A Radio Shack PZM on the sweet spot will sound better on your guitar than a M149, VM1 or whatever hi end mic on the wrong spot.

It's all about placement.

Happy New Year everybody!

De chromium cob · 1st January 2004, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Bob
Which mics are more ebonic?

My guess would be the Sony C-800G.....

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27th December 2003, 01:53 AM	#1
mardyk Gear maniac Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Stockholm Posts: 159	Buying new mic. M149 or Brauner VM1 I'm in the process of buying a high end microphone. These are the main two I've been looking at. What do you think? What other options are there. I'm looking for a neutral sounding mic with lots of options.

27th December 2003, 03:01 PM	#3
Fletcher member no 666 Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Foxboro, MA USA Posts: 5,782	If you have to pick either, pick the VM-1... as they sound remarkably good on damn near everything... won't crap out the front end of most mic pre's the way an M-149 will... and you won't get bored with the way it sounds like you might with an M-149... meaning that you probably won't resell it... meaning that you won't take a financial hit if you do go to sell it as it's not an overly distributed, discounted to death kind of product. Best of luck with the decision process. __________________ Fletcher R/E/P the Recording Engineer and Producer forums Mercenary Audio the small drinking company with a large audio problem mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33 We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid Roscoe Ambel once said: Pro-Tools is to audio what fluorescent is to light

29th December 2003, 07:07 AM	#16
blackcatdigi Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: upstate, sc Posts: 1,465	Not that it should matter to anyone else, but we recently sold off both a M149 and a L47MP (to be replaced with an E47 and elux251)... We've been pleased with the change thus far (although ALL were very good), and to be fair, we're talking inches; NOT miles... Preferences, IOW; NOT good, better, best... And yes, they were compared directly in A/B/C/D comparisons (on multiple various sources) to arrive at our decision. They ALL sounded good, and possesed various strengths and weaknesses, on a case-by-case basis... ANY would have been acceptable on the sources auditioned... YMMV __________________ Sincerely, Casey SC Digital Services Bob Olhsson wrote on 17th September 2002, 12:56 PM: "Music is being used to sort consumers rather than to entertain people."

29th December 2003, 09:55 AM	#17
flame Linear Gear Head Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: boston Posts: 52	You might try for guitar a km 84 or as flecters Josephson C-42's. I have a vintage Gibson humbird and 50's j50 as well as a Martin d35 they all tend to be on the boomy side. You might want to try a small body guitar > The late 60,s orange lable Yamaha fg75 the best dam cheap guitar deal on the planet. I got mine for free. but the sell all the time for less then 200 somtimes 50bucks. They sure do sound nice in the mix. __________________ "Dam just blew up the moniters" Maybe its the amp again

27th December 2003, 08:43 AM	#2
dsstudio Gear maniac Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: CA, USA Posts: 286	If you have to pick either 1, I say go for M149. Its sound good on most anything, easier to get rid of if after few years you get bore and market value will last longer... Be sure to get the new 75 years anniversary edition Sonny

27th December 2003, 03:10 PM	#4
toolstudio Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 540	I would take the VM1 over the "Sennheiser" M149 any time wolfgang

27th December 2003, 05:11 PM	#5
MIKEHARRIS Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: MIAMI FLA Posts: 1,308	all my VM1 clients use them for main vocal...better than the M149 for that...if youre doing orchestral...MAYBE M149...but try em with what youre gonna use em for...sad to say arrogant Neumann feels they dont need to supply demos...dealers reluctant to get behind a mic the company is not confident enuff of to supply

27th December 2003, 08:16 PM	#6
mardyk Gear maniac Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Stockholm Posts: 159	Thank you for your replies. Kinda sways me more towards the Brauner. I've also been seeing a lot of good reviews on the Soundelux mics. How do they match up? A lot of people seem to be liking the U195 or the U99. My main thing right now is for acoustic guitars and vocals, and whatever other acoustic thing I want to record in mono. I've got a Vintech X73i, a Trakker, and a UA 6176 and a Gibson Hummingbird. What I'm missing is a truly great mic to really capture the tone of that guitar! What I want to hear coming out of the speakers is what I'm hearing when I'm playing the guitar. I might also be able to buy a totally refurbed vintage M49. Might be a bit more pricey though.

27th December 2003, 08:52 PM	#9
mardyk Gear maniac Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Stockholm Posts: 159	Sir Bob!, I hear ya! They can sure boom alot. I used to have a J200 before and that was even worse. Strangest thing is that it varies from day to day. I have a pretty good, really wierd shaped ,wooden room though. Plus a bunch off old drumkits laying around creating a cool vibe. If I sit on a chair with the wooden floor underneath and a mic placed a foot or so away from the guitar pointed roughly at the 12th fret, I'm fine. If I'm sitting on a barstool-nightmare! Or in the padded singing booth- also nightmare!

28th December 2003, 03:29 PM	#11
Revelation Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New York Posts: 1,131	I learned recently in recording guitars to have the mic higher (shoulder height) and slightly angled down. You can do amazing things with mic placment. Have someone strum the guitar, and with headphones on, move the mic around. You should be able to get a good mic position that will take away from the boom.

28th December 2003, 08:22 PM	#12
mardyk Gear maniac Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Stockholm Posts: 159	Fletcher wrote: I've had some pretty good luck with Josephson C-42's and T.H.E. KP-6M's... not the most expensive mics on the block... but damn useful with Dreadnoughts I'm also getting a pair of SD condensers, a ribbon mic and a couple of dynamics. I've been looking at AGk 451, Royer 121, MD 421, and Shure sm7. The AKGs should be pretty similar in use to the Josephsons I guess. The KP-6M looks interesting. I'm beginning to think I might not need the Brauner. Maybe I should get a Soundelux U99 instead and buy some more cool mics.

28th December 2003, 09:30 PM	#13
Ianneve Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 421	I got rid of my 149 for the Lawason L251. I A/B'd them and I chose the Lawson. I did a mic shoot out a year befor that with the Brauner and the 149 and the Manly and a few others and shose the 149. So I would say to my ears the Lawson also beats the Brauner.

28th December 2003, 09:34 PM	#14
kevinc Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Beantown Posts: 2,464	I just got a U99 and I absolutely love it. It`s the first mic I`ve owned where it just seems flat out redundent to add any eq to it. The first project I used it on was a singer / acoustic guitar player and it sounded great on both. For some reason it made the singer (a rather thin tenor) sound more powerful but made the acoustic sound lighter and silky without the boom other mics seem to add. The only other mics I have to compare are a 414buls, a blueberry, and cheaper mics like an SM81 and 421 but the Soundelux definately blew the shit out of those for either source. I can`t even imagine getting a whole lot better sounding compared to what I`ve been hearing from the U99 but if it`s out there I`ll take one. The U99 is definately a great value.

29th December 2003, 05:49 PM	#19
Ianneve Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 421	LOL. Well, I had dto chose one. The Lawson sounds great. :>)

31st December 2003, 03:25 AM	#23
7rojo7 urumita Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Spoleto, Italy Posts: 1,284	josephson, you could use them on anything and you'd be happy. of the LDs I like the Brauners, I have 2 VM1s, 2 valvets (less patterns different transformer) and 3 phantom Vs (very clean and fast and accurate for an LD mic.) they all have a very transparent and dynamic accurate response due to their amplifier design and they're built like Saturn V rockets. __________________ love and light

31st December 2003, 05:07 PM	#26
Sir Bob Gear maniac Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 240	Which mics are more ebonic?

1st January 2004, 02:25 AM	#29
Han Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Netherlands Posts: 835	What are we, gearslutz or gearsnobs? A Radio Shack PZM on the sweet spot will sound better on your guitar than a M149, VM1 or whatever hi end mic on the wrong spot. It's all about placement. Happy New Year everybody!