Questions regarding Neumann U87..

[Myopic Void]

Hi,

I have a few questions about Neumann U87's that some of you can perhaps help me with. I have been wanting to locate a late 60's ealry 70's U87 for a while but have been caught up in upgrading my studio with new Lynx Aurora converters and Neve/Api mic-pre's, rebuilding my Ampex multitracks etc. Now that I am done with these other upgrades I am on the hunt for an older U87.

At the moment my best mic for vocals is a CAD 400s LDC and a Royer 121 (which works well on some people and others not). I am lacking a top shelf LDC. I know that U87 is not high on everybodies list these days, but from what I can tell, most of my favorite recordings have used the U87 or U67. The U67 is out of my range.

Question 1. What are some of the ways that one can identify a late 60's early 70's U87? About all I can do at the moment is identify ones older than 1987. I cannot tell the difference between say a 1979 or a 1971 etc. I realize that work may be in order for a mic this old but I really want to have one using older Carbon film resistors and caps etc.

Question 2. I understand the older U87's can take higher SPL...is this true? Besides vocals I really want to use this mic along with my Royer 121 on my 1969 Plexi Marshall 100w amp. Is this safe to do with the 10db pad engaged? I love the sound that Eddie Krammer got with the U87 used on Jimmy Page's Basketweave 4x12 cabs for some of the 1972-73 live shows. I also like the sound of it when it was used on John Bonhams 14x26" bass drum for the Royal Albert Hall show 1970.

Last question, any reliable sources for this mic besides the bay or forum FS ad's?

Thanks for your time.

Cheers,


Eric

[Dirty Halo]

Well, the answer to part of your second question is easily accomplished by having Klaus mod your U87 and I would even say, don't be so attached to the period of U87 if you send it to Klaus...he is THE king of making those babies SING!

And for what it's worth, slagging the U87 here is nothing more than sheep following a trend. That mic is a class act and a good one and/or moded by Klaus is on par with ANY of the best mics out there (depending on the sound you're going after.)

I'd also look at a new Pearlman, damn, that mic is like a U47/U87 and its own spin...top notch!

-a

DIRTY HALO www.dirtyhalo.com

[zak7]

why don't contact octavamod.com they can give you a great advise because they mod mics!

[Myopic Void]

I use both old and new 87s on guitar amps (and everything else), and you want to watch how loud the amps are. Keep in mind you can get plenty huge guitar sounds without the amps cranked. Sometimes, more so...

I could not agree more. I find that running my 69 or 67 Super Lead Marshalls around 2-4 on the Vol, I get a much rounder and fuller sound. I just want to get some feedback on what the U87 can handle without killing it. I feel that my Royer 121 is a little too smooth and dark on amps in some way's, I can get some of the edge back with the shure but I am really wondering what the U87 could add. I hope to find out soon.

Thanks for the great advice!

And for what it's worth, slagging the U87 here is nothing more than sheep following a trend. That mic is a class act and a good one and/or moded by Klaus is on par with ANY of the best mics out there (depending on the sound you're going after.)

If the U87 is good enough for Robert Plant or Karen Carpenter it's good enough for me! The U87 loved their voices IMHO.

I'll look into the Pearlman, thanks for the heads up. As I said I need a good LDC and the U87 is LDC I have always wanted. The time has come to try one out in my studio.

Eric

[AMIEL]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Well, the answer to part of your second question is easily accomplished by having Klaus mod your U87 and I would even say, don't be so attached to the period of U87 if you send it to Klaus...he is THE king of making those babies SING!

And for what it's worth, slagging the U87 here is nothing more than sheep following a trend. That mic is a class act and a good one and/or moded by Klaus is on par with ANY of the best mics out there (depending on the sound you're going after.)

I'd also look at a new Pearlman, damn, that mic is like a U47/U87 and its own spin...top notch!

-a

DIRTY HALO www.dirtyhalo.com

Yeah! that would be an excelent idea!!

[Klaus]

Sorry if I repeat myself:

1. All "Old" U87 (1967 to 1986) had a 5 dB higher headroom than current "new" U87 (all models with the "A" suffix)

2. All new U87 have a 10 dB higher output than the old model

3. The individual sound of a specific specimen of either of the models is more determined by the capsule's character in that specific mic than by any other single factor, because the mic's audio amp/processor and the capsule's design and manufacturing quality remained largely unchanged.

4. There are many sub-versions of "old" and "new" U87, due to changes in parts being used, suppliers being changed for transformers, etc. to the point that it is impossible to "average" the sound of a specific year of a U87 and make a quality declaration about that year.

Among brand new or pristinely preserved used U87, you may find an excellent 1974 sample, or a horrible 1987 sample, you may run into a superb 2006 sample, and a useless 1969 sample. Add to this the unknowns of past usage, and you have to come to the conclusion that EVERY model year U87 has the possibility for excellent, mediocre and lousy sounding mics.

5. The headroom of both U87 models is severely limited by the usage of a single FET as impedance converter (this minimalism is of course also the source of its musical attraction) Any JFET will distort with little warning once you approach its limits, and the distortion is ugly. Using a U87 in front of a Marshall stack is risky (but can be done- see Jimi Hendrix's Isle of Wright Concert recording)

Best regards,
Klaus Heyne

[Myopic Void]

Using a U87 in front of a Marshall stack is risky (but can be done- see Jimi Hendrix's Isle of Wright Concert recording)

What can happen exaclty... worst case? Any idea what they did at the Isle of White to minimize distortion or sudden death? As I said in my earlier post Eddie Krammer was using them on Jimmy Page's amps as well.

I want to try this when I get one.

Best,

Eric

[Steve Young]

Has anyone heard the Korby mods on the U 87 ?

As I understand it , Korby does 2 different mods .

1. He changes the 87 to a tube mic along the lines of a 67 -costs $2,500.

2. He mods the mic as it is for $500 .

[carival]

I have some old and some new U87s. Some people don't like em. Some do. Whatever. I can use them on most anything. One of my old ones was modified (not tubed) by Korby. It is a great sounding mic. It's more open than a stock U87. Not quite as peaky and pinched. It is hotter, (not always a good thing) like a U87ai. I like it on more singers than a stock U87. The Korby U87 probably wouldn't be my first choice on the grill of a really loud guitar amp, but it is one of my most used mics.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Steve Young

2. He mods the mic as it is for $500 .

How do you "mod a mic as it is"? A mic has to be different if it has a modification... doesn't it?

[Steve Young]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

How do you "mod a mic as it is"? A mic has to be different if it has a modification... doesn't it?

What I mean is they keep and use the 87's original amp in the $500 mod .
The more expensive Korby mod makes the 87 into a tube mic - with a new amp .

I think these are the correct terms - but I'm not sure .

[perky b]

I realize this wasn't exactly the question- but in case fellow slutz aren't aware of it- the Inner Tube Audio mod for the 87 is a fabuous upgrade- we got the tube mod kit for our 87 ai and couldn't be happier- we have a tele 47 and a nuvistor 47 in our studio and this mic is now serious competition for both-

it works great on many vocalists and also on acoustic and electric instruments- a few times we have set it up for a vocalist along side the tele 47 and in the control room it is not easy to tell which mic the singer is using without looking- not that it even proports to be a U47 clone- but it sure does sound great on everything and it is only $1500- and Stayne is a great guy to do business with- my 2 cents-

[analogjeff]

we have a 70's 87, refurbed by korby, that we purchased from vintage king, and it sounds great -- very big, open, and strong -- we chose it very easily and quickly over other new mics like Pearlman and Soundeluxe, as well as over 67's... hadn't expected to like or get an 87, but this one really works for us...

[GearHunter]

I have an '87 87 and it sounds great. I refer to it as a "textbook" U87 sound, creamy, not hyped in the highs with just enough detail to sound present and intimate. Very round, but not honky, and unlike some 87s. this one's not too peaky or nasally. Most people who hear it on recordings think they're hearing a tube mic like a 67. Often there's not a tube even in the signal path.

Speaking of tubes, I too am considering the Inner-Tube mod.

[Steve Young]

Originally Posted by analogjeff

we have a 70's 87, refurbed by korby, that we purchased from vintage king, and it sounds great -- very big, open, and strong -- we chose it very easily and quickly over other new mics like Pearlman and Soundeluxe, as well as over 67's... hadn't expected to like or get an 87, but this one really works for us...

Which mod does your mic have ? Is it the $2500 tube mod or the the $500 mod by Korby ?

[Myopic Void]

I went for it....I just recieved my Neuman U87 from Bearsville Studios! Built in June 1970. It's in really good shape. I am going to use it tonight. Thanks to all here for the heads up about the Bearsville mic's for sale and information on dating etc.

It appears this was one early ones bought by the studio and I suspect many artist has shared some time with this mic.

Best,


Eric

[popmann]

Speaking of tubes, I too am considering the Inner-Tube mod.

If it sounds good...leave it alone.

The Innertube is nice...but, it makes it more C12'y...it's a distinct change in sound. I personally prefer the stock on acoustic gtrs, for example. Of course, it's reversible in a few minutes, so...