Questions about "re-amping" DI guitar tracks from a novice ??
sage691
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#1
6th December 2006
Old 6th December 2006
  #1
Lives for gear
 

Thread Starter
Questions about "re-amping" DI guitar tracks from a novice ??

I hear alot about "re-amping" on this forum, but I'm still not quite sure exactly what most of you mean by this term.

Am I correct in assuming that this is for when you have recorded your tracks DI in to the DAW using an "amp simulator", and later on want to get the real amp sound without having to re-record the tracks ?

I'm asking because on my latest band's project we used SansAmp and Amp Farm exclusively to quickly get the guitar tones so I had something to work with to record the vocals. The guitar was a nice PRS CE24, and it was routed directly into the 1/4" input of a Neve 1272 into PT via an AD8000. SO the actual sound in PT is just a dry guitar when the SansAmp or AMpFarm plugs are bypassed.

Am I correct in assuming that once I get the real amp head and cab into my studio, I can simply run an out of the dry recorded signal of each track from the D/A converter directly into the head , and that this is what you guys mean by "re-amping" ??

Sorry if I sound stupid on this issue, but I'm a piano player so the guitar stuff is kinda alien to me.

If any of you have some "re-amping" techniques you'd like to share, I'd definitely appreciate hearing them.
#2
7th December 2006
Old 7th December 2006
  #2
Lives for gear
 

it's not going to come out of the converters at the proper level...

you're going to want to get your hands on something like this....

http://www.reamp.com/

that you run from your converrters to....and then from that...to your amp

then mic it up and re-record it
#3
7th December 2006
Old 7th December 2006
  #3
Lives for gear
 

Besides the level being too hot, it won't be the right impedance coming out of the converter. It will be a low impedance, high level signal. You won't get an even frequency response and will probably lose some highs and lows. Guitar amps expect a high impedance, low level signal.

Like the other poster said a re-amp box to convert the signal back to a high impedance signal, low level signal will help. Radial makes the Xamp which I've used from time to time with success. You can also reverse some passive DI boxes if you already have one.
#4
7th December 2006
Old 7th December 2006
  #4
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major tom...would you mind telling me why anyone would want to buy a 200 dollar "reamp" piece if you can just get a 40 dollar passive DI box and reverse it??

seems like a no brainer to me....dont buy one...

(i dont own either)
#5
7th December 2006
Old 7th December 2006
  #5
Lives for gear
 

As I understand it, for passive DIs, the sound is largely determined by the quality of the transformer. Good transformers aren't cheap. So, a $40 box would probably not have a very good transformer.

Good active boxes are supposed to have better high frequency response and effect the signal less, because there's no transformer. But, I haven't tested this personally and the reamp box you posted about seems to have a transformer which makes it a different beast.

I like the X-amp because I can control the level very easily. I can get the signal going into the amp to be the same level as it was the first time around. Admittedly, there are other ways to do this before the signal hits the reamp box. I can also send the signal to two amps which can be useful.

Honestly, I bought the X-amp before I figured out that I could probably just reverse a passive box. I may have gone with something like a JDI if I had known, but I have no regrets with the X-amp. I'm not completely sure if the JDI solution would work without distortion but if you already had a passive box it'd be worth a try. You'd probably need to attenuate the signal from the DAW, though.
#6
7th December 2006
Old 7th December 2006
  #6
#7
7th December 2006
Old 7th December 2006
  #7
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swankdoc's Avatar
 

#8
7th December 2006
Old 7th December 2006
  #8
I love the Radial X-Amp. I wasn't able to make the DI-in-reverse thing work at all.
#9
7th December 2006
Old 7th December 2006
  #9
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sleepwalker's Avatar
 

There's an audible improvement with my Radial X-Amp that's powered, compared with my Radial Passive DI. It's worth it to me and I consider the $160 a bargain.

I go through $2k of converters before I hit the amp, what's another $200 if it makes a positive difference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by orksnork View Post
major tom...would you mind telling me why anyone would want to buy a 200 dollar "reamp" piece if you can just get a 40 dollar passive DI box and reverse it??

seems like a no brainer to me....dont buy one...

(i dont own either)
#10
7th December 2006
Old 7th December 2006
  #10
Lives for gear
 

ahh i was just picking to see why who what now
#11
7th December 2006
Old 7th December 2006
  #11
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post

Am I correct in assuming that once I get the real amp head and cab into my studio, I can simply run an out of the dry recorded signal of each track from the D/A converter directly into the head,
Yes, you can do that. Just turn down the output of the D/A converter a bit though, as the guitar amp is a high gain input.
As far as the impedance 'mismatch' is concerned, it's ok to have a low impedance feeding a high impedance, (but not the other way round) so you're ok.
Some people solder a 5K or 10K resistor in series (inside a 1/4" jack plug) for the guitar amp end of the lead.

---
#12
7th December 2006
Old 7th December 2006
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvck View Post
Yes, you can do that. Just turn down the output of the D/A converter a bit though, as the guitar amp is a high gain input.
As far as the impedance 'mismatch' is concerned, it's ok to have a low impedance feeding a high impedance, (but not the other way round) so you're ok.
Some people solder a 5K or 10K resistor in series (inside a 1/4" jack plug) for the guitar amp end of the lead.

---

I'm going to have to disagree with this. You need a reamp box to do it right. Your guitar amp wants to see a guitar signal, not a line level signal. It messes up the sound and may not be good for your amp.
sage691
Thread Starter
#13
7th December 2006
Old 7th December 2006
  #13
Lives for gear
 

Thread Starter
OK, thanks to everyone for your comments. Now I understand what the X amp is all about.

Hey, I don't mind spending $170 as long as I know the signal I got from the PRS guitar and the Neve 1272 is preserved as much as possible.

Even with a plugin like SansAmp, it's amazing what difference a good guitar and SS class A mic pre makes in what you can get out of the plugin. With a shitty guitar and going direct into a Digi 002 interface (on a friend's home system), the SansAmp was pretty thin sounding. But with the PRS, 1272, and AD8000 it made the plugin almost useable -- but just not good enough for the staccato and "crunch" stuff that you want to sound larger than life.

I may end up blending some of the SansAmp tracks with the reamp'd ones. I've heard about others doing this for a sound that is pretty hellacious, which is what I'm going for.
#14
8th December 2006
Old 8th December 2006
  #14
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PapillonIrl's Avatar
 

Little Labs IBP get's my vote.

Not only can you reamp...but you can mic the reamped signal with one close mic and one a couple feet away and use the phase adjustment knob to tweak your tone during mixdown.

As well as the myriad of other used the box has.

Nathan
#15
8th December 2006
Old 8th December 2006
  #15
MonsterIsland.com
 

The IBP let's you reamp? I may not be able to hold out longer.

One thing you might want to consider is hiring Michael Wagner to do the re-amping and re-recording.

He posted some very reasonable rates, and my guess is that his service is still in the development phase and that he might be a little more generous with earlier customers. I don't mean to speak for him, that's just a guess.
#16
8th December 2006
Old 8th December 2006
  #16
Gear addict
 

If you know what you're doing all it takes is a 1/4" patch cord with removeable shields (i.e. Switchcraft) 2 ten cent resistors and about ten minutes work to make something that'll work great - provided you don't have a ground issue between amp and converter - when you use it just make sure the resistors are on the amp end of the cable.
#17
9th December 2006
Old 9th December 2006
  #17
High End Moderator
 
mwagener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
...
One thing you might want to consider is hiring Michael Wagner to do the re-amping and re-recording.

He posted some very reasonable rates, and my guess is that his service is still in the development phase and that he might be a little more generous with earlier customers. I don't mean to speak for him, that's just a guess.
#18
9th December 2006
Old 9th December 2006
  #18
Gear maniac
 

Its not true that you NEED a reamp box to run a line signal into a guitar amp. The impedance difference is not a problem because (like an earlier post said) the input Z needs to be equal to or higher than the output Z. In this case the output Z of your mixer or convertor is low, 1k ohm or less (hopefully!) and the input Z of a guitar amp is around 1meg ohm.

You wont damage your amp by feeding it with a line source as long as you dont overload it with excessive level. You can feed it from an aux send with the level turned right down and get good results.

Even better you can make a pad cable (or adapter) that will effectively turn your computer/D-A/mixer into a guitar, at least as far as the amp is concerned.

Try 10k in series with 56ohms across it for about 45db of attenuation OR, if you want the type/length of the guitar cable to be a factor just like it is with a real guitar, try 1meg in series with 5k6 across it.

I havnt tried those values myself but they should work...



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