Time- Alignment techniques... don't argue whether its dumb or not plz.

[StrykeBack]

We had some great threads on time aligning drums and other instruments and there were some great tricks and techniques that people had tossed out there for doing such things but it all got pretty well burried under 5 or 6 or even 7 pages of people arguing whether u were "destroying" the sound or those that weren't in the know didn't know what they were doing.

I'd love for some engineers that do use this technique to come in here and explain their best way or fastest way of doing it.

Someone mentioned using sync points in protools and alligning all the other sync points to that single first one on the snare track or whatever they wanted to use. (i tried this technique and couldn't get the other tracks to align to the first one and would love more of an indepth walkthrough on how to do that since it would seem the fastest way)

[anne_paranoid]

Can you put the link to those techniques? I´m very interested and i have not info about

Thanx in advance

[Bob Olhsson]

The fastest way to do it is recording a handclap at the session. Without that, it's all trial and error moving the tracks around.

I've had it work wonders on one song and sound awful on another that was played ten minutes later with the setup unchanged. This is probably why opinions about this are all over the map!

[mr. moon]

The following site gives some good background info and techniques, as well as a before & after comparison:

http://recdiy.com/TimeAlign/TimeAlign1.html

-mr moon

[StrykeBack]

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...ght=time+align

and heres another http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...ght=time+align

Theres plenty of talk whether its dumb to do this or its got an awesome sound. I agree, it either works or doesn't depending on the "sound" i want the mix to have. Thats why i'm looking for everyones techniques to see what I can find as the fastest so I can try it very quickly and compare with the non aligned sound and can decide from there.

Some mentioned using beat detective in a couple threads but i'm not sure how ur going to get all the tracks to align to another other then "quantizing" everything.

[Jules]

I find it slow, a PITA and dull work to do...

I cant think of anything 'quick about it

I contend it cant be done just by eye (on the screen) you must adjust it / fine tune it by ear

And that IMHO is what takes the time..

I have this heinous, satanic, Frankenstein editing technique stashed away in a production bag of tricks labeled, 'things to do if the drum sound has worked out to be TOTALLY SH!T', (weak, is 'distant' and lacking punch") I don't feel the need to dip into that bag very often..

[StrykeBack]

I find it slow, a PITA and dull work to do...

True, it takes me 10 to 15 minutes to do it by hand and I'm still fairly slow in protools and I wouldn't want to have to do it with a client waiting there like that because there is a lot of trial and error, but thats why I'm searching out better ways to do it.

Oh and when it does work the drums sound anythign but dull

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

The fastest way to do it is recording a handclap at the session. Without that, it's all trial and error moving the tracks around.

So where does the handclapper stand? And then you end up with everything time aligned to that one spot. Is that the best position for listening?

What about for drums? Where would your clapper be then?

[anne_paranoid]

I tried yesterday for the very first time with very good results. Snare reached up, bass drum was more problematic.

[Zep Dude]

The only things I'll do is to maybe align the inner and outer kik mics and maybe to shift the overheads so they sync together on the snare (putting it in the middle). Every time I've tried it more extensively, trying to lock everything to the kick or snare or whatever and thought I was getting somewhere I compared it to the unshifted tracks and realized I was wasting my time. Perfect phase alignment makes the drum you shifting to sound to thuddy and moving everything slightly off the attack doesn't seem to help. I haven't tried this with poorly recorded drums, but with a well recorded kit, it usually sounds best leaving well enough alone.

Oh, you can mess with room mics if you want -shift them in for a tighter sound and out for a larger apparent room.

[StrykeBack]

and maybe to shift the overheads so they sync together on the snare (putting it in the middle).

You mean your not placing the snare on either of the overheads hit points but somewhere inbetween the 2 on both of the overheads?

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Zep Dude

TI haven't tried this with poorly recorded drums, but with a well recorded kit, it usually sounds best leaving well enough alone.

Exactly.

[MX582]

multi-track beat detective?

[Fajita]

Originally Posted by MX582

multi-track beat detective?

new versions of Pro Tools LE have it and ALL versions of TDM have it.

[MX582]

i have a LE and i got the music production kit thingy and it came with it..i use it all the time!

[StrykeBack]

how are you using beat detective to time align drums? I've heard of others using this. I don't want to quantize i just want to slide the tracks a tad.

I too have the music production bundle from digi. What I thought was a waste of money is actually a really good bundle of tools and awesome synth. True it should just be included but hey its digi

[mschulze]

I'm the lunatic who wrote the article that got that great 7 - 8 page scuffle going!

www.recdiy.com

I need to put up new audio examples - it reallymakes a difference in a big room.

Anyway I can now do it in like 3 minutes. here's how:

Easiest way is to get a sony Oxford console which lets you delay any track and actually shows the delay in feet or meters!

But if you don't have that then:

Have the drummer hit each close miked drum once, hard. Don't ferget the hihat.
Switch the time display in protools to samples.
Let's start with the kick. Zoom in on your one kick hit and use the I beam tool to select the space between the transient attack on the kick rack and the same transient on the OH tracks. If the two OH tracks look different in time maybe use the sooner one. Up under the rulers in PT it says (I think) "length" and a number. This is the length in samples of the space you have selected. Slap that sample accurate delay plugin (i ferget what its called - not the one with feedback and mod) on the sooner track and enter that number and yer good to go.

Also look at the polarity (polarity and phase ain't the same thing!). As you go through this process flip the polarity of all the tracks that produce a downward initial attack (negative polarity - drum head moving away from the mic). This will include the overheads. BE CAREFUL! Make sure you get positive spikes from all drums including overheads.

Anyway do that fer each drum. Takes me just a few minnits and is real easy. The cool thing is that now you can place yer drum mics and room where the sound best and not have to scoot them around looking for a random phase alignment that still leaves the transients completely un aligned. Takes me way less time to align than to move mics all over the place after they already sound good solo'd.

It gets more complex when say, two kick mics. Delay the sooner one to the later one, bus them both to an aux, and delay that aux using the time between later one and the OH. Same for top/bottom snare mics.

As for beat detective, now that the mics are aligned with plugin delays I analyze the kick and snare tracks to create my beat map, or whatever it;s called in PT, then conform all the other drum tracks to the beats that came from the kick/snare. So all the drum tracks move exactly together and your alignment os not altered. I duno that BT is gonna be accurate enough to be used for alignment. That would be a PITA I think. I just use it for the groove.

(I also time align a bit when mixing live sound, but by guessing and by ear. Generally same delay for all drum tracks just to align the acoustic sound and the mains to the FOH mix position. I know, every seat in the house hears a different time relationship, bjt I dont care - I do it for me!)