DA - AD crucial journey

[ISedlacek]

I have Mytek AD and APogee Mini DAC and sometimes use this path for processing through a pair of Millennia STT-1. By an experiment (connecting DA-AD directly) I found that there IS a tiny "leakage" of the sound quality. That what comes in is not the same what goes out. I wonder whether the loss is rather on Apogee or Mytek part or both ? Since the sound quality difference between Mytek and Apogee Rosetta AD was dramatic, I tend to believe that when I add Mytek DA to my chain, the result may be closer to perfect. Has anyone ever compared Mytek DA to Apogee mini DAC ?

[DigiGeek]

I think you are looking in the wrong direction. There is not a more accurate D/A that I have heard than the Mini-DAC (also the Rosetta 800).

Your Rosetta A/D probably did sound better and more accurate than the Mytek, but somehow you must have screwed up your test. I have listened to the files on Mytek's website comparing their box to the PSX-100 and the PSX is much better-not a litle better, MUCH better. Since the PSX and the Rosetta A/D are supposed to be the same A/D, I'd have to surmise that you made a mistake.

[ISedlacek]

Originally posted by DigiGeek
I think you are looking in the wrong direction. There is not a more accurate D/A that I have heard than the Mini-DAC (also the Rosetta 800).

Your Rosetta A/D probably did sound better and more accurate than the Mytek, but somehow you must have screwed up your test. I have listened to the files on Mytek's website comparing their box to the PSX-100 and the PSX is much better-not a litle better, MUCH better. Since the PSX and the Rosetta A/D are supposed to be the same A/D, I'd have to surmise that you made a mistake.

You are known as very enthusiastic Apogee messenger, but this time I can assure you and all others, that what you say is not true at all. You simply cannot change the facts, which are not theoretical but from the real world, from side by side gear comparison

1) The quality difference between Rosetta AD and Mytek IS very huge, not subtle, it is a fact, I heard and documented it on a number of instruments and vocal recordings, on a top quality front end. It is simply A FACT (I still have the recorded samples with me).Mytek is the next league - more open, detailed and transparent

2) I too have listened to some comparison files of Mytek/Apogee/PT AD. (Namely the recording of Ravel piano trio). If you really say that in this very case the sound file named as Apogee PSX Ravel sounds better to you than the file named as Mytek AD Ravel, then there is nothing more to discuss ... I am sorry ...

Anyone with average ears (not considering any company labels etc.) can probably easily hear that Mytek stereo AD Ravel file sounds a way more open, with more space and more air, especially on the violin sound, more clean and detailed somehow, than the file called PSX 100 Ravel, which also does not sound bad, but not as good as the previous one ... The difference is not dramatic but it is there

I myself am not partial to any company, I am interested ONLY in the sound. If a company XYZ brings a better sounding device than company ABC (Mytek, APogee ...), I will go for it ...

Maybe your claims should have more solid base ...

BTW for anyone interested: you can listen to the mentioned comparison here: http://www.mytekdigital.com/listening_test.htm

[NathanEldred]

If I understand your question correctly, it comes down to the nature of the beast. There is no way around what you are talking about, because any digital conversion is going to change the audio to some extent, some brands and types are going to be closer to what we perceive as reality than others. Even with a pair of $6000 each stereo units (like a dCS), it's still going to change a little.

[ISedlacek]

Thanks, Nathan, you are right ... the beast is imperfect by its very nature ... I am not saying that the mentioned DA AD change in the sound is big, not at all, just very tiny bit loss in the depth or warmth or how you would call it (but, of course. this is the point where mighty Millennia come on the stage and can more than overcompensate this). I am very curious to compare Mytek DA with APogee mini DAC. It will happen in the near future. Maybe the path will become even more transparent ?
Nathan, you are extremely experienced man in pro audio area. What is your personal feeling about Mytek AD DA (also in comparison to other brands AD DAs) ? Unlike you, I do not have so broad field for a direct comparison.

[NathanEldred]

Originally posted by ISedlacek

Nathan, you are extremely experienced man in pro audio area. What is your personal feeling about Mytek AD DA (also in comparison to other brands AD DAs) ? Unlike you, I do not have so broad field for a direct comparison.

I think the Myteks are wonderful. Yes, I do sell them (before Digigeek flames my ass and accuses me of being subversive), but I sell them because I like them, otherwise I wouldn't talk them up so much, I would just shut the hell up. There are lots of great converters, to each his own, just make sure you have an educated opinion rather than one exclusively based on talk (including advice from me). On the other hand, and if I may be so bold, if you've ever talked to me in person or on the phone, you know I'm not gonna bullshit you. Dishonesty carries a very short-term fuse, so to speak, when one's reputation is at hand.

[ISedlacek]

Originally posted by NathanEldred
On the other hand, and if I may be so bold, if you've ever talked to me in person or on the phone, you know I'm not gonna bullshit you. Dishonesty carries a very short-term fuse, so to speak, when one's reputation is at hand.

I can truly confirm that, although you may not remember our telephone talk some time ago. I was interested in buying one very expensive mic which you normally sell and after a short talk you suggested me to buy rather another one, much cheaper, which would however better suit my needs ...

[DigiGeek]

Originally posted by ISedlacek
If you really say that in this very case the sound file named as Apogee PSX Ravel sounds better to you than the file named as Mytek AD Ravel, then there is nothing more to discuss ... I am sorry ...

I did not listen to Ravel, I listened to Evans, and the low mids are better on the PSX-100 as is the imaging. Its not that the Mytek sounds bad, the PSX-100 just sounds better. Maybe the Mytek does sound better on the Ravel than the PSX, but really, who cares. You don't want a PSX, I don't want a PSX, (I don't think Apogee even makes the PSX anymore) you've already got the Mytek and you like it, so be happy. I should not have wasted anyone's time by bringing it up

Bottom line: Nathan is right. There is no lossless converter. If you really want something better, get a Rosetta 800 or a Lavry, otherwise let it go and get back to work!

[ISedlacek]

Originally posted by DigiGeek
I listened to Evans, and the low mids are better on the PSX-100 as is the imaging.

I made the effort to download the Evans stereo AD Mytek and Apogee PSX-100 files. Without any prejudice I thoroughly listened and compared. Again I have to say that I am not a fan of any company, be it Apogee, Mytek etc. , but I am very dedicated and enthusiastic fan of the SOUND (and I own both Mytek and Apogee products). As for these two samples, the sound difference between them is not really small and here are my detailed impressions: PSX 100 sample has as if tiny bit more bass, which may impress for two three seconds, before you find out that the bass is rather of muddy and misty nature, a bit covering the airy and detailed clarity of vocal and other instruments, which are tiny bit "muffled" comparing to Mytek sample. In Mytek sample, the bass is more tight, clear and pronounced, the feeling of space is bigger, the vocal is a lot more warm, detailed and airy and generally the space and instrument location is more clear, airy and more defined. Without any pre-inclination I found (similarly as with Ravel piece) the Mytek sample a class better sounding from all the points of view than PSX-100, without any doubt - if clarity, depth, detail, air, space and pleasant sound remain as our foremost criteria (at least for me they are).
I have yet to listen to PTHD and 888 24 samples of the same pieces (my internet conection is a bit slow, so it needs some time to download). If I find that say PTHD sounds a way better than Mytek, I will not hesitate to tell it...
So far I cannot agree with you on any of your claims ... Mainly because they are not a question of opinion and theoretical arguments, but of a direct experience ...