Recording Sitar

[everglass]

Hi all,

I have a recording session on the weekend where we will be recording Sitar.

Having never recorded Sitar before, I was wondering if anyone could offer any advice. I have a feeling it is best to mic the instrument towards the bridge and where the fingers pluck the instrument, but any further info would help.

Any pictures would also be most helpful.

As for microphone options we have:

Nuemann U87
AT4040
AKG 414
Rode Classic
AKG 451
Nuemann KM184

Pres:
Neve 1073
API 312

I wouldn't think I would need compression. But if so probably lightly with the Cranesong Trakker. (?)

What do you think?

[not_so_new]

I say it all the time but if you are recording an instrument that you have never recorded before do your close mic where you want or where it sounds good or whatever.

Then please for your own good plop up a mic someplace in the room 4 or 5 feet away about 4 or 5 feet off the ground facing the player. Most instruments are listened to at this distance and you can get a very natural sound from most acoustic instruments with this technique.

Sitar players, unless they are very "progressive" are going to want a very natural sound so don't get all crazy with close mics and compression. If you want to go all crazy give yourself an out.

[Berolzheimer]

There's also a resonant "bowl" up high on the neck facing backwards, you should probably mic this too, you may or may not want to use it later. I agree that you'll also want a mic a foot or foot & a half away, just up from the bridge probably, and a pair of good room mics 4 or 5 feet away and maybe another pair near the back wall back if your room is good sounding. But most of alll, use your ears- get your head down near the instrument while the guy's playing & wherever it sounds best to you, put the mic.

[everglass]

Thanks for the ideas.........

I love how technical recording can be ......

"get your head down near the instrument while the guy's playing & wherever it sounds best to you, put the mic".

Excellent advice!

[themaidsroom]

coles 4038

[Baithak]

Hi Everglass,

The closer you mic the sitar, the more sensitive the tone is going to be wrt the position. Even a few mm here and there will make a big difference in tone.
e.g. if you point the mic towards the bridge you will have more of the string twang and less of the wood and the taraf (the sympathetic strings behind the main strings). Also since it is played with a player sitting on the floor, there is a big chance of floor reflections which will cloud the sound. Either a judiciously placed carpet in front of the performer or making the performer sit on the edge of a platform will help in this respect.

Regarding choice of tools any reasonably fast condensor with low hype will do. I have used the 184 with good results but usually prefer the Schoeps CMC6 MK21 if I am "close micing" or the MK41 if I can mic them at about 3 feet.

My preference is to point the mic at the wood of the sitar immediately befow bridge so if it is a right handed player to position the mic to their right about 2 feet of the ground tilted downwards about 2-3 feet away. In a good room, a good omni (I use DPA4003) with a clean preamp will give you the best sound (position will depend on the Rt of the room).

Good luck and PM me if I can help you in any way.

Baithak

[b3player]

Good advise above. Really depends how big you want the sitar.
I needed big and used qtc40s on a jecklin disk about 1/3
up the neck from resonator. 3ft back spread a little wider than Dr. Jecklins reccomendation., >pre>a/d. Huge stunning.
Geo

[Killahurts]

I have found when recording my own sitar that I need to get the mic or mics up and away about three or four feet from the instrument, which is usually close to the floor. The sitar is one of those instruments that "bloom" into the air space they occupy, so I find that mic'ing the field around player gets me closer to that classic sitar sound than close-mic'ing.

Everglass, out of the mics you listed, you would want to pick one that doesn't hype the highs or high-mids too much. For instance, you probably won't like the Rode Classic for this application. I use one or two QTC1's.

I have also found that it's best not to use a HPF when recording, only at mixdown where I have control. Strange as it sounds, correctly capturing the bass frequencies on this instrument is extremely important to the sound

[seaneldon]

Recording Sitar Properly
By Sean Eldon Qualls

Step One:


Step Two:

[Berolzheimer]

Apparently step one was very effective, as you forgot to plug in the mics in step 2.

[seaneldon]

Originally Posted by Berolzheimer

Apparently step one was very effective, as you forgot to plug in the mics in step 2.

I'll plug them in when I'm done drinking so that I can forget that I'm recording a fukking sitar.

[supaheef]

When all else fails (or simply as a safety) place a mic by the player's right ear (or a stereo pair of choice above the player's head). That is where the player is making his/her tonal choices from, be it finger placement, plucking/strumming velocity, everything! If they player is good, then follow their ears, because they will know the instrument better that you.

But don't forget step one from above. Seems to me you could only "truly play" the sitar if you were blunted.

-heath

[nobtwiddler]

Royer SF-12 about 1 or 2 feet in front of the instrument.
A slight bit of compression...
Beautiful~!

Paul
www.millbrooksoundstudios.com

[cdog]

I'd take the KM184 into the API, if its too bright try the 414 but in my experience its just right.

The KM184 gets a horrible wrap here for no good reason, yes, they are brighter than 84s but this in an of itself is not a death sentence in my book, in fact sometimes its perfect and will get you a premixed sound that requires a tiny bit of compression and no eq.

[Zep Dude]

I use two mics. One, as mentioned above, a few feet to the players right angled down towards the wood behind the bridge. Another mic goes about 2 from the neck, facing the neck about 4/5 of the way up. You can angle this mic down the neck or aim it straight. This really captures the resonator strings as well as the twang. Use your ear in both areas and you'll hear the sweet spots.

Sitars can very easily get harsh sounding if you use mics with too much hype. I actually don't like the km184 in this position, although it usually works nicely with acoustic guitars. Last session I did I used a u67 on the neck and a royer on the body and the sound is sitting nicely with no eq in the mix.

[everglass]

Thanks to everyone for their input. I am just about to step into the session. I am currently doing step 1 (above)..... hopefully I will remember to plug the mics in.

I'll let you know how we go.

Everglass

[rwhitney]

I recorded sitar last night, and the player seemed pleased with the sound we got. She told me where to place the mics:

Coles 4040 about 1 ft. in front of the gourd toward the inside of the player, maybe 6 in. from the floor.

Coles 4040 about 1 ft. from in front of, and level with, the middle of the neck; maybe 2 ft. from the floor.

I put an 8'x6' piece of carpet on the floor under her. The mics went into a Daking Mic- Pre IV. (The thumpy perc. bleed is from the pads of a Roland HP-15 being played in the same room.)

Here's a sample, if it uploads:

[effectsnut]

[Keire]

Originally Posted by seaneldon

I'll plug them in when I'm done drinking so that I can forget that I'm recording a fukking sitar.

weird, ive really enjoyed all of the world music gigs ive been apart of.

i really like the sounds of tabla.

[raal]

Originally Posted by rwhitney

Here's a sample, if it uploads:

[minus-sounds.com]

Originally Posted by nobtwiddler

Royer SF-12 about 1 or 2 feet in front of the instrument.
A slight bit of compression...

The sitar has a lot of overtones and resonances and as a result it cries for a ribbon mic.

As Paul and others said, a stereo ribbon mic or two in a Blumlein configuration, but I will suggest a little farther back, maybe 3 to 4, especially if you have a nice room.

Compress, or not, to taste.

[baikonour]

we had good results with a combination of a contact mic on the body and a 414...

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by rwhitney

Here's a sample, if it uploads:

A bit too dark and muffled sounding for my taste...
Who's the Sitar player, a western student of a school in CA?

Daniel

[rwhitney]

Originally Posted by d_fu

Who's the Sitar player, a western student of a school in CA?

Daniel

Her name is Nana Simopoulos. She isn't a student; don't know where she studied. Maybe in Greece?

[wrekdahouse]

this is from an interview to Geoff Emerick... i think he got the best from a sitar ever...



Were you puzzled the first time you had to record a sitar?

[Laughs] No, because I’d worked with other instruments on sessions, and had been listening to the tones and where the sounds came from. The sound of the sitar was so quiet and complex. I think I used Neumann 54s or 56s, which are really nice condenser mics—little tubes you could get right close onto the strings or the soundboard, then probably through a Fairchild, to get this amazing big wall of huge sound.

After that, Ravi Shankar came in and was doing a classical recording in Number 3. And George Harrison, who was friends with him, said to me, “Do you want to come in and see Ravi? Because something’s not quite right.” Well, they had him wired up on a wooden rostrum, and they had a ribbon mic, a 4038, about twenty feet up in the air. And of course, you couldn’t hear anything; he was getting more room than sitar, which was just kind of mush in the background. I was just the young kid and the engineer had been there years and years, so I had to be a bit diplomatic.

[andy_simpson]

For what it's worth, I discussed some recording issues with the last sitar player I recorded (yes Daniel, I know...I know) before the session and he said that the best sitar sound he'd heard until then was recorded via a pickup.

Well, I don't doubt that he'd probably never heard any recording of any note but still the physics of the point struck me as interesting, in that the pickup has no moving parts and therefore has no possibility of mechanical resonance (unlike the microphone), even if the sound of the wood/etc is lost.

Food for thought.

Andy

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by andy_simpson

Well, I don't doubt that he'd probably never heard any recording of any note but still the physics of the point struck me as interesting, in that the pickup has no moving parts and therefore has no possibility of mechanical resonance (unlike the microphone), even if the sound of the wood/etc is lost.

I've admittedly not heard a "pickuped" Sitar, but I wouldn't expect a lot from it. Where would one place it so it will accurately record the sound of both the playing strings and the resonance strings, which are at a certain distance from each other...


Daniel

[andy_simpson]

Originally Posted by d_fu

I've admittedly not heard a "pickuped" Sitar, but I wouldn't expect a lot from it. Where would one place it so it will accurately record the sound of both the playing strings and the resonance strings, which are at a certain distance from each other...

Daniel

Yes, of course, I wouldn't expect a good sound out of this approach.

I was just intrigued by the idea of having no moving mass system, which certainly has some advantages in theory over the microphone (even if they don't outweight the disadvantages).

I'd love to hear a recording, if anybody has one?!

Andy

[big country]

I think Id go with the km184
and try to dig up a binaural for room Mic
for 350.00 I can build you a nice binaural