Pictures of Mic'ed up GUITAR CABS

[andychamp]

Originally Posted by mwagener

The ampswitcher in the first picture is "The Sentinel" from Creation Audio Labs. Mine is a one-off 2-into-20, but they make a 2 into 10 as a product. (...)

Care to share details about the Randall modules at the bottom?
I don't think I ever saw the "Wagener" or the "Mandarine Stonerverb" being offered to the public . Any plans for that?

[goneracin]

Originally Posted by mwagener

Current session with LORDI from Finland

Nice setup.
BTW, I still owe you the test drive of the Sonoma. Its in Nashville, so its closer..... Sorry for being behind on it, but its been in use and i couldnt get it.
Bob Reinhardt

[LeMauce]

Originally Posted by Ollie

I do not get the concept of shoving a mic right up to the cone of a speaker. Does not make a lot of sense to me. It is like shoving my ear right up against my monitor so I can hear what is going on. It doesn't make a lot of sense. The complexity that is going to happen will start to develop after a bit of distance from the speaker.
So why is it that everyone likes to shove it all against the speaker?

RE-20 in to the cone = natural compression, same for sm7b/sm57 = in your face sound!

[Turdadactyl]

Originally Posted by mwagener

The ampswitcher in the first picture is "The Sentinel" from Creation Audio Labs. Mine is a one-off 2-into-20, but they make a 2 into 10 as a product. No loss, no matter how many amps you combine, no transformer either.

So the guitar goes into an MW-1 then from there DI into one track of Nuendo and also via the boost out into the Sentinel. From there it gets sent to any amount of amps necessary for the particular tone we are looking for in that song.

The second picture is the speaker patchbay. For this session I have all the cabs hooked up to different amps (except the Fender cab on top), and miced with 13 mics, so we can combine any amp and mic and speaker really fast. They all go through pre-amps (mostly Chandler TG2s, TG Channel, Germanium and Seventh Circle A12s) and then into line in on the SSL. Out through the SSL REC channel and a few choice pieces of outboard into one track of Nuendo. We are getting some killer tones with that setup.

Very cool setup. What kind of power amp are you running those MTS modules through?

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by andychamp

Care to share details about the Randall modules at the bottom?
I don't think I ever saw the "Wagener" or the "Mandarine Stonerverb" being offered to the public . Any plans for that?

Those modules where modified by Antonin Salva of Salvation mods in the Check Republic. You send him a high gain Randall module and he modifies it. The "Wagener" is basically a Soldano mod with a few extra switches as per my request. He can't call it a Soldano for legal reasons, so he asked me what name I wanted do give it. Since I had my own suggestions for the mod I told him to call it "Wagener" and only make one. The front plate is snake skin and it glows in the dark. Here is a link to his module pictures: cherry-band | mts madness – rajce.net

The Mandarine is one of his standard mods (with a few extra switches inside ). It's based on an Orange amp but again he can't call it that. I also have a "CUSTOM 3".

The Wagener is THE most used amp module at my studio, it's on almost every track, mostly mixed in with the Metropoulos 67 Superbass, the 1978 JMP 2203 and the IA120

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by Turdadactyl

Very cool setup. What kind of power amp are you running those MTS modules through?

A couple of Randall RT 2/50 with 6L6 and EL34 tubes in each.

[andychamp]

I looked at the pics on Antonin's page. I like his humor in naming & designing the modules, you know right away where they're coming from. If they sound half as good as they look, they must be awesome!
The glow-in-the-dark faceplate on the Wagener is brilliant.

On another note, I recently layered and quad-tracked a high-gain Engl with a gnarly Marshall tone: instant "Tool" tone. Just to show that you can successfully record highgain sounds, as long as you throw some clarity into the equation.
Engl Savage 60 -> Vintage 30#1 -> tranny-less57 -> Germ
Vintage30#2 -> Brauner Phanthera -> API 512
Marshall Silver Jubilee -> G12-65 -> Sennheiser 421 -> API 512
Vintage30 -> R121 -> GR500NV
(sorry, no pics)

I plan to experiment a lot more with layering in the future, there's gazillions of tones to be found.

[mwagener]

Layering is the ticket. I sometimes mix together 3 or 4 Randall modules with any number of amps. Coming to think of it, I have always done that, even in the early 80s

[Louderock]

Originally Posted by mwagener

Layering is the ticket. I sometimes mix together 3 or 4 Randall modules with any number of amps. Coming to think of it, I have always done that, even in the early 80s

How are you handling the unbalanced 1/4" cable runs out to the tracking room for combo amps? Are you boosting the signal or are you somehow converting to a balanced signal?

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by Louderock

How are you handling the unbalanced 1/4" cable runs out to the tracking room for combo amps? Are you boosting the signal or are you somehow converting to a balanced signal?

The guitar is plugged into a CreationAudioLabs MW-1 which makes it low impedance on the output (37 ohm). From there it goes into the Sentinel, which also has low impedance outputs. No problems with hum or signal loss whatsoever.

[Louderock]

Originally Posted by mwagener

The guitar is plugged into a CreationAudioLabs MW-1 which makes it low impedance on the output (37 ohm). From there it goes into the Sentinel, which also has low impedance outputs. No problems with hum or signal loss whatsoever.

Cool. Does that Low Z signal travel out to the combo amps through a XLR cable? If so, how do you convert it back to a signal the amp would want to see?

[Dean Roddey]

I'm definitely still a newbie at the guitar micing thing. I started out with dynamics close mic'd, because that's almost all you ever see when folks post pictures. But more and more I've begun to figure out that that's just not the sound I'm looking for. Even in my crappy sounding apartment I'm getting results more like I want by considerably more distant mic'ing.

I added a guitar track a couple nights ago and ended up with a condensor a few feet almost directly over the top of the amp. You'd think that would just be about one of the worst possible places, but it sounded right. I presume it was getting a little from the back (open back cab) and a little from the front. It sounded quite present, not muffled as you'd think it would.

Even a dynamic back three or four feet to me sounds way better than close mic'ing, at least for the type of music I'm trying to do, which is pretty old school.

You just end up with much more natural dimension to the tracks, and it seems to me perhaps less need for artificial ambience. I can't get any seriuos ambience in a space as small as my apartment, but it does just seem to create a more natural, pushed back sound, which can be present without being harsh and without so much low end buildup, so it fits into the mix nicely.

[andychamp]

@Dean Roddey: I discovered dynamic omnis (EV 635a & RFT DM622) for gtr. amps a while back.
It takes some trial-and-error to get the distance right, especially with the whole band in the same room, but when you nail it, it's instant Rolling Stones.
The low end doesn't change as dramatically with distance as with cardioids, so you can use distance to taylor the bleed/ambience to your liking. And the ambience, along with the slightly band-passed tone, really adds size to the guitars.

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by Louderock

Cool. Does that Low Z signal travel out to the combo amps through a XLR cable? If so, how do you convert it back to a signal the amp would want to see?

No, it's a normal Mogami 4x2 cable, meaning 4 cores with 2 conductors each. The signal chain is actually balanced all the way to the output socket in the tracking room, but when you plug in an unbalanced cable to connect the amp, it will make the whole line unbalanced. Since the impedance is so low on the cable, it doesn't matter that it is unbalanced, amps like to see a low impedance load on the input.

[therealbigd]

So, on the Marshall that's:

sE Ribbon Tube mic on the left.
Shure SM57 on the right.



And, on the Mesa, that's:

MD421, side-on to the top left speaker.
SM57, on-axis to the top right speaker.
sE ribbon mic, on the bottom left speaker.
Heil PR40, on the bottom right.

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

I'm definitely still a newbie at the guitar micing thing. I started out with dynamics close mic'd, because that's almost all you ever see when folks post pictures. But more and more I've begun to figure out that that's just not the sound I'm looking for. Even in my crappy sounding apartment I'm getting results more like I want by considerably more distant mic'ing.

I added a guitar track a couple nights ago and ended up with a condensor a few feet almost directly over the top of the amp. You'd think that would just be about one of the worst possible places, but it sounded right. I presume it was getting a little from the back (open back cab) and a little from the front. It sounded quite present, not muffled as you'd think it would.

Even a dynamic back three or four feet to me sounds way better than close mic'ing, at least for the type of music I'm trying to do, which is pretty old school.

You just end up with much more natural dimension to the tracks, and it seems to me perhaps less need for artificial ambience. I can't get any seriuos ambience in a space as small as my apartment, but it does just seem to create a more natural, pushed back sound, which can be present without being harsh and without so much low end buildup, so it fits into the mix nicely.

To me it entirely depends on the room itself. I have worked in rooms (mostly smaller ones) where the mic didn't sound good close to the speaker. On some albums we miked the guitar with 16 mikes on 4 cabinets in three different rooms.

The Royer R121 (my main mic for electric guitar) is a figure 8, like most Ribbon mics, and picks up almost the same amount of sound from the back of the mic. My room is very "roomy" sounding, so the close micing makes more sense in that case. This will be different in any room though, and it is also a matter of taste and choice.

I even have recorded two cabs facing each other, wired with reversed polarity and we stuck a figure 8 mic in the middle (I think it was an AKG 414 of some kind) and it sounded great. On one album we had 4 Marshall stacks (8 cabinets) in a square with an omni mic in the middle, it sounded awesome.

Do whatever works but DO experiment, it's fun. NO RULES.

[Kolt45]

This thread is almost 6 years old and still going,

I use a 57 with an at2020 mic in the back for a room mic.

dont usually keep the 2020 take though

[tazman]

When layering many amps, do you guys re track or do you run the recorded DI's signal to multiple amps (i.e. same performance to all the amps)?

Thanks,

[nobtwiddler]

This mornings set up for a well known guitarist.
Overdubs for the next few days.

[heyman]

This is directed to MWagener or anyone else..

"I even have recorded two cabs facing each other, wired with reversed polarity and we stuck a figure 8 mic in the middle (I think it was an AKG 414 of some kind) and it sounded great."

Mike, can you do this with 2 diffrent sounding amps? Lets say you have a Mesa on one side and a Marshall on the other.. Place a Royer in between and go... What if 1 cab is not wired for reverse, can it be edited with a plug in later or some other technique?

[duffy878]

Originally Posted by tazman

When layering many amps, do you guys re track or do you run the recorded DI's signal to multiple amps (i.e. same performance to all the amps)?

Thanks,

Last session we used a splitter to go to a silverface Vibrochamp, a blackface Priceton, and a Silvertone 1484->2x12 with a Greenback and a Redcoat)

More often than not I personally prefer multiple takes on multiple amps

You get different effects each way and you just have to pick what works. With the same performance things seem just thicker and with more muscle, and with doing multiple takes you get more of a doubling effect. I really enjoy the little variances that you only get with doing multiple takes, but to each his own.

If I remember correctly we used a mix of dynamics, SM-57, M-80, RE-20, SM-7B, RE-16, and an i5.

no pics. oops.

[nobtwiddler]

Heyman;
If the second speaker cabinets polarity isn't reversed while tracking, then the sound from that cabinet combined with the other cabinet into the one microphone will be out of phase, and the resulting sound will be terrible.
So the reverse in polarity on one cabinet has to take place right then during tracking.
Remember that a figure of 8 microphones front side is positive polarity, while the rear side is reversed, so this is why you must flip the second cabinets phase. As you can't flip the phase on the rear of the mic!
Hope this helps!

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by nobtwiddler

Heyman;
If the second speaker cabinets polarity isn't reversed while tracking, then the sound from that cabinet combined with the other cabinet into the one microphone will be out of phase, and the resulting sound will be terrible.
So the reverse in polarity on one cabinet has to take place right then during tracking.
Remember that a figure of 8 microphones front side is positive polarity, while the rear side is reversed, so this is why you must flip the second cabinets phase. As you can't flip the phase on the rear of the mic!
Hope this helps!

thumbsup

[pan60]

Originally Posted by nobtwiddler

This mornings set up for a well known guitarist.
Overdubs for the next few days.

always love the pics you post Paul!
pan

[j-uk]

Originally Posted by Ron Vogel

Should I have used a blast pad to protect the 57 from the 5 watts of fury?


I actually started to use a new technique where I don't even use mics at all, it sounds awesome until the drugs wear off!

Wow, that's a lovely looking supro. Massive want!!
And the princeton..., what can you say, it's sooo good you don't need to mike it

[nobtwiddler]

Hey Pan....
Thanks for the complement, as I do my best to please the artists.
In this case a guitarist.
Haha
I wish I could take more photos, but as you know sometimes, it's just not possible.
And othertimes it just not acceptable, since some artists freak out when there is a camera present.
And I respect that, and their wishes...


In the meantime I LOVE the post and pic's by Ron.
Now there's a set up to aspire to!
Great stuff.
I really love small amps!

[tazman]

Yeah, that's what I usually do, re track on different amps, but when I saw Mr. Wagener with a dozen or so amps, I was wondering if they are re tracking for each amp.

Originally Posted by duffy878

Last session we used a splitter to go to a silverface Vibrochamp, a blackface Priceton, and a Silvertone 1484->2x12 with a Greenback and a Redcoat)

More often than not I personally prefer multiple takes on multiple amps

You get different effects each way and you just have to pick what works. With the same performance things seem just thicker and with more muscle, and with doing multiple takes you get more of a doubling effect. I really enjoy the little variances that you only get with doing multiple takes, but to each his own.

If I remember correctly we used a mix of dynamics, SM-57, M-80, RE-20, SM-7B, RE-16, and an i5.

no pics. oops.

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by tazman

Yeah, that's what I usually do, re track on different amps, but when I saw Mr. Wagener with a dozen or so amps, I was wondering if they are re tracking for each amp.

Actually last I counted it was around 50 different amps

I combine a few different amps/cabinets to get one sound for one performance/track. Then I normally overdub another performance for track #2 with a different guitar and different amp setup and put them left and right. Then I normally record a third performance to thicken up the chorus, again different amps or settings and different guitar and I keep that in the middle with a bit more room on it.

That's just one way, there is no actual rules. I might do different things for different songs

[Blast9]

Originally Posted by nobtwiddler

This mornings set up for a well known guitarist.
Overdubs for the next few days.

Wow Paul - ain't seen Kitty Hawk stuff for years - the only Kity Hawk guy I can think of is Reb Beach from Winger, but I can't imagine he's into Ampegs n Fenders n stuff

[nobtwiddler]

Years ago, I had a endorsement deal with Kitty Hawk, and they gave me a few of their amps as a pro user.
Used them for a few Mountain / Leslie West records I produced way back then.
They actually sounded great, till all hell broke loose...

The US importer (Latin Percussion) at the time stopped selling them because of a design flaw, that would make some of the amps burst into flames.
Trust me I saw it happen a few different times.

Anyhow, I had given a few of mine to my amp guy, and he figured out what was wrong with the circuit in a few minutes, and it was a simple fix.
So I called Kitty Hawk, and they didn't want to hear anything from me, told me their design was perfect, and there was nothing wrong with their amps?
Go figure...

So when Latin Percussion called me and said they were gonna sell all their remaining stock, I bought it all!
Heads, Combos, and cabinets.
Had the mod work done to the amps, and sold what I didn't need.

Since then, I have sold all but a few of the combos, (which I love) and 4 small 1 x 12 cabinets, that each have different speakers in them, which I use all the time.
Two of which are pictured in the photo.