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| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
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| 500 series pres between API and 1073 sound? | Dirty Halo | High end | 8 | 10th April 2006 12:58 AM |
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| | #1 |
| Gear Head Join Date: May 2006 Location: STOCKHOLM, SWEDEN
Posts: 58
| 500 series preamp most similar to 1073...? Hi! Is there any 500 series preamp that is similar/close to the 1073 character? /Peter |
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| | #2 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: 500 Series Land/San Antonio,Tx
Posts: 1,439
| my guess would be a custom "neve-ish" pre from Eisen Audio. im sure it doesnt sound EXACTLY like a neve, but i would think thats your best shot in the 500 series. mine should be ready pretty soon also might want to check out the OSA MP1-L3
__________________ "I remember one time Kevin Garnett was mushing him, and shoving him in the face; and Tim Duncan didn't do anything, he didn't react. He just kicked Kevin Garnett's a--, and won the damn championship. You know what I'm sayin'? That's gangsta. Everybody can show emotion, dunk on somebody, scream and be real cocky; but Tim Duncan is a ... he's a pimp."-Ron Artest |
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| | #3 |
| Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 233
| I'm sure we'll get flamed, but I'm interested as well.. Or maybe put it this way, which 500 series module has some of the basic character of the "N camp" rather than the "A camp". |
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| | #4 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: 500 Series Land/San Antonio,Tx
Posts: 1,439
| Quote:
remember on GS you have to say its "neve-ish" "neve-esque", "kinda like a neve", "some definite neve qualities!", "about 2/5 of the lowend of a neve"...just some examples to avoid getting banned from the site...juuuust kidding! ![]() but seriously, Eisen is the only one who uses the 10468 transformer in his custom pre for the 500 series...so thats gotta be a good thing, right? i know theres a bunch of other bells and whistles that go into it all, but ive heard nothing but awesome things about his pres.
__________________ "I remember one time Kevin Garnett was mushing him, and shoving him in the face; and Tim Duncan didn't do anything, he didn't react. He just kicked Kevin Garnett's a--, and won the damn championship. You know what I'm sayin'? That's gangsta. Everybody can show emotion, dunk on somebody, scream and be real cocky; but Tim Duncan is a ... he's a pimp."-Ron Artest | |
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| | #5 |
| Gear Head Join Date: May 2006 Location: STOCKHOLM, SWEDEN
Posts: 58
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| | #6 | |
| Gear Head Join Date: May 2006 Location: STOCKHOLM, SWEDEN
Posts: 58
| Quote:
Eisen webpage...? Thanks, Peter | |
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| | #7 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: 500 Series Land/San Antonio,Tx
Posts: 1,439
| http://www.eisenaudio.com/ea/index.p...tpage&Itemid=1 you can either get DIY kits from him and build the pre yourself, or have him custom build you a pre...endless choices of transformers and opamps. i think my next will be a 312 w/ jensen input transformer and a melcor 1731 opamp...thats gonna be one mean preamp.
__________________ "I remember one time Kevin Garnett was mushing him, and shoving him in the face; and Tim Duncan didn't do anything, he didn't react. He just kicked Kevin Garnett's a--, and won the damn championship. You know what I'm sayin'? That's gangsta. Everybody can show emotion, dunk on somebody, scream and be real cocky; but Tim Duncan is a ... he's a pimp."-Ron Artest |
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| | #8 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,927
| I have the Eisen 'neve-ish- pre, and the osa L3, and the A-designs P1, and the Eisen is hands down winner in the vocal department. Beefy and sizzly at the same time. Makes the other two sound kind of bland in comparison. The only 500 pre I've heard about that might get close is the Purple Biz, which has two gain stages, so you can dial in more color if you want to. But whether or not it's a 'neve-ish' color, I couldn't tell you. The only experience I've had with a real Neve is watching Neve Campbell movies.
__________________ "You're either with a native DAW, or you're with the terrorists." G.W. Busch Lite |
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| | #9 | |
| Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boston,MA Providence,RI
Posts: 9,399
| Quote:
For transformers, it's the L01166 output transformer that is most contributing to the transformer sound of a Neve module. Call me when someone figures out a way to make that one work... Until then you're all wasting your time trying to find the Neve sound in a 500 series module. You're Eisen pre is more sizzly than the P1? My experience is that the P1 and Pacifica are more sizzly than my 1073's... By sizzly, I'm assuming you mean brighter in the upper high end? | |
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| | #10 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: 500 Series Land/San Antonio,Tx
Posts: 1,439
| Quote:
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__________________ "I remember one time Kevin Garnett was mushing him, and shoving him in the face; and Tim Duncan didn't do anything, he didn't react. He just kicked Kevin Garnett's a--, and won the damn championship. You know what I'm sayin'? That's gangsta. Everybody can show emotion, dunk on somebody, scream and be real cocky; but Tim Duncan is a ... he's a pimp."-Ron Artest | |
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| | #11 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: 500 Series Land/San Antonio,Tx
Posts: 1,439
| Quote:
__________________ "I remember one time Kevin Garnett was mushing him, and shoving him in the face; and Tim Duncan didn't do anything, he didn't react. He just kicked Kevin Garnett's a--, and won the damn championship. You know what I'm sayin'? That's gangsta. Everybody can show emotion, dunk on somebody, scream and be real cocky; but Tim Duncan is a ... he's a pimp."-Ron Artest | |
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| | #12 | |
| Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boston,MA Providence,RI
Posts: 9,399
| Quote:
Look I understand, and I know what you're saying, and I'm not doubting that it's a quality piece. I've just seen these threads for the last couple of years with people looking for a 500 series Neve type preamp, and they always end in disappointment for those chasing that sound. The point I'm trying to relate to everyone is that the 10468 does not make any preamp sound "more" like a Neve. You can put that tranny in any mic preamp, and it will not make it more Neve. What the rest of the circuit is comprised of is much more important. If the only thing that makes this pre like a Neve in design is that it uses the 10468, then it will quite likely not sound like a Neve. Pop the side off of yours and tell me if you see something that looks like the thing all the way to the right: ![]() That is called a transistor and is a major contributor to the Neve sound. | |
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| | #13 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: 500 Series Land/San Antonio,Tx
Posts: 1,439
| Quote:
oh and mine wont be shipped till next week i believe. but ill try and report about this when i do get it. maybe uncle duncan could fill us in. or maybe Jens will see this thread and tell us what the deal is... oooohhh Jeeennns...
__________________ "I remember one time Kevin Garnett was mushing him, and shoving him in the face; and Tim Duncan didn't do anything, he didn't react. He just kicked Kevin Garnett's a--, and won the damn championship. You know what I'm sayin'? That's gangsta. Everybody can show emotion, dunk on somebody, scream and be real cocky; but Tim Duncan is a ... he's a pimp."-Ron Artest | |
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| | #14 |
| Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 193
| It was mentioned in a thread a few months ago that Vintage Design are scaling their modules down to fit 500 series racks. |
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| | #15 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: 500 Series Land/San Antonio,Tx
Posts: 1,439
| do you have a link to their website? thanks!
__________________ "I remember one time Kevin Garnett was mushing him, and shoving him in the face; and Tim Duncan didn't do anything, he didn't react. He just kicked Kevin Garnett's a--, and won the damn championship. You know what I'm sayin'? That's gangsta. Everybody can show emotion, dunk on somebody, scream and be real cocky; but Tim Duncan is a ... he's a pimp."-Ron Artest |
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| | #16 |
| Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boston,MA Providence,RI
Posts: 9,399
| http://www.vintagedesign.se/en06/enframe2.htm These modules are not 500 series format and don't work off of the same voltage. They would require a complete re-design to work in 500 series format. It has nothing to do with making the module itself smaller or larger, and all to do with making it work on the bi-polar API psu. I'm not holding my breath for someone to make the circuit work on this PSU. Maybe one day, but until then we could better spend our time pondering our place in the universe or why is the sky blue, etc.... ![]() |
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| | #17 |
| Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 193
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| | #18 |
| Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,760
| To ACCURATELY reproduce a 1073 style preamp, you need a +24V dc rail. The 500 series is +/-15V. You could try and run the 1073 circuit on the split supplies, but then it would be different. You could fit a DC-DC convertor to step the voltage up, but there would be noise issues with this, and I doubt you could fit that and the preamp circuitry onto the card, unless it was 2 slots wide. Tony is correct, a big part of the sound of the 1073 is the 2N3055 output transistor and the transformer used in conjuction with it. These transformers are physically large, and would need 2 slots to accomodate it. But, anything's possible.
__________________ innovative outboard processing |
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| | #19 | |
| Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boston,MA Providence,RI
Posts: 9,399
| Quote: Also from post #10 in the same thread... Jens from Eisen says he's using the Purple op amp and steel transformer. So, it appears he is not using a "2N3055" transistor based design. This does not mean he is not making a good product... just that it is not a Neve transistor circuit. It shares a similar op amp design to what many of the other 500 series modules have. Last edited by TonyBelmont; 2nd November 2006 at 08:01 AM. Reason: Edited for clarity on the topic of the 2N3055 transistor | |
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| | #20 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: 500 Series Land/San Antonio,Tx
Posts: 1,439
| we need to find someone with an Eisen "neve-ish" pre and a real neve as well. A-B test...? i think so! id do the test myself, but of course, i aint got no real neve on me ![]()
__________________ "I remember one time Kevin Garnett was mushing him, and shoving him in the face; and Tim Duncan didn't do anything, he didn't react. He just kicked Kevin Garnett's a--, and won the damn championship. You know what I'm sayin'? That's gangsta. Everybody can show emotion, dunk on somebody, scream and be real cocky; but Tim Duncan is a ... he's a pimp."-Ron Artest |
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| | #21 | |
| Gear nut Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: L.I.C., New York, U.S.A.
Posts: 110
| Quote:
Concerning sonic authenticity, I never said my "neve-ish" 500 pre sounds like a 1073, only that I think it possesses some of the same rich qualities. I believe it was a customer who came to the former conclusion. | |
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| | #22 | |
| Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boston,MA Providence,RI
Posts: 9,399
| Quote:
Shit, after reading that quoted sentence you are correct.. I should have said specifically "2N3055 transistor based design", and that is what I meant (I have since added the model number to avoid confusion). But, you would be incorrect in your statement that I am misinformed... I am fairly proficient on these types of designs but don't claim to be the expert by any means. The Purple op amps, like other op amps are comprised of transistors, but your pre doesn't use the 2n3055 transistor in question (that was the point of the post). That particular transistor definitely has a sound (whether we're referring to the Motorola, ST, or ON Semiconductors versions of that transistor). Either way, if you read my posts you would realize that I do know a good amount on the subject. So, please don't accuse me of being misinformed or tell me to educate myself because of a typo...And agreed, it was a customer who came to that conclusion that your pre "probably" sounds like a Neve 1073, he has also yet to receive this pre and was basing this off speculation... that is what sparked all of this conversation. I never accused you of making these claims or said that it is not a good product, because I simply have not seen or heard one. Feel free to point to any flaws in my logic in regards to the Neve designs we have been talking about, as I enjoy intelligent conversation on the subject and regularly debate these topics with friends. Maybe we could talk via PM, as what we are discussing right now is already beyond what many here would understand except for the Geekslutz and preamp designers like Tim. ![]() Also attached for those interested is a picture of the item in question... Here is one of my ST 2N3055 transistors for those who are a little lost with all this talk. | |
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| | #23 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: 500 Series Land/San Antonio,Tx
Posts: 1,439
| Quote:
i still wanna hear Jen's awesome explanation of the pre ![]()
__________________ "I remember one time Kevin Garnett was mushing him, and shoving him in the face; and Tim Duncan didn't do anything, he didn't react. He just kicked Kevin Garnett's a--, and won the damn championship. You know what I'm sayin'? That's gangsta. Everybody can show emotion, dunk on somebody, scream and be real cocky; but Tim Duncan is a ... he's a pimp."-Ron Artest | |
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| | #24 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,368
| why on earth would you want a 1073 sound in a 500 series module, when the P1 would blow it away anyway? ![]() |
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| | #25 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 1,075
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| | #26 | ||
| Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boston,MA Providence,RI
Posts: 9,399
| Quote:
Quote:
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| | #27 |
| Lives for gear | [quote=TonyBelmont;948898]Who cares? I can put a 10468 into any 500 series preamp, and it's still not going to sound anything like a Neve... really it's not even close. I can put Ferrari fenders on my Jeep, but it's not going to drive like a Ferrari. Just because it is a part that is used in a Neve module, does not mean it's the major contributor to the sound. Tanulum caps probably contribute more than the 10468. But, it's really the mix of all the parts that make the mojo. QUOTE] TOTALLY AGREE!!!!!
__________________ Peace. Reuven Amiel. "Get your Focal Monitors!" Send me a PM. "There are no rules, just knowledge, good taste and experimentation" "Music was designed to escape from reality for a moment, not to magnify our fears and problems" |
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