Best ROCK KICK pre for inside and outside or best single pre for inside and outside

[ixnys]

What would be the best pre for inside and outside of the kick drum when it came to doing alternative rock music? My mic inside is either a Beta42 or MD421. My outside mic is either a U49 or a BLUE Bottle w/B6 capsule. I have a pair of Distressors and a LA2A.

Here are the pre's I'm thinking:

Great River MP-2NV (2) $2,150.00 (1) 1,075.00
Chandler LTD-1 (1) $2,100.00
Brent Averill 1272 (2) $1,659.00 (1) $989.00
Brent Averill 1073 (2) $4,500.00 (1) $2,350.00
Daking (1) $1,500.00

So I'm thinking the GR would be best cuz it also would make a great gtr pre..and **** it just seems like it's a pre I need to have. Or, I could go with a different pre for both inside and outside the kick. What would be your choice?

[Dave Martin]

There is no best, but recently I've been using the Universal Audio 2108 pre and a Daking EQ and limiter for kick. Before that (and maybe again one of these days) just a Daking. But all things are subject to change.

[OzNimbus]

YMMV, but I really like the Vintech 1272 on kick mics....

-0z-

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally posted by Dave Martin
There is no best

Not only is it worth quoting but it's worth repeating.

There is no best. If you think there is you're fooling yourself.

[BobbyPeru]

Ixnys, dude, you have, like, 5 post on "The Best Kind Of Pre For XXXX".


Stop the madness.



Bobby Peru
Milwaukee, WI

[dtobocman]

Originally posted by BobbyPeru
Ixnys, dude, you have, like, 5 post on "The Best Kind Of Pre For XXXX".


Stop the madness.

And you know what else? Sometimes it's good to switch it up occasionally for a song or two per album. Who likes a "set in stone" approach for song after song?

Try a 3-4 mic approach once in a while.

If you can afford it, buy a whole bunch of different gear and let the song dictate the approach.

I like tight, slammin' sounds but I also like big washy, rubbery sounds too. It depends on the song. Go listen to the Beatles White Album for a day and you'll understand what I mean.

I like big, washy, slow, colored tube preamp'd sounds for overheads contrasted with fast, agressive close mics on kick and snare sometimes . Other times, I like a fast transients on the overheads and huge, colored, slow sounds on the close mics. See?

Good luck -- curiosity is a wonderful thing. You're a good way there....

BTW, you should start with API -- just my opinion. You should know that the 6-space lunchbox mainframe just dropped in price to $450. You could fill it with preamps AND their totally killer EQs. Just a thought.

[ixnys]

Yeah, I know I threw in a lot of posts, but nonetheless it does help me and it gets me to see more detailed answers on individual pre's. I know there is no best, it's just easier to say sometimes. Since I haven't had time to try out all these pre's yet, I'm first resorting to other peoples views and ideas about them first. I'm trying to put together an arsenal of 13 pre's that can be interchangeable on different musical peices of gear to give me different sounds everytime. I'm still not trying to go overboard in price and spend over 20k. I'm trying to find out if two pre's sound too similar to one another such as all the 1073 replicates.

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by ixnys
I'm trying to find out if two pre's sound too similar to one another such as all the 1073 replicates.

Well, you should know that not all 1073 clones sound similar...

[ixnys]

Ya I know...the Great River for instance. That's a clone, but it seems to have some attributes that make it nicer for lots of stacking. Though a Chandler LTD-1 is suppose to be a very close replicate and so is a Brent Averill 1083 reissue. So I'm saying, would they be TOO similar sounding...sure different but how much? I don't know without ABing.

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by ixnys
...sure different but how much? I don't know without ABing.

I'm afraid that's true. I've heard lots of records that were recorded with ONLY the console preamps - Neve, API, whatever. You're really going to have to AB your choices in the end, and choose the ones that work for you.

[Jason Poulin]

MP2-NV makes one hell of a KICK!

keep that API for the toms and get some NV into that bass drum.

2 channels... boom, click, boom, click... blend that together. blick blick blick.

How's that for a Kick!~



haha

good luck buddy. All those pres are great. That's just MY preference

Jason

[jon]

Every session is different.

FWIW I tried API vs SSL J vs TG2 vs GML pres on rock toms the other week and the API was my least favorite of the three.

[DirkB]

Hi Jon,

That sounds like a cool comparison, I hope the toms were well tuned .

Could you describe the difference the preamps made, compared to eachother and how much difference the preamps made in the whole chain, compared with mic placement/mic etc.?

I know describing sound is difficult, but these are exactly the kind of tests I'm looking for but definitely won't be able to carry out in my humble space...


Greetings,
Dirk

[jon]

The differences were not earthshaking, but it does make a difference to me. All were usable.

To my mind, the pre is less important than the following : player, kit, room, mic & placement, recording media. What IS nice on a "High End" session is to have a palette of pre colors to add tone contrast and variety to a session.

[GearHunter]

1272 or api 512. For a mic, try an Audio Technica ATM25 or Shure SM7, as opposed to the usual. 1272 w/ the ATM25....schweeet! Real chesty, heartpunchy kik!

[ixnys]

While were on the subject of kick drums, what mics are known for micing the inside of the kick? I use a Shure beta52. I have access to MD421's and heard those were good for the inside as well. Aside from an Audix D6 and a D112 what are other good inside of kick mics?

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by ixnys
While were on the subject of kick drums, what mics are known for micing the inside of the kick? I use a Shure beta52. I have access to MD421's and heard those were good for the inside as well. Aside from an Audix D6 and a D112 what are other good inside of kick mics?

Lets see - I don't like the D112 at all, and the Audix, while useable, didn't excite me that much. For contemporary sounds, I usually use a Beta 52, and when I want something different, I'll usually go for an Elecvtrovoice RE-20. But I've used 421's, SM-57's, 441's, and even things like those old Altec mics shaped kind of like footballs.

And by the way, you don't HAVE to use two mics on the kick drum - a lot of the time, one will be all you need.

[GearHunter]

what are other good inside of kick mics?

The Audio Technica ATM25 is really good. So is the Shure SM7B. Th RE20 is a classic. Once in a while I use the Beyer M88, which is an all-around great mic to have. It's a hand-held vocal dynamic designed for stage--and for that it beats the pants off a 58--but I like it in the studio for toms, horns, electric guitars, even the occasional vocal track.

those old Altec mics shaped kind of like footballs.

That is the famous Altec "Birdcage" it's a World War II era ribbon. Ever see the old films of Bob Hope doing the USO show to our boys over there? My shop actually has one in-stock right now. they sound pretty damn good. Real dark, but fat as hell.

[ixnys]

Originally posted by ixnys
While were on the subject of kick drums, what mics are known for micing the inside of the kick? I use a Shure beta52. I have access to MD421's and heard those were good for the inside as well. Aside from an Audix D6 and a D112 what are other good inside of kick mics?

Ya, but I really get a more defined kick with 2 mics...It seems to capture it better.

[jbuntz]

Sometimes it will be less defined due to phase issues which can never be completely rectified if you have two heads on the drum.

[ixnys]

But nonetheless, if you have the option during mixdown it's nice. For me though, I seem to prefer it to a single mic.

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally posted by ixnys
Ya, but I really get a more defined kick with 2 mics...It seems to capture it better.

Define how you hear defined. If your looking for an attacky kind of definition then one mic is where it's at. If your looking for a little more boom and low end shape then it's two mics. I usually put up two mics on kick but still get the best definition with one.

[ixnys]

Well everything you said was correct. I love the attack 1 mic gives inside, but I also like the boom one gets from micing the kick outside. By defined I mean you get to hear more aspects of the kick; you get a bigger picture...you hear the attack and boom. I can understand though that 2 mics may give off TOO much information and could hog up the frequencies in a mix. Though it seems once I solo the FOK the kick sounds weak and thin. With it, the kick sounds full...I guess I like that low end rumble.

What I am doing now:

D12 > 1272 > Distressor.
The rest of the kit is all API 312's.

Is this the best? Probably not, I am a hack.
But, I like it and you might.

I have also used a D112 in this as well
and sometimes an 87 > API outside with it.

Lastly, I would add that the AT ATM25 is a
great mic that is way underated. Toms and
kik both shine through this mic. Toms especially.


David

[patrox247]

I'll say what I always say about drum preamps.
Chandler TG2.
The TG2 has a really nice character to it that makes for a great drum mix. I'm using them on all drums with the exception of the snare top which I have been enjoying the UA 610's and overheads which I've always liked Neves. The TG2 are thick and smooth without losing thier punch.

[jon]

I'll second the vote for the ATM25 for inside the kick...that mic has won most of the time for me on that application for the past 3 years. And we have quite a few kick drum mics:

ATM25
Beta52
RE20
D112
D12
421
SM57
U47fet
U47
M88

The D112 and Beta52 inside, along with the U47fet and RE20 outside, are by far the most commonly used mics by freelancers from what I see.

The ATM25 is my favorite for inside, followed by the Beta52, and U47 or U47fet outside.