Using Waves SSL 4000 as a compressor in Chain..

[drakewire]

So, I have an idea that maybe someone can blast or praise before I attempt it. Here is my setup...

Onyx 1640 Modded w/firewire
UA 2276
Mojave MA-200
Nuendo

Now here is where I want to get creative... Using my onyx I want to go line out to a little Focusrite Saffire in chain with an additional computer 24 bit. I want to use Waves SSL 4000 channel feature on each Send going into another computer. would this be necessary or should I just stick with using the UA- 2276 without the SSL Plugins?

from an ideological standpoint. The chain would use the same concept as an actual compressor in the chain... IE... If I take the Onyx Firewire port and out put it into one computer with the SSL 4000 plug-ins, then Daisy Chain it into another computer the output should be similar to the real thing, plus I could run a crap load of instances of SSL 4000.... What does everyone else think?

[AlphaDingo]

How did you have your onyx modded?

[fastlane]

I sorry to tell you this, but that in no way will give you the SSL sound!!!

If I get you right you want to use the plugin in the recording chain??

This is pointless.
You can use the plugin as an insert, the sound would be the same as if you record "through" it.

Also it's nearly always best to record without compression or eq and add it later, if you record the perfect performance and then realise there's too much compression then you're stuck with it. It's safer to add it later.

And although the SSL plugins are good they still aren't the real thing, if only!!!

One more point, if you really want to try it you can route a channel input through any plugin in nuendo, you wouldn't need a 2nd PC

give it a go anyway, the best way to learn is by trial and error

[drakewire]

My Onyx is modded with the EQ option set in Pre so that I can use it in the chain...
Fastlane... LOL
I realize the only thing that will give me the SSL sound is approximately 80,000 dollars.. But... LOL Unless you are listening on some Adams or a real audiophile, the plugins are pretty convincing. Even in the insert portion of Nuendo.
Here is the problem with using as an insert in Nuendo. Sound goes in from a Mic Pre staight to the AD/DA convertor with no compression in the chain. This is counter intuitive and doesnt always sound good. So, as a cheap SSL method, you could very well bypass the AD/DA convertor on the Onyx then Line out to the Computer running the SSL4000 plug-ins set on monitor then go to DAW. By using the second computer, there is genuine SSL emulation using psuedo hardware and software when tracking. I did try it and it sound much much better... Ill make a sound clip and post it... Then compare it to a real SSL... There isnt much difference. Although, to be quite honest I still love my UA anyway...

Originally Posted by fastlane

I sorry to tell you this, but that in no way will give you the SSL sound!!!

If I get you right you want to use the plugin in the recording chain??

This is pointless.
You can use the plugin as an insert, the sound would be the same as if you record "through" it.

Also it's nearly always best to record without compression or eq and add it later, if you record the perfect performance and then realise there's too much compression then you're stuck with it. It's safer to add it later.

And although the SSL plugins are good they still aren't the real thing, if only!!!

One more point, if you really want to try it you can route a channel input through any plugin in nuendo, you wouldn't need a 2nd PC

give it a go anyway, the best way to learn is by trial and error

[danasti]

Originally Posted by drakewire

So, as a cheap SSL method, you could very well bypass the AD/DA convertor on the Onyx then Line out to the Computer running the SSL4000 plug-ins set on monitor then go to DAW. By using the second computer, there is genuine SSL emulation using psuedo hardware and software when tracking.

You still have to use a Ad/Da converter to use the plug-ins.

Adding another computer in the recording "chain" isn't going to give you any more of "genuine" ssl emulation.

All you are doing is completely over thinking a really simple and common recording situation. No matter how complex you dream it up to be; it all comes down to maximizing headroom, good mic technique, healthy equipment and most importantly, talent.

Originally Posted by drakewire

I did try it and it sound much much better... Ill make a sound clip and post it... Then compare it to a real SSL... There isnt much difference. Although, to be quite honest I still love my UA anyway...

Well if it sounds good to you use it. There is actually a ton of information posted on GS about SSL consoles and plugins. Tons already posted here about the waves ssl bundle.

It's good to know that you think there isn't much difference between a plugin and a real ssl eq and dynamics section.

[drakewire]

I guess Im one of the lucky guys that know what the SSL sounds like since I work in a studio that does have one... At home, Ive been playing around with emulating the exact sound... So this is what I did. I took a Chandler pre then ran it straight into the computer using a Focusrite Saffire that Ive had for ages... I was running Waves SSL 4000 Channel then I outputed this to the Onyx Board and then back to another computer with Nuendo. Tried it out... sounds okay... Here is a few second sound sample... I miked the drums with a couple of Mojave MA-200 and a few TLM 103's over head with a . BY THE WAY THIS IS MY SONG IM WORKING ON, NO VOx yet. This is just a rough mix not done by any stretch... I just did a quick maximize for volume since it was recorded -6db... I do realize there is a lot of bass... like I said Im still working on the final mix... But the SSL glue is kind of there... what do you think?

[RoundBadge]

It's totally beyond me why you would want to run your stuff through more conversion just to use the same plug on another computer ..
youre just degrading the sound by converting it twice
But if it sounds better to you..
I'd be curious to here the ITB vs. the tracked through the plug and extra conversion version

[norman_nomad]

Originally Posted by drakewire

Here is the problem with using as an insert in Nuendo. Sound goes in from a Mic Pre staight to the AD/DA convertor with no compression in the chain. This is counter intuitive and doesnt always sound good. So, as a cheap SSL method, you could very well bypass the AD/DA convertor on the Onyx then Line out to the Computer running the SSL4000 plug-ins set on monitor then go to DAW. By using the second computer, there is genuine SSL emulation using psuedo hardware and software when tracking. I did try it and it sound much much better...

OK, but how are you getting it into the second computer without AD/DA conversion... magic?

Tracking to Nuendo and monitoring your signal with the effect on the insert will give you the EXACT same sound. And you only need 1 computer to do this!

Try it.

[fastlane]

Originally Posted by drakewire

My Onyx is modded with the EQ option set in Pre so that I can use it in the chain...
Fastlane... LOL
I realize the only thing that will give me the SSL sound is approximately 80,000 dollars.. But... LOL Unless you are listening on some Adams or a real audiophile, the plugins are pretty convincing. Even in the insert portion of Nuendo.
Here is the problem with using as an insert in Nuendo. Sound goes in from a Mic Pre staight to the AD/DA convertor with no compression in the chain. This is counter intuitive and doesnt always sound good. So, as a cheap SSL method, you could very well bypass the AD/DA convertor on the Onyx then Line out to the Computer running the SSL4000 plug-ins set on monitor then go to DAW. By using the second computer, there is genuine SSL emulation using psuedo hardware and software when tracking. I did try it and it sound much much better... Ill make a sound clip and post it... Then compare it to a real SSL... There isnt much difference. Although, to be quite honest I still love my UA anyway...

This is interesting.

There will be a difference in the sound by doing it your way. The difference being that you convert it the source sound from A to D with your saffire, then D to A with your saffire, then A to D again with you mackie while it recorded in nuendo and then D to A with you mackie before you hear the sound.
Personally I would think the extra ADDA conversions would deteriorate the original sound adding extra jitter and unnessicary colour.
But if for some reason this makes the sound better to your ears, go for it.
But remember the difference your hearing is the added colour and jitter for an extra ADDA conversion

[danasti]

Originally Posted by fastlane

This is interesting.

Really?

[drakewire]

Uhhh Duende.... Is the same darn thing... An emulation of SSL sound (based on C console) that of course is not really an SSL but a collection of plugz(which actually sounds like a vacuum if you ask me...
When you add the analog function of the Mic pres on the onyx coupled with the second computer you get a very close sound to the actual real thing... There is no real degradation of sound what so ever since the ad/da is going straight to the plug in then back to analog then to digital again... think of it kind of like a UA DA/AD convertor on the fly... But as far as degrading the sound, not at all... If anything the sound is much warmer, clearer and full... If you have two computers and the SSL plug ins try it out before you fault the concept... It does sound freaking awesome...

[FatStudio]

Hay

There is no way you can use a plug in with out using a converter ,if its not the converter on the ONYX its somewhere else.

2nd .If you use a software compressor ,you cant compress before the A/D so there is no point of using it when recording .If you get an overload the compressor will compress the clipped signal.

Digital doesn't have headroom beyond 0db.but...it dos have allot of headroom 144db at 24bit ,you can just record softer and compress it later.

If you do want to print compression as you go ,you can insert the plug in in the input channel of nuendo .

I think if you go through the analogue part of the Mackie you might get its hi mid sound ,which might sound a bit SSLlish.

I would personally not do this as every conversion degrades sound and has to give me something big in return ,going to a good compressor is OK ,I get more then i loose.

Anyway ...whatever works for you is OK ,if you like it use it.


RH