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Helios Type 69...why so quiet?
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#31
1st December 2007
Old 1st December 2007
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
FWIW I had the old desk from Olympic "Studio 2"... the big silver one that said "Olympic Studios" on the amplifier boards as the desk was "pre-Helios" unlike the exact copy of the desk [except for the most disfunctional patchfield known to humans] that was in the Rolling Stones Mobile.

I felt like I had to turn up the 10kHz shelf on just about every channel to get the audio to sit right. I really wasn't a fan of the thing. The modules are all sold now... the frame was broken up [some of it is supporting firewood behind my house]... and while a few of the amplifier boards that say "Olympic" on them are still kicking around for the sake of nostalgia... I can't say that I miss anything about those modules or that desk.

The new stuff could be different... but I didn't care for the Helios desks that came from Island's "Basing St. Studios" either. Could be a matter of taste... could be a matter of fashion.

Peace.

I remember reading on the PSW Helios thread that the general consensus was that the Olympic #2 "pre-Helios" board was a piece of crap. Dick Swettenham built that board as "payment" in return for his design rights developed while employed by Olympic.

Unfortunately that board was the example used by competitors to diminish the Helios brand. It sure must have stung.

Anyhow, the main thing is that UA has turned the Helios type69 into a plug! What more can you hope for to secure your legacy

Truely though, it's a bit of an oddball compared to the most popular pres out there. I wouldn't be honest if I denied that it's resume didn't have something to do with my initial attraction to them. The fact that they were under the radar for so long was a bit of an attraction to me as well - I guess I'm a bit of flake that way.

But that crap wears off after awhile and I can objectively say that it brings something very different to the table than anything else I've ever used.
#32
7th January 2008
Old 7th January 2008
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throw up an LDC > the Type 69

and record some steel string acoustic....

the early zep sound is there... add a little compression and make your eyes bug out.

The only downside for me with the rack version is the need for an external trim to balance the signal It clips easy etc, but manageable.

it is awesome on guitars & bass, the eq is very musical, no harsh or bad sounds

its clear and gentle at the same time, also the sound of the pre that dominates when you have multiple tracks done with it is bliss if your head is in that camp
#33
6th April 2008
Old 6th April 2008
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#34
6th April 2008
Old 6th April 2008
  #34
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#35
7th April 2008
Old 7th April 2008
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funny to visit this old thread..I have since acquired two original 4 band modules .
Still lovin Helios'.NOTHING sounds like 'em


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#36
7th April 2008
Old 7th April 2008
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I actually just sold my two reissues...If I were doing more acoustic stuff at home, I would have kept them. They were fantastic on Acoustic - awesome in the high end with the EQ being subtle. I ultimately decided I liked my BAE 1073 on vocals more - just more thickness and bottom. A while back, I emailed Tony Arnold about the possibility of just putting one module in his Stereo unit. Apparently, he's going to do that and they should be at Vintage King soon. It should cut the cost a bit from having to buy a rack to put them in. I would still guess around $2K though. That's a lot for a single channel, but if people would stop downloading songs for free, I might just have to pick it up again...
#37
7th April 2008
Old 7th April 2008
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You know what Roundbadge - the pair you had were ****ed. I kept meaning to tell you.

Besides the known issue of them being racked wrong by VK's supplier (Valley Audio I believe) R51 not being lifted if faders or trim pots were attached and a 24V supply instead of 32V supply -

The two you had, had the wrong resistor values on R49, R50, and R23. You were really low on headroom due to this - not to mention any tonal changes.
#38
7th April 2008
Old 7th April 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kats View Post
You know what Roundbadge - the pair you had were ****ed. I kept meaning to tell you.

Besides the known issue of them being racked wrong by VK's supplier (Valley Audio I believe) R51 not being lifted if faders or trim pots were attached and a 24V supply instead of 32V supply -

The two you had, had the wrong resistor values on R49, R50, and R23. You were really low on headroom due to this - not to mention any tonal changes.
Wow..Go figureI'll have to rip Jamie's[Valley sound] ear on that...clueless
God knows how many are still out there that have the same prob..
for the kind of money they're charging for this shit[that damn rack and two modules cost me 4350.00] better get it fvcking right.
So the resistors where in the modules or the racking?
I'd love to get all the info from you..thanks
And also why the hell is Tony Arnold selling these things without the proper line stages or info on how to get em racked right?
I'm not gonna spend my life figuring out this stuff.it's the designer/techs/dealers job to figure this shit out before they sell it.

Rant over

So on a good note.How do they sound now?

..
#39
8th April 2008
Old 8th April 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Wow..Go figureI'll have to rip Jamie's[Valley sound]

So on a good note.How do they sound now?

..
The same





Just more headroom on the input. Yours used to distort super quickly if you weren't careful. And they don't close up as fast if your trying to get hotter levels.

Alot of clarity in the mids, no smeary stuff - you know the drill.
#40
8th April 2008
Old 8th April 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kats View Post
The same





Just more headroom on the input. Yours used to distort super quickly if you weren't careful. And they don't close up as fast if your trying to get hotter levels.

Alot of clarity in the mids, no smeary stuff - you know the drill.
thumbsup

..
#41
8th April 2008
Old 8th April 2008
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I've heard the Sowter's just don't have the Lustraphone magic.

#42
8th April 2008
Old 8th April 2008
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Helios 69 ?

So Quiet ?

There not so quiet at all

malice
#43
8th April 2008
Old 8th April 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desol View Post
I've heard the Sowter's just don't have the Lustraphone magic.

Well the old 4 bands I have here have more output than the RI's for sure
sound fvcking great.


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#44
8th April 2008
Old 8th April 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malice View Post
Helios 69 ?

So Quiet ?

There not so quiet at all

malice
The output on the RI's are very low compared to having em in a console[having line amp cards,buss amps etc]
Thats why I don't get why Tony Arnold doesn't get em going with some kinda line amps on the outputs..especially on the 1 ru 2 module version
I personally don't mind throwing an 1176 or whatever after..but the purist's might feel kinda
#45
9th April 2008
Old 9th April 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desol View Post
I've heard the Sowter's just don't have the Lustraphone magic.

I heard the cinemags did :P
#46
9th April 2008
Old 9th April 2008
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Didn't Paulie O try the c-mags and hear no change?



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#47
9th April 2008
Old 9th April 2008
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I recorded/played this with the reissue 69

Wal frettless bass direct

strat>echoplex>dr z, miced with a Lawson MM47II tube LDC

thats all the synth sounding stuff, there arn't any synthesizers...
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#48
9th April 2008
Old 9th April 2008
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Is that what Tony is using in the Re-issue? Cinemag's?

I thought it was the Sowter type...
#49
9th April 2008
Old 9th April 2008
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No no, I was joking. The infamous Firlotte TX that was modded into alot of vintage modules turned out to be a cinemag - still available btw.

The sowter lustraphone TX is fine.

The major problems I believe of the tests at Paul's place was:

1. The PSU was set to 24V instead of 32
2. The rack was wired wrong
3. The modules should have a line amp
4. The RI's are based off the Clapton modules - it would be interesting to know more about them and how they compare.

But IMO, I think they're fine pre's - I love them actually, I have a rack of 8 - Which I bought 4 of *after* hearing the results of the Millbrook shootout.
#50
11th April 2008
Old 11th April 2008
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I'm back from a short break.....although not my choice!

Hey Guys...
Sorry just got back to this thread haven't been around as late...
Had to take a few days off to go have a damn "heart attack".
Who knew?

Anyhow, I'm back in action now!

Ok, so here's the scoop:
I did have Ken McKim change out the Sowters in my reissues, for the Firlotte tranny that we all heard at the listening party last summer, which I personally was very fond of!
(the Firlotte transformer by the way is just a standard Cinemag product, easily purchased)

During our listening party.....I actually thought the modules (Red, Manor Mobile) that had that Firlotte transformer was closest in sonics to the "Lustraphone" equipped modules that everyone flipped over...

So after a week of listening to my customized Firlotte equipped modules over the factory outfitted Sowter modules....I heard (as did approx, 8 other people) no difference at all to speak of at all!
Every time I thought I heard something that was identifiable...I was just fooling myself. And the same was true with all the other people I had give a listen.

NOW, at this time...the power supply was still under powered, and R-51 had not been lifted, so who knows if that would had made a difference???
Needless to say because there was little or no difference, EXCEPT THAT YOU LOST A FEW DB'S OF HEADROOM WITH THE FIRLOTTE TRANNY INSTALLED~!
I had Ken...put everything back to normal.

Now, let me say this, on the manor mobile we noticed that there was another card...
Or gain stage I believe it was....In other words there was something else on that card, that is not on the reissue.
My take on it is....
(and I could be totally wrong?)
BUT,
Whatever that card does in those original modules, made a significant difference to the sound with the "Firlotte / Cinemag" transformer installed then it did on my reissues?

At this point I gotta say...I'm REAL DAMN tired of chasing a sound....
The reissues sound great on their own, period.
Ask anyone who uses them.

Do they sound exactly like the vintage ones?
Who knows, maybe they sound exactly like the module they were moddeled after?
THey could be SONICALLY.....EXACTLY like that one?

All I know is they did sound different then the original ones we tested that weekend!

Now I think...it's time to go make and record some great music.
Which is really the important thing......and forget all this nonsense.
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Paul
www.millbrooksoundstudio.com

A coupla, two, tree, credits
http://www.allmusic.com/artist/paul-...111434/credits
#51
12th April 2008
Old 12th April 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobtwiddler View Post

Now I think...it's time to go make and record some great music.
Which is really the important thing......and forget all this nonsense.
Word Pauliethumbsup
Welcome back.Glad to see your OK brother!


..
#52
12th April 2008
Old 12th April 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobtwiddler View Post
Hey Guys...
Sorry just got back to this thread haven't been around as late...
Had to take a few days off to go have a damn "heart attack".
Who knew?
WOW.... really scary. I am really happy to hear that it sounds like things are okay.

Take it easy man.

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#53
12th April 2008
Old 12th April 2008
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Back, and better then before....

Thanks boys....

On to phase two of my life...whatever that is?
Haha
Not gonna sweat the small stuff anymore!
#54
4th February 2010
Old 4th February 2010
  #54
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AT LAST
It took a long time, but it had to be, and is, spot-on,
The first batch of the new 500 Rack series Classic Helios Type-69's left for Vintage King yesterday.
I have attached a picture of how they look in the Rack, we will also be maufacturing Hi-Shine Black blank 500 series plates of various sizes with the Helios Logo should they be required.
I have also a couple of pics of the Layout.

We hope to have the F760 out before Easter, which we now have the time to fully devote our attention to.

For Pictures go to LINK

Helios Type 69 pre/eq coming in API 500 format!

Best Regards

Tony
#55
4th February 2010
Old 4th February 2010
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bringing back the F760 is a great idea. People need to hear what these sound like when set up properly. Unfortunately many of the original units are so out of whack it's not funny.
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#56
6th January 2011
Old 6th January 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lambro View Post
I recorded/played this with the reissue 69

Wal frettless bass direct

strat>echoplex>dr z, miced with a Lawson MM47II tube LDC

thats all the synth sounding stuff, there arn't any synthesizers...
very cool
#57
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #57
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selling a type69 4channel lunchbox

anyone interested? its in a custom built roadcase, the power supply fits snuggly behind the lunchbox, separated by a piece of hard foam. very neat, its in perfect condition and there are no previous owners. $6k starting. this is the reissue btw
#58
12th April 2012
Old 12th April 2012
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip S Bova View Post
bringing back the F760 is a great idea. People need to hear what these sound like when set up properly. Unfortunately many of the original units are so out of whack it's not funny.
Dear Philip & all,
Sorry about being quite, but the test bench and Ampex Servicing has kept me going, also the finishing of the Helios F760 which I might add is nearly ready.
LINK
Helios F760

Thanks again

Best Regards

Tony
Tony Arnold, (Director)
Helios Electronics Ltd
Home
arny@helios-helios-electronics.com
TRW
#59
12th April 2012
Old 12th April 2012
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobtwiddler View Post
(the Firlotte transformer by the way is just a standard Cinemag product, easily purchased)
Paul, do you know the model number of the Cinemag part?

Cheers Tom
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