Recording a basic mono drum set with 2 high end mics, preamps and compressors

[Jacklynn]

Hey folks,

I'm just doing some brain stroming here and looking to maybe open a few doors and have an awareness of some possible ideas that I may not think of on my own.

I want to record mono drums with the minimal gear I have and I don't think it is unfeasable to achieve really great results with only two mics of extrememly high quality. I wanted to just run this by you folks and see what different suggestions come out of it. I want a sound that breathes so really close micing is not necessary. The room I am recording in is all wood and very alive with a good 1 -
1.5 second(s) of natural reverb.

Here is the gear I want to use to record drums:

AEA R84 ribbon mic

Royer R-122 ribbon mic

Neve Portico 5012 duo mic preamp

Neve Portico 5043 dual compressor

So, working with this gear alone, I would love to hear whar you folks would do? Where exactly would you place the mics and which mics would you put in which locations that you choose around the drum set?
How would you use the Portico stuff...it has a lot of sound shaping options, which ones would you select and what settings would you try?

Thanks a lot guys, for any suggestions!

[joeq]

R 84 over the drummer's shoulder
Royer out front and low, but not too close
I would not use the compressor on the way in for this configuration
I would rather insert it at mixdown, or re-record the tracks through it.

[Jacklynn]

Originally Posted by joeq

R 84 over the drummer's shoulder
Royer out front and low, but not too close
I would not use the compressor on the way in for this configuration
I would rather insert it at mixdown, or re-record the tracks through it.

Great stuff!

Questions:

R84: Which shoulder, right ot left? How high above that shoulder? Aimed at what drum(s) or between what elemetns of the kit?

R-122: How far away from the front of the bass drum head? How high off the floor? Aimed directly at the Bass drum or angled to be in line with the kick and snare center line? Windsceen on this mic?

P.S. do you think this can sound good or just ok???

Thanks!

[allaccess]

This combo will sound great if you have a great drummer and drum kit, and just ok if not...

Which shoulder for the "overhead" depends on what and how the drummer is playing. Too much hi hat? over the drummer's right shoulder. that's the main issue that I've had. If you had 2 AEA mics, put them either side for a nice stereo picture. Just remember that the overhead will most likely be out of phase with the front mic. playing with the position and the angle of this mic, even within inches and degrees of tilt will dramatically change the sound and what the mic is hearing. Really fun if you have time and patience!

For this app, I put the Royer about a foot off the ground angled slightly down, about 3 feet from the kick drum, kind of off to the snare side a little bit. Don't be afraid to use the compressor on the way in if that's the sound you want!

Cheers,

Ryan Hewitt

[joeq]

I used to do this a lot, back when I only had eight tracks but it has been a while, and I didn't have an R84 or a Royer then... I never used a windscreen, but I didn't use ribbons, so...

Originally Posted by Jacklynn

R84: Which shoulder, right ot left? How high above that shoulder? Aimed at what drum(s) or between what elemetns of the kit?

for me, right shoulder and at a height that I could _just reach it with my right hand without swiveling, if that makes any sense. (To me, "over the shoulder" is a good fallback position on almost any instrument.) It depends on the drummer's backswing, too- you might need to raise it more still to avoid an accident.

My first instinct would be to aim it at the kick where the beater hits the skin, then cheat from there.

Originally Posted by Jacklynn

R-122: How far away from the front of the bass drum head? How high off the floor? Aimed directly at the Bass drum or angled to be in line with the kick and snare center line?

the front mic about 3 feet or so in front, lined up with the word Ludwig on the front head (knee high) at first but maybe up or down depending on how the kick comes through. avoid the hole. If the front head is off, I might try a string to measure equal distances to the kick head. Instead of flipping phase, just physically flip one of the figure-8 mics.

I try not to approach the front mic as only a kick mic- cymbal bleed, tom resonant heads, and of course what the back side of the mic picks up from the room all contribute

You need to experiment more when you use fewer mics, because you don't have that "coverage" to compensate for imbalances. play, listen back, cheat.

Originally Posted by Jacklynn

do you think this can sound good or just ok???

I think this can sound really good if you have a good room and you can take the time to try different things (a patient drummer? a 'setup' day? ) The simpler phase relationships can make up the punch you might lose from not having close mics.

[numrologst]

r84 in front of the kit, lawson u47 front of kick through john hardy jensen twin servos or neve copy

[Jacklynn]

Using my Portico 5043 two channel compressor, I was going to compress the overhead and kick/Front of Kick mics on the way in to even out the differnt elements of the kit and make the levels of the toms/snare/cymbals/kick more even and consistent as well as maybe adding a bit of puch and energy to the sound of the kit.

I like to commit to the sound and use the gear during recording to most effectively take advantage of it while freeing it up later for use as my mix buss compressor.

What kinds of compression settings would you use on the single overhead mic and the mic our in front of the Bass Drum?

Ratios
Attack times
Release times
Amount (-dB) of compression

Thanks for any and all suggestions

[Jim Williams]

Why are you tracking drums with a compressor?

You can't un-ring the compression bell.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[seaneldon]

more importantly, keep in mind that this will limit you as to what you can do with drum recordings. for certain styles of music, hanging more than two microphones is overkill, but just never count on doing a "modern rock record" (whatever that is) with that setup.

cheers for ribbon mics, though.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

You can't un-ring the compression bell.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

gnid!

I agree. I don't have a separated control room, and often I am the drummer, so it's pretty much out of the question for me.

I just got a 5043 and I love it, and I can certainly understand why someone would be anxious to 'include' it at every possible opportunity, but sometimes you have to wait. I would take the extra DA/AD hit and 'reamp' your drum tracks later. It's no greater a hit than having a second compressor inserted at mix.

Even with a wall and window, for "2 mics to mono", I would rather spend all of my setup time positioning the mics, and none of my setup time guessing what compressor settings are not going to screw me up come mixdown.

[GPl]

What Joeq says, I would spend more time with the mics. Try different placements and decide what best suits your idea of the ideal sound you are trying to capture in the room you have to work with. Only 2 mics, leave out the comp. You don't want to mess with the dynamic balance here. Multiple mic setup, I might use compression on the room mic. Try the R84 out front, slightly to the kik side and the 122 over left shoulder looking down on the snare. So many combinations depending what you're trying to capture. Put the time in to get mics where they do it for you

[k-soundstudio]

I dont know s**t! but it has always worked for me to listen and move the mics (and listen and move the mics) and listen and..

My first post and in sound like I Know it all! thanks for this site.. I LOVE IT!

[allaccess]

Originally Posted by GroovnD313

A great drummer dosen't need compression to "even out his playing" If he's that sloppy, he shouldn't be recorded.

Ringo anyone? 2 mics, plenty 'o compression. and you could call him sloppy. Maybe he shouldn't have been recorded? Where's that guy who passed on the beatles?

If it's Jazz, certainly no need for compression, but for rock, there's no rules!



Ryan