Guitar Cabinet: How much Sound does the Cab make?

[bernband]

Hallo!

I have a question: Does a rather cheap 4x12er Cabinet loaded with Celestion Vintage 30 have the same sound than a more expensive one (equipped with the same speaker)???

I know that weight it an important thing! Anything else?

http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_bent...2s_vintage.htm (thats the cheap one)

versus

http://www.thomann.de/gb/orange_ppc412.htm
http://www.thomann.de/gb/hugheskettner_cc412_b30.htm
http://www.thomann.de/gb/engl_e412vg_gerade_cabinet.htm
http://www.thomann.de/gb/diezel_d412rc_vintage_30.htm

Regards,
Bernhard

[orange]

quick answer.

the cabinet is VERY important.


si

[nathanvacha]

Indeed.

anytime you have wood (or plywood or particle board) involved in any musical equipment, the wood is going to be extremely important. ...just like the size and shape.

Think of it like an acoustic guitar body where the strings do the vibrating... only the speakers do it here... this is a very crude example, and not physically right... but hope you get the idea.

[Sqye]

Funny Classic Sh*t
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally, in the summer of 1968 I got my first Marshall Stack. I believe it was about $900.

I brought it home to my apartment on the Upper West side of Manhattan, turned everything to 10
and proceeded to deafen my neighborhood.

When I stopped playing I heard a bang at my door.

I figured it was a complaining neighbor. It was.

She said “You son of a bitch, do you know how loud you were?”

I said, “What apartment do you live in?” “She said, “I don’t live in your building.”

I asked, “Where do you live?”

and she said, “I live four blocks away” and I thought to myself,

“My god, I’ve found my SOUND!"

- from an interview with Jay Jay French of Twisted Sister.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
here's the interview:

http://www.twistedsister.com/tqr.php

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
conclusion:

AS LONG AS IT'S LOUD, you should be FINE.



good luck, and have fun deafening the neighborhood

[UXB]

The cabinet makes a huge difference, and build quality does not always translate to sound quality. Besides the air and resonant freq of the cab itself, some cabinets derive part of their sound from the cabinet itself flexing, due to thin/cheap ply. This actually sounds good in some situations. It's hard to predict what the best combination is without trying it out and micing it as well. Perhaps a good starting point would be to consider the amp and what characteristic to best mate with it.

Best,
H

[bernband]

thanks!

does anyone of you know http://www.lopoline.com cabinets?

[Geetar]

It's beyond important, and price is no guide at all.

I use a tall-ish, relatively thin-walled 1x12 from D-C Developments in the UK, with a specially-doped Vintage 30 (Dennis Cornell does some weird shit...) and although it cost me a lot less than a load of my other cabs, its the only one I now use. I'm going to try cloning it at D-C .....hope it works the magic again, but you can't always tell if it will. And the Vintage 30's are themselves variable, to a greater or lesser degree.

All cabs are different. End of story.

[Phrygian]

Extremely important. I just did some tracks and messed around with my different cabs. Each brought a different sound. My vintage Marshall Cab with 30w Celestion Greenbacks changed everything and will now be my go-to cab for the studio.

[orange]

Originally Posted by Phrygian

Extremely important. I just did some tracks and messed around with my different cabs. Each brought a different sound. My vintage Marshall Cab with 30w Celestion Greenbacks changed everything and will now be my go-to cab for the studio.

I love the marshall 4x12 - birch ply (IIRC) when you've got it turned up loud it just "hummmmmms" ....fantastic

[Jack Pettit]

Have you ever played a old fender amp with a pine box
with laquered tweed cloth on it?
Those things are alive!

Avatar makes good cheap speaker boxes
and gives a good deal on speakers

[2leod]

Like they all said...

A friend of mine makes cabs, and he figures most of them now have been compromised in their design for reasons other than what they sound like. All I know is that I'm now hooked on his Yellow Cabs - they sound great to me!

[sethmeister]

There are so many variables that go into speaker cabinets. Dimensions, construction type, wood type and weight, etc etc etc. They make a big difference and a caibnet that slays with one head might not be great with another.

I'd try whatever you're considering buying with your own amp head. It's the only way to go.

[sloanfiske]

a good cabinet brings out the best in the amp and guitar.

imho

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by Jack Pettit

Have you ever played a old fender amp with a pine box
with laquered tweed cloth on it?
Those things are alive!

Avatar makes good cheap speaker boxes
and gives a good deal on speakers

one of my best friends (also a slut) makes custom cabs.

he's made 6 of these types of pine box cabs for me,
in various sizes, and with various sets of speakers in them, including:

mojo tones
hela tones
& eminence legends

they all sound AWESOME

of course my totally restored & slightly modded '66 Princeton Reverb
with an original Jenson in it sounds fr*gg8n UNBELIEVABLE
(also from same slut )

[orange]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

If the drivers are the same, it's all the cabinet. All plywood boxes have a resonance. They sound boxy. Just tap on the side to hear it. This is why I don't use plywood cabinets.

Strange because I LOVE the sound of the resonance - it feels like the amp/cab has become alive. I don't think it sounds boxy at all.


what I DON'T like is loose stuff (like the back) rattling around.

si

[mltamisin]

The cabinet makes a significant difference. I find myself using my Carvin Legacy cab more than my stock Marshall JCM800 cab. The Legacy is an excellent cabinet loaded with Celestion Vintage 30's or Greenbacks or something like that. It's a killer deal. All birch cabinet too.

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by orange

Strange because I LOVE the sound of the resonance - it feels like the amp/cab has become alive. I don't think it sounds boxy at all.
si

It doesn't sound boxy because you haven't heard a cab that's not boxy. Everythings great until you hear something better, I have.

As you become a better player, these things start to get in the way.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[woofty wooft]

hi...
I own many many cabs and speakers
cab makes a big difference if it'S closed back....
open back is an other story you have to use the wall
behind for bass response


cheak what celestion have to say about it

http://professional.celestion.com/gu...ibel/index.asp

select cabinet design

i hope i can post an URL here if not sorry

keep in mind that a guitar tone is a combination of element

a plexi is a good amp and an alnico blue a too nice to be true speaker
but not a good match would be better in a clean ampeg or an AC30

Woofty

[orange]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

It doesn't sound boxy because you haven't heard a cab that's not boxy. Everythings great until you hear something better, I have.

As you become a better player, these things start to get in the way.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

ouch !!!!

I've quite a collection of different vintage and modern guitar cabs/combos fender/mesaboogie/marshall/vox open/closed backs. I like the sound of a marshall 4x12 the most - I enjoy the resonance, the sound of the cabinet.

I'm of the opinon that an electric guitar is not a hi-fi device - it's a grungy, lo-fi thing. Organic with a peaky frequency response. In fact I quite enjoy the sound of a guitar through a 'fixed' wah-wah pedal (think Ziggy Stardust). I wouldn't want a neutral sounding cabinet.

I don't think it has anything to do with how good a guitar player I am. I think it might be that your taste is different - Taste is rarely a matter of "better" or "worse".

As you become a better player you might realise that too !

[GPl]

Originally Posted by 2leod

Like they all said...

A friend of mine makes cabs, and he figures most of them now have been compromised in their design for reasons other than what they sound like. All I know is that I'm now hooked on his Yellow Cabs - they sound great to me!

Hope they announce retail locations out this way soon.

[andychamp]

I've heard of people removing the stiffening piece of wood connecting the front and back boards on 4x12 cabs, to actually increase the resonance.

[cdog]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

It doesn't sound boxy because you haven't heard a cab that's not boxy. Everythings great until you hear something better, I have.

As you become a better player, these things start to get in the way.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Yup, thats why Jimi killed himself, all those crappy wooden marshall cabs kept "getting in the way" of his music.

[gtichy]

I've found that specifically the baffle makes more of a difference than the rest of the cabinet...I have a VERY expensive boutique amp where no expense was spared. The amp was originally a prototype, and wasn't quite as lively as my firend's later model. I called the company to find out they had originally OVER-built the cabinet, and modified it later in production.

Bottom line - if it sounds good, it is good. I have '50's Magnatone Maestro 150 that is the most oddly constructed (but detailed) thing you're ever seen. This thing sings, and I have no idea why!! The amp cost me $400...

[gtichy]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

If the drivers are the same, it's all the cabinet. All plywood boxes have a resonance. They sound boxy. Just tap on the side to hear it. This is why I don't use plywood cabinets.

I use the Basson Sound cabinets made with super high density material. Tap on them, no rings, no resonance. They have a very smooth, tight sound, never a buzz or rattle, ever, even on "11". Musician's Friend is selling them pretty cheap, around $550.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

The Basson cabinets are VERY well made, but I think lacked character. It all depends on what sound you are "going for". Guys like Link Wray prefered the sound of broken gear!

[TheSweetener]

This might answer the original question.
Check this out:
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/s...86#post5358486

[faeflora]

I have some pretty nice cabs-

Trace Elliott 4x12 Bass Cab used with many different kinds of speakers including vintage 30s, 50, both guitar and bass. I have two. These are some awesome cabs. They are probably have the tightest sound of any cab I've used.

Basson 480 watt- I haven't tried recording these. very tight also, and very clear.

mesa black shadow cabs- scratchy and trebly

sunn 6x10 bass cab- verrry nice and smooth guitar sound. never used with bass. never recorded with

marshall 4x12 jcm800 style i think- blehhhhh sounds like it's farting

[DeepSpace]

Originally Posted by orange

I've quite a collection of different vintage and modern guitar cabs/combos fender/mesaboogie/marshall/vox open/closed backs. I like the sound of a marshall 4x12 the most - I enjoy the resonance, the sound of the cabinet.

I agree with you. I have played through about a dozen different cabs and I find the MDF and Basson and the like lack character and life. The starkest demonstration of this was a couple of years ago when I had two Marshall cabs in the studio - one recent and one older but both recently fitted with new Vintage 30 drivers. The newer cab was MDF and the old one was ply.

It would be no exaggeration to say that the older cab sounded radically better. It sparkled and sang and gave the notes definition, punch and character.

[neve1073]

the cab is a huge part of the sound you will get. and so is the room the cabinet is in.

[orange]

Originally Posted by DarkSky

The starkest demonstration of this was a couple of years ago when I had two Marshall cabs in the studio - one recent and one older but both recently fitted with new Vintage 30 drivers. The newer cab was MDF and the old one was ply.

I didn't know that marshall had started using MDF for speaker cabs - more cost cutting I assume - what a shame.

Worth noting that you can pickup old 4x12 for next to nothing on ebay.

[George Necola]

the Marshall 1960cabs sounds like shit, compared to our new LABOGA-premiumcabs we are using all the time now.

the Laboga cab is with V30 and the weight is about 47 kilos. real heavy, really good

www.labogaamps.com