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So what is the best cloned 1073 out there that gives the original a real run?
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#31
25th July 2013
Old 25th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_T View Post
Hi

I never understand this top grade component deal associated with Neve.

They didn't buy components because they were top grade - they bought them because they were cheap and suffered sometimes as a consequence - particularly leaky electrolytic capacitors.

I don't think de-oxygenated copper wire was used until the 8078 predecessor made for Sony in Japan that also had extra thick gold plating on the switches.

This was not the norm.

Posted from my iPhone
No no...it's good to hear this distinction from someone who would know Geoff. I'm wondering if I should post the one video I'm thinking of in particular. Or if I should just let this go at this point.
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#32
25th July 2013
Old 25th July 2013
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Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I'm planning on demoing the Fox back to back with an AMS Neve 1073 from Audio Chocolate over here....also have a pair of GAP73s to compare....should be interesting!

Another nod to the Fox.
Slates transformers are great!!..Used them alongside vintage 1084's...had 'that' sound to em....All sounded great!
Fox is a KILLER box !!
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#33
25th July 2013
Old 25th July 2013
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Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
No no...it's good to hear this distinction from someone who would know Geoff. I'm wondering if I should post the one video I'm thinking of in particular. Or if I should just let this go at this point.
Hi

Feel free to post a link to it... I'd like to see who this Neve genius is

I have a list of Neve employees on my site....

Posted from my iPhone
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#34
25th July 2013
Old 25th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_T View Post
Hi

Feel free to post a link to it... I'd like to see who this Neve genius is

I have a list of Neve employees on my site....

Posted from my iPhone
Here you go, Geoff:

In this corner we have BAE, and in this corner we have Geoff...........The battle of the silver solder! Ding!....Ding!....Ding!

"This is better than Mayweather and Pacquiao!"
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#35
25th July 2013
Old 25th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YRLK View Post
I can't tell you which of the 1073 clones is the closest... I'm sure the BAE stuff is good as I've heard material recorded through them, and I've heard several original 1073's and 1066's, and even those sounded a bit different to my ears.

What I can tell you is that none of these slight variations change one's ability to make great music.

And I'll tell you that while I've enjoyed hearing/using the originals, the MA5's, the 1073LB, several Vintech units, and especially my Aurora GTQ-2 MK3 work just fine. Not to plug it, but to make a point: the GTQ is probably the closest to a true "Neve" variety that I own, due to Geoff's Neve OCD, and personally, I never feel like I'm missing anything.

Not missing anything due to a preamp, anyway! =)
Just my opinion but the Vintech x73 and the 1073lb or n models are in a completely different league. There was little to no similarity between the two. side by side the Vintech pales by comparison. I don't follow the marketing hype of clone rhetorics, you'd have to have cloth ears not to hear the difference...Neve, daking,slate are my personal preferences (for now)..., for me personally, the savings $$ wise between the 2, impacts an outcome too greatly and is a compromise I no longer wish to live through.

Sent from my XT925
#36
25th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madehumble View Post
Here you go, Geoff:

In this corner we have BAE, and in this corner we have Geoff...........The battle of the silver solder! Ding!....Ding!....Ding!

"This is better than Mayweather and Pacquiao!"
Yeah if you watch that video they mention silver soldier no less than three times.

Also there are other videos like this.
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#37
25th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
Yeah if you watch that video they mention silver soldier no less than three times.

Also there are other videos like this.
I know one thing for sure the BAE pres are built like tanks and are quality throughout. Not saying Geoff's is not because his build is excellent also. I just think that the BAE pres are top of the line also.

Sent from Galaxy Note 2
#38
25th July 2013
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Originally Posted by madehumble View Post
I know one thing for sure the BAE pres are built like tanks and are quality throughout. Not saying Geoff's is not because his build is excellent also. I just think that the BAE pres are top of the line also.

Sent from Galaxy Note 2
Yeah, no question the build quality is excellent...it's the discrepancy about the authenticity of the components and building techniques. THAT's what makes this a bit uncomfortable.
#39
25th July 2013
Old 25th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
Long time Avalon 737 owner and am looking to acquire that more musically coloured sound with an additional preamp, especially since that's what current hip hop records seem to all be running through as well and I track a lot of hip hop artists.

I should mention that the primary mic for running vocals through is the U87.

I was pretty set with the BAE 1073mp, but after a little more searching around it seems like there's tons of options.

X73i by Vintech
7602 by Chameleon (fully modded by Zen Pro)
Neve's 1073lb
Neve's 1073dpa (is this worth the extra 2 grand over the LB version?)

Another option I've seen is the Avedis MA5, but I'm a little worried that the combination of a U87 through it might be too 'bright'.

I'm sure there are others worth mentioning as well, so I'm hoping you guys can shed some light and experience with all of these and can come to some verdicts of which one really stands up true to an original 1073.

Thanks in advance guys.
brent averill and neve/ams are popular. the jlm audio neve clone is great. some people favor the isa-110/focusrite red range over the 1073 at times.
#40
25th July 2013
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I'm certainly no expert but I recall reading NEVE only switched to silver recently-ish to comply with RoHS manufacturing requirements and, at least at first, this led to some horrible soldering on their gear. Reports of wiring literally lifting out as a whole, PSU issues etc.

To the OP's question: as a biased person (own a GTP8 from Geoff and would buy a 4 channel tomorrow if one existed) I'd absolutely recommend you check them out. I do really like my BAE and MA5s but, then again, I've sold off channels of both of those while craving 4 more GTP (Geoff, see how I brought that idea back? Hint-hint
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#41
25th July 2013
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Well at the moment I'm seeking preamp specifically, not EQ modules attached to it - I have other equipment that handles my analog EQ needs. I'm just looking for the best 1073 type-ish preamp for my setup, what's going to give me that clean silky smooth but coloured sound that's not in a 'dirty way'.

Kind of shooting out towards the MA5 or the BAE 1073mp. If I get the MA5 I'll have to buy a rack unit for it, so price wise it'll even out to be about the same either way I go. Just want to know which one is less harsh, has that silky smooth but fat sound without any 'dirt'.
#42
25th July 2013
Old 25th July 2013
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I think the whole silver thing has grown in popularity as a "hifi" audio thing. Silver cables, silver solder, etc. I mean sure, the laws of nature say that silver is the best conductor of electricity out there, but.... whatever. haha.

That being said, BAE gets my vote. The 1073s I've worked with all sounded slightly different from each other, and if the BAE was thrown in, I wouldn't have known any different, I would have thought it was a vintage Neve. So for that reason, If I had to pick the one that sounds the most "like the original" I would have to say BAE. Good thing is, BAE pairs sound very well matched, so you DON'T have to worry about finding a pair that works. The EQ on the vintage Neve is a bit more defined IMO, but the BAE EQ is still really nice. I don't feel like I'm missing anything when using any of the BAE stuff.

Heritage, AML, and Aurora also get a nod - all VERY good sounding units. Geoff, I know you don't like to be roped in to the "Neve clone" category, but nevertheless, your preamps sound amazing, and give off a sound that is just so right - Neve or not!

I can also say from personal experience that BAE, AML, Aurora, and Heritage are way higher in my book than Vintech. Sure, Vintech makes a great pre, and it's better than a LOT of stuff out there, but compared side by side to AML or BAE...it's not nearly as good. And this is from owning these units, not just hearing shootouts online!

Never used a Fox, but nothing Slate has ever made has disappointed me.
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#43
25th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
Well at the moment I'm seeking preamp specifically, not EQ modules attached to it - I have other equipment that handles my analog EQ needs. I'm just looking for the best 1073 type-ish preamp for my setup, what's going to give me that clean silky smooth but coloured sound that's not in a 'dirty way'.

Kind of shooting out towards the MA5 or the BAE 1073mp. If I get the MA5 I'll have to buy a rack unit for it, so price wise it'll even out to be about the same either way I go. Just want to know which one is less harsh, has that silky smooth but fat sound without any 'dirt'.
For my part, the AMS Neve is the obvious suggestion however one might, having acquired a 1073 , may find a box like the Slate Fox offers one the opportunity to explore similar to variances in the same class as the 1073 and more..., none of these wonderful machines sound like a vintage 1971 ish 1073, they are each into themselves . The Slate is too impressive to not give shot to. Daking 5227 is a big bottomed crystal clear musical preamp, to me unlike a Neve but your descriptive requirements suggest it may be another option as well, the -20 pad is awesome, hpf
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#44
25th July 2013
Old 25th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneHall View Post
For my part, the AMS Neve is the obvious suggestion however one might, having acquired a 1073 , may find a box like the Slate Fox offers one the opportunity to explore similar to variances in the same class as the 1073 and more..., none of these wonderful machines sound like a vintage 1971 ish 1073, they are each into themselves . The Slate is too impressive to not give shot to. Daking 5227 is a big bottomed crystal clear musical preamp, to me unlike a Neve but your descriptive requirements suggest it may be another option as well, the -20 pad is awesome, hpf
Sent from my XT925
... Continued ....the hpf is2nd to none.
The Fox though, offers all the above and more, but as the others, unique properties in each make them special and into themselves...have fun shopping and let us all know how you get on with your shopping!!

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#45
25th July 2013
Old 25th July 2013
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Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
Really looking for that 1073 sound with the added fattening/thickening of a sound but silky smooth at the same time if you catch my drift.
That description sounds like my vocal chain: U87ai to Great River ME-1NV to FMR PBC-6A. Never sell a Great River! Good luck with your hunt, though, seriously - it can be tough sometimes to find exactly what you hear in your head.
#46
25th July 2013
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Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
Really?!?!

Huh...so the silver soldier bit is just marketing hype on the part of BAE?
Maybe it's their added improvement.. not sure if they said that Neve did it..
I don't think BAE would do that either.
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25th July 2013
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#48
25th July 2013
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I knwo they were maligned alot for Shoddy customer service etc and I'm certainly not one to disgree ont hat front but...

My SHEP's with NOS marinairre transformers, were every bit as good as the OG 1073 in the console i worlked on or other 1066/64/70/76/81 modules that had been racked *properly*.

Bonus was the additional band of EQ which made the SN8 into a Class A 1073 preamp with 1081 EQ that covered 90% of my EQ duties.

If you dont care as much about re-sale and DO care about sound and price then these will still be my go to over anthing else.

Wiggy
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#49
25th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etrella View Post
Going to switch from an Avedis ma5 to this

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...es-module.html
I personally wouldn't, the MA5 is a work of art and an incredible tool in my arsenal.. I could not change it for anything else..but I guess everyone it's different..

(btw the MA5 is NOT a 1073 clone, even if it shares that topology and therefore the family sound..)

good luck with your chase



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#50
25th July 2013
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and what about the Shadow Hills Mic Pre with the Iron Mode ...is as good as the BAE? and does represents the Neve sound???
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#51
25th July 2013
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Oh man you guys make things difficult, haha.

Digibird - sadly I used to own this preamp at one time, before I had a high end mic however.
#52
25th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
Well at the moment I'm seeking preamp specifically, not EQ modules attached to it - I have other equipment that handles my analog EQ needs. I'm just looking for the best 1073 type-ish preamp for my setup, what's going to give me that clean silky smooth but coloured sound that's not in a 'dirty way'.

Kind of shooting out towards the MA5 or the BAE 1073mp. If I get the MA5 I'll have to buy a rack unit for it, so price wise it'll even out to be about the same either way I go. Just want to know which one is less harsh, has that silky smooth but fat sound without any 'dirt'.
Hey Dizzy,
the best thing you could do is to ask your dealer to send you the MA5 and the BAE and then decide.. your ears will be the judge..

The MA5 is more "detailed" (while retaining the sweetness), the BAE IMHO is somehow "softer" ...

BAE is intended to be a clone, the MA5 is not, is Avedis take on that topology, it's his design.. he really went deep (very deep) designing the MA5 but was never meant to be a clone.

it's hard to describe sonics sometimes (and it's also quite personal)..

None of these two preamps is harsh, by any mean.. reading what you're looking for you might favor the BAE though..
both of these are excellent pieces, very well made, you can't go wrong with these two!

Aurora Audio also makes excellent stuff, which shares that family sound without being a clone, but probably out of your budget, because of the 2 channel unit (I guess..).

<<<<< (fwiw below my avatar there's the link to my MA5 review, in the GS review section).

I hope this helps,



Cheu
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25th July 2013
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Hey cheu,

That's interesting actually, as I was on the phone for over an hour with the man himself and he described the BAE as the unit that had a top end 'sparkle' that the MA5 didn't, that the MA5 maybe has a bit more low end detail than the BAE however. He described the the MA5 to have a 'roll off' feeling to it on both ends of the spectrum, and not a 'fast' preamp - but has a more equal phase between the two. Also, he stated he was a prime roll in the build of the BAE 1023, which has the same pre as the 1073mp (which he does not like the 1073 choice in naming by BAE). So with that said I feel a bit more thrown off, ha.

Both units will cost about the same as I'll have to buy a rack unit or lunchbox for the MA5, which will even out to the cost of the BAE 1073mp w/ PSU that can drop right into my existing rack. Whatever has that smoother silkier less punchy sound is what I'm going for.
#54
25th July 2013
Old 25th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
Hey cheu,

That's interesting actually, as I was on the phone for over an hour with the man himself and he described the BAE as the unit that had a top end 'sparkle' that the MA5 didn't, that the MA5 maybe has a bit more low end detail than the BAE however. He described the the MA5 to have a 'roll off' feeling to it on both ends of the spectrum, and not a 'fast' preamp - but has a more equal phase between the two. Also, he stated he was a prime roll in the build of the BAE 1023, which has the same pre as the 1073mp (which he does not like the 1073 choice in naming by BAE). So with that said I feel a bit more thrown off, ha.

Both units will cost about the same as I'll have to buy a rack unit or lunchbox for the MA5, which will even out to the cost of the BAE 1073mp w/ PSU that can drop right into my existing rack. Whatever has that smoother silkier less punchy sound is what I'm going for.
Bright and sparkly for hip vocals is perfect (if that's what you're doing) then I would definitely go for the BAE. I've tracked on several of them, I can guarantee you that you will not be disappointed, and if you are then send it back. Simple as that.
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Also make sure whatever pre you get has a output trim because if your doing hip hop vocals you're gonna want to be able to push that transformer without blowing your converters
#56
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Originally Posted by herecomesyourman View Post
Yeah if you watch that video they mention silver soldier no less than three times.

Also there are other videos like this.
It's spelled "Solder" .

And silver solder is something manufacturers use after RoHS was put in place to comply to an environmental standard. I cant imagine any of them wouldn't prefer to use standard tin/lead solder for other than marketing purposes, but maybe thats just me.

Silver Pads on PCBs can be quite nice to work with though.

Gustav
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#58
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Hey Aaron,

Would you say the bright and sparkly would also work real nice with the type of chorus's I do? I sing the majority of my chorus's, think Three Days Grace/Linkin Park/Hollywood Undead.
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Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
Hey Aaron,

Would you say the bright and sparkly would also work real nice with the type of chorus's I do? I sing the majority of my chorus's, think Three Days Grace/Linkin Park/Hollywood Undead.
Definitely not too bright especially for modern pop kinda stuff. The U87 is a pretty neutral mic, not very hyped so a bright pre would actually be a good thing. Allot of engineers are using much brighter mics into the BAE like a Sony C800G or a C12

However, everyone's voice is different so I can't say there's a special go too chain that works on everyone but you really can't go wrong with a BAE pre. If its too bright change the mic.

Aaron
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Considering coling from aml used to work for neve they are my next major diy undertaking (after my stereo ua175 vari mu is complete) are 2 x ez1073. For 2 x 1 u full 1073 mic pre and eq section with top current parts (carnhill in and out) for 365£ - which equates to around $600 for a full 1073 (gotta build it yourself though) is extraordinary really.
Even of diy is not your thi g everyone would know someone how would build them for a slab or two of beer....!!!
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